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we seriously need more speed at WR

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  • #61
    Originally posted by hambone13 View Post
    Are you going tell me that Willie Gault didn't get all of his touchdowns for the '85 Bears with pure speed?
    Exactly what I'm saying, He got there because he could draw enough of that speed come time and had enough other talents to make use of that speed that he could draw up.

    Yes you need speed, But like BM I never really see him slow down a step or seem any slower then his 40 time, He seems to run at 95% full potential 100% of the time. just like Rod Smith, Jerry Rice, TD. You get what I'm saying.

    With out the other skills, none of the other guys you mentioned have more then 1 game in the NFL. A corner probably needs speed more then the other guys, But whats .2 really going to gain you 1 or 2 steps? Thats if what they do in the game perfectly mirrors what they did in the 40's, More then likely the WR speeds simply droped more then Neon D's and the QB missed the target by a little bit.
    Last edited by SlyBronco; 06-12-2008, 09:54 PM.


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    • #62
      Rod Smith...

      Originally posted by JaysusCutler View Post
      Now that's just not true at all. Jackson has earned a reputation for dropped balls, and since the only games I get on t.v. are Panthers games, I've seen firsthand that Colbert is just not very good at catching the ball. I hope he turns it around with us but I just don't see it.
      Rod Smith developed a rep for dropping balls early in his career with us as well. Colbert is supposedly a "Rod Smith" model....just a thought.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by hambone13 View Post
        Rod Smith developed a rep for dropping balls early in his career with us as well. Colbert is supposedly a "Rod Smith" model....just a thought.
        That would be awesome, TO also had alot of dropped passes if I remember correctly.


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        • #64
          I'm pickin' up......

          Originally posted by SlyBronco View Post
          Exactly what I'm saying, He got there because he could draw enough of that speed come time and had enough other talents to make use of that speed that he could draw up.

          Yes you need speed, But like BM I never really see him slow down a step or seem any slower then his 40 time, He seems to run at 95% full potential 100% of the time. just like Rod Smith, Jerry Rice, TD. You get what I'm saying.

          With out the other skills, none of the other guys you mentioned have more then 1 game in the NFL. A corner probably needs speed more then the other guys, But whats .2 really going to gain you 1 or 2 steps? Thats if what they do in the game perfectly mirrors what they did in the 40's, More then likely the WR speeds simply droped more then Neon D's and the QB missed the target by a little bit.
          What yer lay'n down for sure. I agree with your general premise whole heartedly.

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          • #65
            Yep

            Originally posted by SlyBronco View Post
            That would be awesome, TO also had alot of dropped passes if I remember correctly.
            and within the last couple of years to boot! He's obviously still affective. There's a lot to be said about the reasons for dropped balls. For example, I'd rather someone drop the ball (maybe more than most % wise) because they got open concentrating so hard on the route and the play at hand....

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            • #66
              Originally posted by SlyBronco View Post
              But the point is what they can do with a load and other factors is be different then what they can do without the other factors. It's not like you can say every one is 30% slower from this and 10% from that, The rates of wear and the effects of game time do not effect people the same at all. He might run a 4.2 40, But come game time he's only ever going to get 40 yards in 5.1 seconds, where this guy runs a 4.5 but come game time still going to average 40 yards at full steam in 4.8 seconds. Some people have more drive ,stamina and concentration and that translates in to game speed.

              I've seen very fast guys get ran down by much slower guys come game time, either by fatiuge , lack of drive, or being overwheelmed.
              thats a good point, but what i'm saying is theres gonna be some fast guys who are slower then their 40 times and theres gonna be some slow guys who are slower then their 40 times.

              so, basically your example with the 4.2 guy and a 4.8 guy really inflates it. not every 4.2 guy is going to slow down by almost a full second and not every slow guy is going to maintain the same speed. yes, some people are better at handling the fatgue and are more motivated, etc, but when dealing with sta****ics you have to consider it on both sides.

              so lets say theirs 10 guys who run a 4.3. in a real game, maybe one or two of them have cruddy game speeds and run 40 yards in 5 seconds, like you said. but then you have to account for the one or two guys who have good game speed, and they run 40 yards in 4.4 seconds, almost as good as they were without pads and everything. but the rest of them are average, and lets say, a 4.6 dash in the real game.

              but when you bring up the guys who ran a 4.6 or something, you can' automatically say that they all have great game speeds and maintain their 4.6 speed. once again, your gonna have the one or guys with bad game speed and the one or two with good game speed. but this time, since they were slow to start with, they guys with bad game speed ran 40 yards in 5.3. fast guys ran 40 yards in 4.7 seconds, and the average guys ran it in 4.9 seconds.

              do you kinda understand what i'm getting at?

              heres a sumary of what i just said:

              fast guys (ran a 4.3)

              2 guys with good game speed: 4.4 in the real game with pads
              2 guys with bad game speed: 5.0 in the real game with pads
              6 guys with average game speed: 4.6 in the real game

              slow guys (ran a 4.6)

              2 guys with good game speed: 4.7
              2 guys with bad game speed: 5.3
              6 guys with average game speed: 4.9
              disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

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              • #67
                Originally posted by broncos1997 View Post
                thats a good point, but what i'm saying is theres gonna be some fast guys who are slower then their 40 times and theres gonna be some slow guys who are slower then their 40 times.

                so, basically your example with the 4.2 guy and a 4.8 guy really inflates it. not every 4.2 guy is going to slow down by almost a full second and not every slow guy is going to maintain the same speed. yes, some people are better at handling the fatgue and are more motivated, etc, but when dealing with sta****ics you have to consider it on both sides.

                so lets say theirs 10 guys who run a 4.3. in a real game, maybe one or two of them have cruddy game speeds and run 40 yards in 5 seconds, like you said. but then you have to account for the one or two guys who have good game speed, and they run 40 yards in 4.4 seconds, almost as good as they were without pads and everything. but the rest of them are average, and lets say, a 4.6 dash in the real game.

                but when you bring up the guys who ran a 4.6 or something, you can' automatically say that they all have great game speeds and maintain their 4.6 speed. once again, your gonna have the one or guys with bad game speed and the one or two with good game speed. but this time, since they were slow to start with, they guys with bad game speed ran 40 yards in 5.3. fast guys ran 40 yards in 4.7 seconds, and the average guys ran it in 4.9 seconds.

                do you kinda understand what i'm getting at?

                heres a sumary of what i just said:

                fast guys (ran a 4.3)

                2 guys with good game speed: 4.4 in the real game with pads
                2 guys with bad game speed: 5.0 in the real game with pads
                6 guys with average game speed: 4.6 in the real game

                slow guys (ran a 4.6)

                2 guys with good game speed: 4.7
                2 guys with bad game speed: 5.3
                6 guys with average game speed: 4.9
                While I certainly understand that a lot of 4.6 people are going to slow down come game time you also have to realize that a lot of these people wont play WR very long in the NFL. But my thought is this.

                How many people run 4.3 . A lot of those guys are slender and very much a lot of them just practice just for the 40. Its a smaller pool of players with a lot higher risk, plus like you said you lose size. Then consider how many of them make it on speed merit alone. Then look at your still real quick 4.5 guys While a lot of them do run significantly slower during a game, you have less chances that they just practiced for the 40 and instead made it by using their other merits.

                I don't know how much people slow down come game time in full gear with so much happening, and considering that come mid season they are already wore down. But I bet you its easily .2-.5 seconds. Oh yea and probably alot more then that, because they are not in perfect position to start running to begin with. So i'd say easly .5-.8, And remember their time isnt an average of their 40's, its the fastest 40 they were able to achive with multiple tries ( i've seen them very in times by .2 just from one 40 run to the next.)With a perfect starting position no gear ,warmed up but not tired. Most of their 40 yard runs with burner on in a game is probably 5 seconds.

                If we can find a true true burner that can turn it all on at game time I'm with you, But as far as a need. I think we have very good game speed for the type of offense we have.

                So the main debate of really needing more speed at WR. Nah I'd have to say I don't see why. Of course ultra speed in and of its self is a great attribute to have, It is not a pressing need for us.
                Last edited by SlyBronco; 06-12-2008, 11:25 PM.


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                • #68
                  Originally posted by SlyBronco View Post
                  While I certainly understand that a lot of 4.6 people are going to slow down come game time you also have to realize that a lot of these people wont play WR very long in the NFL. But my thought is this.

                  How many people run 4.3 . A lot of those guys are slender and very much a lot of them just practice just for the 40. Its a smaller pool of players with a lot higher risk, plus like you said you lose size. Then consider how many of them make it on speed merit alone. Then look at your still real quick 4.5 guys While a lot of them do run significantly slower during a game, you have less chances that they just practiced for the 40 and instead made it by using their other merits.

                  I don't know how much people slow down come game time in full gear with so much happening, and considering that come mid season they are already wore down. But I bet you its easily .2-.5 seconds. Oh yea and probably alot more then that, because they are not in perfect position to start running to begin with. So i'd say easly .5-.8, And remember their time isnt an average of their 40's, its the fastest 40 they were able to achive with multiple tries ( i've seen them very in times by .2 just from one 40 run to the next.)With a perfect starting position no gear ,warmed up but not tired. Most of their 40 yard runs with burner on in a game is probably 5 seconds.

                  If we can find a true true burner that can turn it all on at game time I'm with you, But as far as a need. I think we have very good game speed for the type of offense we have.

                  So the main debate of really needing more speed at WR. Nah I'd have to say I don't see why. Of course ultra speed in and of its self is a great attribute to have, It is not a pressing need for us.
                  first of all, i think that generally the only thing that you have to sacrfice is size since hands and route running don't have much to do with speed.

                  and it doesn't matter how much they slow down, the post i had earlier about the averages and stuff would still be consistent. and also the source i got most of the times from (nfldraftscout.com) uses averages, not the fastest.

                  and yeah, i agree with you in that i don't really think its a need, first of all because speed is more of a luxury and not a nessessity(at least when you already have a sufficient amount) and also because we've got royal, who will pan out imo. as i said the title of the thread is misleading because i guess i kinda screwed up. plus it gets more people to open the thread then "lets take a look at some 40 times"
                  disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

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                  • #69
                    Earlier in this thread a comment was made about Davis's speed. Terrell did not have great 40 yd dash numbers but what he did do was hit the whole quickly and then out run the defenders, that include corners. Davis did this on a consistent basis. So, I would think Davis did have speed with the pads on. As far as the receivers we have now, Marshall is special, a TO type pf player, Jackson & Colbert can only be measured when the season starts and they are in a Broncos uniform, then we will see how well their speed translates to our offense, Stokely does have game speed and super quick. Our passing game will not only be successful if we protect Cutler but also dependent on our running game. Smith nor Mc Caffery to me displayed game speed but rather ran great routes and benefitedfrom a powerful running game, Elway, and the play action and bootlegs that was set up by the running game. Teams stached the box to stop the run which allowed Shanny to get creative. Game speed and overall speeed is important to the position of WR but is not the only variable to measure the effectiveness of a good WR.

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                    • #70
                      You're putting too much emphasis on 40 times. Our guys play faster than their 40 time except for Royal, who plays as fast as he runs in shorts.
                      KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by bjohnson1969 View Post
                        Earlier in this thread a comment was made about Davis's speed. Terrell did not have great 40 yd dash numbers but what he did do was hit the whole quickly and then out run the defenders, that include corners. Davis did this on a consistent basis. So, I would think Davis did have speed with the pads on. As far as the receivers we have now, Marshall is special, a TO type pf player, Jackson & Colbert can only be measured when the season starts and they are in a Broncos uniform, then we will see how well their speed translates to our offense, Stokely does have game speed and super quick. Our passing game will not only be successful if we protect Cutler but also dependent on our running game. Smith nor Mc Caffery to me displayed game speed but rather ran great routes and benefitedfrom a powerful running game, Elway, and the play action and bootlegs that was set up by the running game. Teams stached the box to stop the run which allowed Shanny to get creative. Game speed and overall speeed is important to the position of WR but is not the only variable to measure the effectiveness of a good WR.
                        But more than that, TD had great vision and awareness. He could run the stretch play and find the hole, but once through it he could clearly find the cutback lane, and that's where he made the big runs.

                        And I agree with you, if we can get the running game back again, it opens up the passing game. We didn't have a strong running game last year, despite the fact that Selvin Young averaged over 5 yards per carry. It was still better than the year before, but we needed that powerful running game to set up everything else.
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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Kaylore View Post
                          You're putting too much emphasis on 40 times. Our guys play faster than their 40 time except for Royal, who plays as fast as he runs in shorts.
                          You have a good point. Alot of guys work on their technique in the 40 yard dash before the combine. Royal said he never did that, he just went and ran, and still ran a 4.39!!! The dude has great game speed.
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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by rogue719 View Post
                            And I agree with you, if we can get the running game back again, it opens up the passing game. We didn't have a strong running game last year, despite the fact that Selvin Young averaged over 5 yards per carry. It was still better than the year before, but we needed that powerful running game to set up everything else.
                            actually i think that we had a better running game the year before, back with mike bell and tatum bell. we were still in the top 10 in rushing yards i believe, and we had 2-3 more touchdowns. plus, we also had a great redzone guy in mike bell. maybe we should give him another shot
                            disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

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                            • #74
                              O-Line

                              Originally posted by broncos1997 View Post
                              actually i think that we had a better running game the year before, back with mike bell and tatum bell. we were still in the top 10 in rushing yards i believe, and we had 2-3 more touchdowns. plus, we also had a great redzone guy in mike bell. maybe we should give him another shot
                              The only reason we weren't better in the run last year is because of the injuries on the O-Line. It wasn't a M. Bell factor. I'd be happy not to find our next running back at the Aurora Rec. Center touch football league. The guy isn't that talented. Just a decent generalist....who runs like he's competing with talent....Hard.

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                              • #75
                                The difference between a 4.5 runner and a 4.2 runner is only about 4 yards at 40 yards. Speed is overrated. Usually WRs have to slow down to wait on the ball and the CB will catch up so speed doesn't really matter all that much.

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