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  • #16
    Originally posted by 100%Broncoholic View Post
    Ill trade that winning percentage for the two Super Bowl Titles the Broncos won with JOHN ELWAY.

    When I think Broncos (Which is all the time) I think Elway. He is who I grew up and went through ups and downs.

    Give me a break plummer is no elway and besides Elway could have quit plenty of times, but he didn't he stayed with it.
    on his defense he never said that plummer was the next elway or anything. i'm pretty sure he was just pointing out the fact that elway had a pretty darn good winning percentage and plummer was slightly better. plummer may not have taken us all the way, but he knows how to win
    disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

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    • #17
      Originally posted by 100%Broncoholic View Post
      Ill trade that winning percentage for the two Super Bowl Titles the Broncos won with JOHN ELWAY.

      When I think Broncos (Which is all the time) I think Elway. He is who I grew up and went through ups and downs.

      Give me a break plummer is no elway and besides Elway could have quit plenty of times, but he didn't he stayed with it.
      I don't think he was comparing Jake to John. He was just saying that Jake had a good win %.

      And I don't think it's fare to judge Jake to Jay. Different teams, different competition, different playing styles. Not to mention one was a veteran that played most of his career on a crappy team and the other is still young.

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      • #18
        OK, I'm not going to let this turn into a Jay Cutler thread. I'll make one last response....

        Originally posted by japfaff View Post
        Ok fair enough but in 06 Cutler was 2-3 with the same team Jake Went 7-4 with. Plus Jake played agianst better teams.
        The Broncos were 2-3 over Jake's last 5 starts before being benched. Jay went 2-3 over his 5 starts.

        The opposing teams for Jake were 91-69 (.568) and Jay was 43-37 (.537). Not a significant difference. However, since you mentioned "tougher" competition, Jake was a mediocre 4-4 against teams with a .500 record or better. Jay was 1-2. Again, not a significant difference.

        One more thought. Jay was a ROOKIE in his 5 games. Jake was a 10 year veteran. Considering those facts, Jay did better than Jake.

        By the way, Jay set an NFL record when he threw 2 TDs in each of his first 4 starts.

        07...Cutler took basically the same team to a setllar record of 7-9.
        If nothing else shows your lack of knowledge on the subject, this does. Jay had new WRs, a new RB, new FB and a makeshift O-line. The 2007 team was NOTHING like the 2006 team. To say otherwise is pure homerism, nothing more.

        Jake passed for 4000 yards in a season.... Cutler hasn't
        Give me a break. Jake did that in his 8th year in the league. Jay has played barely over 1. How about comparing apples to apples.

        Jake's had 27 TD's in a season....Cutler 20
        Same thing. It was Jake's 8th season. By the way, Jake has thrown 20 or more INTS in a season 5 of his 10 seasons in the league. Jay NEVER has. See, you can't pull one season out and say it's an equal comparison.

        Plummer's career rating is 88.1.....Cutler 87.2 (that was just last year...not sure about rookie year)
        Jay's career rating is 88.2. I guess that means he's better, even though it's only based on 21 games. /sarcasm

        So yeah I guess you are right Jake sucks.....But what does that say about Cutler? How is he better?
        Well, Jay's playing football and Jake is playing with himself.

        This is Jakes 3rd year stats in this offense... 14-4 record. AFC Championship apperence, 3366 yards, 18 TD's, 7 INT, 90.2 Rating
        So if he sucks...Jay should easly surpass all these stats. Keep in mind these stats were with a team with 2000+ yards rushing and 20 rushing TD's

        Face the fact....Jake was a better QB through 2 years in the offense
        No he isn't, and I've proven the point. Jake's first 2 years with the Broncos were his 7th and 8th year in the league. Jay was a rookie. Jake had 32 games in those two years, Jay had 21.

        Now, back on topic.....

        Jake sucked and I'm glad we won't need to hear from him anymore. It was worth $3.5 million to get rid of him.

        sigpic

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        • #19
          Originally posted by broncos_mtnman View Post
          OK, I'm not going to let this turn into a Jay Cutler thread. I'll make one last response....



          The Broncos were 2-3 over Jake's last 5 starts before being benched. Jay went 2-3 over his 5 starts.

          The opposing teams for Jake were 91-69 (.568) and Jay was 43-37 (.537). Not a significant difference. However, since you mentioned "tougher" competition, Jake was a mediocre 4-4 against teams with a .500 record or better. Jay was 1-2. Again, not a significant difference.

          One more thought. Jay was a ROOKIE in his 5 games. Jake was a 10 year veteran. Considering those facts, Jay did better than Jake.

          By the way, Jay set an NFL record when he threw 2 TDs in each of his first 4 starts.



          If nothing else shows your lack of knowledge on the subject, this does. Jay had new WRs, a new RB, new FB and a makeshift O-line. The 2007 team was NOTHING like the 2006 team. To say otherwise is pure homerism, nothing more.



          Give me a break. Jake did that in his 8th year in the league. Jay has played barely over 1. How about comparing apples to apples.



          Same thing. It was Jake's 8th season. By the way, Jake has thrown 20 or more INTS in a season 5 of his 10 seasons in the league. Jay NEVER has. See, you can't pull one season out and say it's an equal comparison.



          Jay's career rating is 88.2. I guess that means he's better, even though it's only based on 21 games. /sarcasm



          Well, Jay's playing football and Jake is playing with himself.



          No he isn't, and I've proven the point. Jake's first 2 years with the Broncos were his 7th and 8th year in the league. Jay was a rookie. Jake had 32 games in those two years, Jay had 21.

          Now, back on topic.....

          Jake sucked and I'm glad we won't need to hear from him anymore. It was worth $3.5 million to get rid of him.

          All these stats with no big difference according to you.....first off a 30% winning percentage difference is a lot. Second the difference between 1-2 and 4-4 is a lot.
          But lets compare apples to apples. Jake lead the Cardinals...let me say that one more time just so it sinks in.....Jake lead the Cardinals to the playoffs in his first season as a starter (which for all you scoring at home would be his second in the league). Not only did he make the playoffs with one of the worse franshises in NFL history, he went into Dallas and schooled the Boyz. SO with all your rambaling you haven't shown me one thing that would make me feel that Jake sucks. The fact is he ran the offense better than Jay. I understand that jay is in his second year. I also dont think that Jake was a great QB, but he was a damn good QB for us, he has done more and played better for us than Jay has up to this point, and he doesn't deserve to have people say he sucked.

          One last thing about how much the guy sucked. He always helped Jay after and during practice. When Jake lost his starting job to Jay what did he do. He spent extra time with him. Listen to jay talk about what Jake taught him. He never bad mouthed the Coaches, team or even Jay. He was professional until the end. For us the guy was the epitome of class. He deserves to be treated better than you are treating him
          Last edited by japfaff; 06-11-2008, 07:48 PM.
          Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

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          • #20
            Originally posted by 100%Broncoholic View Post
            Ill trade that winning percentage for the two Super Bowl Titles the Broncos won with JOHN ELWAY.

            When I think Broncos (Which is all the time) I think Elway. He is who I grew up and went through ups and downs.

            Give me a break plummer is no elway and besides Elway could have quit plenty of times, but he didn't he stayed with it.

            Oh hell no I dont think Jake belongs in the same sentance when you compare the to. I was just stating that Jake was a really good QB for us, and he doesn't deserve to have people say that he sucks
            Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

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            • #21
              Originally posted by broncos_mtnman View Post
              Plummer sucked.

              It was worth $3.5 million to get rid of him.

              Plummer made some bad plays but he also made incredible throws. He led us to the AFC championship where he played with a severe case of the FLU. I think he played fairly well for being sick. If we had won that game and gone on to the SB everyone would be saying what a great QB he was.
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Not to risk the Plummer vs. Cutler wars again...
                Originally posted by japfaff View Post
                You can say a lot of things but you cant say he sucked. He led us to the playoffs in all three years, and his winning percentage was higher than Elways.
                The TEAM'S winning percentage was higher but that doesn't mean Plummer was the better QB. Are you saying Plummer was better than Elway?


                You may like Cutler but right now he isn't a better QB than Plummer was for us. Just look at the stats, and the wins
                Look at the stats? If that's how you're going to base your judgement, you just proved yourself wrong (and keep in mind Cutler's lack of a good offensive line, good running backs, and a defense to keep the offense from playing from behind all the time, and he also just finished his 2nd season):

                Cutler's stats in Denver:
                62.6% completions, 7.44 yards per attempt, 1.38 TD per game, 0.90 INT per game, 88.2 passer rating, 4.0 rushing average

                Plummer's stats in Denver:
                59.1% completions, 7.28 yards per attempt, 1.31 TD per game, 0.87 INT per game, 84.3 passer rating, 3.7 rushing average

                And again consider:

                Cutler was in his rookie and 2nd years compared to Plummer being in his 7th - 10th seasons.

                Cutler played a good chunk of his second year with undiagnosed diabetes.

                Cutler has had a lack of good running backs and a good offensive line in front of him. Plummer had much better running backs and O-lines.

                Cutler had a crappy defense that kept him playing from behind in most games, which means defenses can tee off on him. Plummer had much better defenses (although admittedly not GREAT defenses, just a lot better than Jay's).

                The Broncos won despite mediocre play from Plummer. The Broncos are losing in spite of very good play by Cutler. It's a team game and the whole overcomes the individual, in most cases.

                I would take Cutler going into his 3rd season, without a doubt, over Plummer at any point in his career. And I actually LIKED Plummer!
                "You can't take the sky from me..."
                ------
                "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by japfaff View Post
                  You can say a lot of things but you cant say he sucked. He led us to the playoffs in all three years, and his winning percentage was higher than Elways. You may like Cutler but right now he isn't a better QB than Plummer was for us. Just look at the stats, and the wins
                  You're only telling part of the story. Statistically he was one of the worst two or three starting quarterbacks in the league the last year he played.

                  Look, I'm from the same area as Plummer, and I have no interest in dogging on him. He did win some games, and had one really good stastical year, but on that subject I have a point to make:

                  Anyone can make a ferrari go fast. The question is, do you wreck it at high speeds? Plummer had some play makers around him during their best year at 13-3. I would guess that atleast half of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL could have had an equally impressive stastical year under the system with the playmakers that Plummer had the year he went to the Pro Bowl (as an alternate).

                  I think Griese actually had a higher quarterback rating during his career in Denver than Plummer did.
                  sigpic
                  Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                    Plummer made some bad plays but he also made incredible throws. He led us to the AFC championship where he played with a severe case of the FLU. I think he played fairly well for being sick. If we had won that game and gone on to the SB everyone would be saying what a great QB he was.
                    Of course, but that didn't happen, did it?
                    sigpic
                    Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Javalon View Post
                      Not to risk the Plummer vs. Cutler wars again...

                      The TEAM'S winning percentage was higher but that doesn't mean Plummer was the better QB. Are you saying Plummer was better than Elway?




                      Look at the stats? If that's how you're going to base your judgement, you just proved yourself wrong (and keep in mind Cutler's lack of a good offensive line, good running backs, and a defense to keep the offense from playing from behind all the time, and he also just finished his 2nd season):

                      Cutler's stats in Denver:
                      62.6% completions, 7.44 yards per attempt, 1.38 TD per game, 0.90 INT per game, 88.2 passer rating, 4.0 rushing average

                      Plummer's stats in Denver:
                      59.1% completions, 7.28 yards per attempt, 1.31 TD per game, 0.87 INT per game, 84.3 passer rating, 3.7 rushing average

                      And again consider:

                      Cutler was in his rookie and 2nd years compared to Plummer being in his 7th - 10th seasons.

                      Cutler played a good chunk of his second year with undiagnosed diabetes.

                      Cutler has had a lack of good running backs and a good offensive line in front of him. Plummer had much better running backs and O-lines.

                      Cutler had a crappy defense that kept him playing from behind in most games, which means defenses can tee off on him. Plummer had much better defenses (although admittedly not GREAT defenses, just a lot better than Jay's).

                      The Broncos won despite mediocre play from Plummer. The Broncos are losing in spite of very good play by Cutler. It's a team game and the whole overcomes the individual, in most cases.

                      I would take Cutler going into his 3rd season, without a doubt, over Plummer at any point in his career. And I actually LIKED Plummer!
                      The whole fact that Jake defense was better than Jays works agianst him statistically cause when Denver gets up in games they like to run the hell out of the ball. MOre running less passing. Where last year Jay did nothing but pass the entire second half cause they were alway losing...
                      I will give you the difference in the defense was termendious. But the offenses are quite similar. Smith at 35 and Lelie or Marshall and Walker. I would take B Marshal and Walker. Throw in Stokley it is a no brainer. RB's Anderson and Bell vs. Henry and Young... I like who plummer had
                      TE.. Gram and Schefler in a walk. Sharpe was way past his prime when he came back... The line wasn't great either time. Plummer was able to hide the flaws cause he was really good at selling the play action. There wasn't a lot of difference in the offense... Plummer ran the team better than Jay has to this point.

                      I agree I love Cutler going into his 3rd season. I am just sick of the Jake bashing. We made the play offs every year with Jake and we would have made it in 06. Jay has yet to be a QB with a winning record. Will he be one this year...Maybe Is he going to be a great QB...Maybe Does he have potential...absolutly But the fact of the matter is that jake ran our offense better. If wins are the most important stat, than you cant argue that fact. If passing yards is your thing than you cant argue it. WIth the exception of the Pitt game, and the colts in the playoffs (I know they are big ones), Jake as played his best agianst the Chargers, Chiefs (can you believe they used to be good), the Ravens, and the Pats, he also help his own agianst the colts (until the playoffs). How many teams with a winning record has Jay beaten? I dont think to many. I only remember Pitt and Tenn.
                      Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
                        You're only telling part of the story. Statistically he was one of the worst two or three starting quarterbacks in the league the last year he played.

                        Look, I'm from the same area as Plummer, and I have no interest in dogging on him. He did win some games, and had one really good stastical year, but on that subject I have a point to make:

                        Anyone can make a ferrari go fast. The question is, do you wreck it at high speeds? Plummer had some play makers around him during their best year at 13-3. I would guess that atleast half of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL could have had an equally impressive stastical year under the system with the playmakers that Plummer had the year he went to the Pro Bowl (as an alternate).

                        I think Griese actually had a higher quarterback rating during his career in Denver than Plummer did.
                        Who did he have?? a 35 year old Smith, Ashley Lelie, Mike Anderson, and Tatum Bell...... Is that better than Marshall, Stokley, Walker, Henry, and Schefler
                        Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

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                        • #27
                          All I am saying is give the guy the credit that he not only deserves, but he earned on the field
                          Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

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                          • #28
                            I just realized we love quarterbacks with "J" names

                            John, Jake, Jay

                            Kinda wierd right???



                            ....my name is josh....maybe ill be the broncos' next kicker!!! .................................................. ........lol, ok nvm
                            Winner of the 2012 Broncomania GM game

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                            • #29
                              wow.... switch out the name 'plummer' with 'rivers' and this thread belongs in the smack section!

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                              • #30
                                We drafted Jay because of his POTENTIAL to be a great QB. He wasn't been one yet. Looks like he will be, but not yet.

                                Here's the facts that matter:
                                Jake 3 winning seasons. 7-4 in is 4th season.
                                Jay 1 losing season. 2-3 in is first.

                                Jake went to the playoffs 3 times and at the time of his benching, we were in the playoffs.

                                On the other hand, we were in the playoffs until we started Jay and missed them last year.

                                Jake always was above .500 and Jay never was. Jake was always in the playoffs and Jay never was.

                                Not to mention, our draft choices during that time didn't exactly give Jake a lot of help.

                                Again, I'm glad we drafted Jay. But he hasn't shown he's a winner. Not in college and not in the pros. I belive Jay will be a big winner, but he hasn't proven it yet.

                                We need to give Jay a break for his first two years, as young QBs rarely win. But if you follow the two year trail of trades, we gave up a lot of draft picks to get Jay. It's is third year, it's now time for him to start winning, otherwise some of us will start to wonder what we could have done with Jake, plus all those extra draft picks.

                                Jake was good. Jay has a chance to be special.

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