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  • #31
    Originally posted by draco193 View Post
    I dont have the tape. All I have are youtube highlights, which Im guessing that youve already seen. He was a first year player, with exceptional athleticism and a freak physique. Im fairly certain he has more than one move, perhaps its just not as good as his speed rushing technique. Will it get better? I think it will. Remember, he was a rookie, that wasnt starting. His numbers projected for an entire season were close to Anthony Spencer's, a guy taken a few picks later.

    Same goes for every other rookie that gets hurt. But, that doesnt mean that they havent shown flashes. He had an untreated staph infection during his first few years in college. HE then came back and became an All American.




    If it is that simple, why do most Dlineman take a few years to emerge? Its because they have to relaern everything about how to play against guys that have been in the league for years, and know all the tricks.



    Most of us here are former athletes of some nature, at least into high school. However, a guy doing well in camp gives optimism to people that he has gotten down the smaller things, like footwork and body placement.


    I saw him play some in college, Florida games were on reguarly. I saw him play when he played for the Broncos. He looked like a first year lineman, that showed some flashes. I hate when people pigeon hole guys as only a pass rusher, or only a run stopper. If Elvis had better support from his DTs and LBs last year, would everyone be saying he was only a PRS? Maybe, but, maybe not. Ill see this year, when he has one scheme, some good and above average players next to him on the line, and some LBs that are an upgrade over last years bunch. Same goes for Jarvis. Let the guy play before you call him a bust.

    I just dont understand how someone could be so negative about everything on this team. The future to me is bright. We have made a transition from an old team, to a young team. Sure, there will be tough times. But, to act like its a disaster before it plays out is just wanting to only see the bad.

    Then of course, if you werent such a pessimist japfaff, I wouldnt have nearly so many posts in the past couple weeks.
    Well you are welcome for the cannon fodder that I keep throwing your way.....Before I give you some more...I gotta say....Why do you keep your softball stats? Please tell me you dont treat it like it is game seven of the world series..

    Anyway...It is funny I an not normally a negitive person. But this team just frustrates me. Terrible drafts, even worse FA moves, Bad luck (although a lot of that could have been avoided), and just an overall poor game plan on most days. As a Bronco fan nothing is worse than for the past year and a half the team doesn't show up half the time. What happened to all of you former "athletes" that you would accept this as ok. Even make excusses for us losing like well we have injuries, we are young, blah, blah, blah. I played one year of D1 football, and I had to give it up cause of grades. Just wasted it on booze and women. I ran off the the marine Corps cause I couldn't tell my dad that I lost my scholarship. Then 6 months later I get to go to the Saudi. Now I am proud of the 14 years that I served. And I consider myself truely lucky to have served with some of the most brave selfless men on this planet. But not a day goes by where I dont regret that I forgot the lessions that I was taught as a kid about respecting the game and myself. It just blows my mind that this team (well at least most of them) just dont care enough to give it thier all. Yeah we had a lot of injuries. But that is no reason for what happened in OAk, Det, Hou, SD, Chi, Indy, KC (thanksgiving 06), SF (06),STL (06)... I can handle a loss, just not a loss where MY team is just going through the motions. It should mean more to them than it seems to, more than it does to a lot of us.

    Back to Moss....You are right I am biass... I never liked the pick. I thought that and still think that we have his kinda player. Dummerville is our PRS (if you will). I think it was a total waste of a pick since Dumerville in his second year fills this void better than we can ever hope that Moss can. Like I have said many times, i hope to god that he proves me wrong.... But right now, and in my opinion in the future, Crowder has far more promise than Moss does.


    Ok let me have it...
    Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

    Comment


    • #32
      First let me get this out of the way, I thank you for your service to our country. I come from a military family, and I know just how much our veterans have done.

      Now, onto the good stuff

      Anyway...It is funny I an not normally a negitive person. But this team just frustrates me. Terrible drafts, even worse FA moves, Bad luck (although a lot of that could have been avoided), and just an overall poor game plan on most days. As a Bronco fan nothing is worse than for the past year and a half the team doesn't show up half the time. What happened to all of you former "athletes" that you would accept this as ok. Even make excusses for us losing like well we have injuries, we are young, blah, blah, blah.
      We have had soem terrible drafts. We were abel to cover them up in large part because we were great at finding FAs that worked. I would say we even had success with that until this past year. The Browncos actually played pretty well here, they were right for the scheme we ran. We then changed schemes this year, and none of our pieces fit. We couldnt find the right pieces in FA, and guys that we counted on to be veteran leaders failed miserably, and the scheme failed.

      The Denver Broncos last year had more games missed due to injury than 25 other teams. That right there should tell you we were not going to compete. I know, everyone deals with injuries. But, the NFL season is so short that even having a player miss 2 weeks can basically end your season. We lost the middle and left of our offensive line to injury (LEpsis was a shell of the amazing LT he had been two years before). Only losing a QB has a greater correlation for offensive stuggles than losing a lineman. Against SD, Nalen goes down early in the game with his injury. Youre now asking a guy that had nearly zero NFl experience, and guy that had none, to play like a 13 year veteran, and the best pure run blocker on the team. Its a tall order, especially in a town where the BRoncos are basically it in the fall.


      I think the fall apart losses come in large part because of the youth, and the lack of leadership we had because of it. The offensive leaders (Nalen, Smith) werent present to be abel to help pull young guys out of a stupor. Defensively, the heart and soul of that D was Al Wilson. You lose him, youve lost the leader. We have a lot of guys there that arent vocal leaders, but, are superb at just playing. We needed a vocal leader. When John Lynch was hurt, the defense completely fell apart, and looked horrible (Even though they looked bad when he was in, they at least looked like people were lining up in the right spot to make a play, just failing to make it). Ekuban was a huge loss in the preseason, and forced Dumervil to start full time before he was ready to. EE was probably the best run stopping player we had on the roster, and he didnt play a down for us.

      Ill lay it down, the defense failed the Broncos this season. The opponents took huge chunks of time off the clock, and the offense almost always was playing catch up. Ill lay this one on the coaching staff. They didnt get the right players in to make the plays. But, I think a lot of that went out the window when Bates left. Slowick doesnt have a great track record, but, his scheme at least fits what we have now. And, a season that we looked horrible ine let a lot of young guys play and get that experience they need to become the good players I think they will be.

      The other problem on the staff I felt was Dinger. The two years he was here, we looked like a monkey trying to fly and F16 on offense. I dont know what exactly his job was each week, but, our offense wasnt built for a lot of 5 and 7 step drops. Yet, thats what I saw so often as Jay was about to get crushed. We are an offense that works on a lot of deception and quick movement. Its a good scheme, and I think this year we will see it work more often than not.

      Im a numbers guy. Im an engineering student and intern. Football is my passion, but, I always loved baseball because of the numbers analysis you could do with it. When I started reading Football Outsiders, I got into it. I bought their book, Football Prospectus 2008. I read what they had to say about the Broncos. In 10000 simulations, 86% of the time Denver won at least 7 games this year. In 56% of them, Denver won at least 9 games. Few teams that I had seen have better chances listed.

      The past few drafts have been stellar Ive felt. This is a team that went from very old to very young very quickly, and has been restocked.

      Back to Moss....You are right I am biass... I never liked the pick. I thought that and still think that we have his kinda player. Dummerville is our PRS (if you will). I think it was a total waste of a pick since Dumerville in his second year fills this void better than we can ever hope that Moss can. Like I have said many times, i hope to god that he proves me wrong.... But right now, and in my opinion in the future, Crowder has far more promise than Moss does.
      I dont want Moss and Dumervil on the field at the same time (unless some certain packages would warrant it.) I think a rotation of the two at the RE spot, with Crowder and EE at the LE spot with Engleberger doing spot duty will bring a lot of success. Crowder is the prototypical LE, a run stopper with some pass rushing ability. Jarvis and Elvis will benefit from being able to rest more, and the D will benefit from having both of them well rested. On the interior, I see Robertson, Thomas, Mckinley and Powell, maybe even Stephen Harris rotating, and flourishing in this system. In the next couple years, I see us having one of the best D Lines in the NFL.


      Originally posted by japfaff View Post
      Well you are welcome for the cannon fodder that I keep throwing your way.....Before I give you some more...I gotta say....Why do you keep your softball stats? Please tell me you dont treat it like it is game seven of the world series..
      I keep the stats because I like to compete. It helps me gauge how Im doing as a player. Im a numbers guy.
      sigpic

      I think Ben Tate will be the best back taken in the 2010 draft. (5/3/10)
      SportsXPicks, check out the Rants and Opinions section

      Comment


      • #33
        That's been a great ...

        Originally posted by draco193 View Post
        First let me get this out of the way, I thank you for your service to our country. I come from a military family, and I know just how much our veterans have done.

        Now, onto the good stuff



        We have had soem terrible drafts. We were abel to cover them up in large part because we were great at finding FAs that worked. I would say we even had success with that until this past year. The Browncos actually played pretty well here, they were right for the scheme we ran. We then changed schemes this year, and none of our pieces fit. We couldnt find the right pieces in FA, and guys that we counted on to be veteran leaders failed miserably, and the scheme failed.

        The Denver Broncos last year had more games missed due to injury than 25 other teams. That right there should tell you we were not going to compete. I know, everyone deals with injuries. But, the NFL season is so short that even having a player miss 2 weeks can basically end your season. We lost the middle and left of our offensive line to injury (LEpsis was a shell of the amazing LT he had been two years before). Only losing a QB has a greater correlation for offensive stuggles than losing a lineman. Against SD, Nalen goes down early in the game with his injury. Youre now asking a guy that had nearly zero NFl experience, and guy that had none, to play like a 13 year veteran, and the best pure run blocker on the team. Its a tall order, especially in a town where the BRoncos are basically it in the fall.


        I think the fall apart losses come in large part because of the youth, and the lack of leadership we had because of it. The offensive leaders (Nalen, Smith) werent present to be abel to help pull young guys out of a stupor. Defensively, the heart and soul of that D was Al Wilson. You lose him, youve lost the leader. We have a lot of guys there that arent vocal leaders, but, are superb at just playing. We needed a vocal leader. When John Lynch was hurt, the defense completely fell apart, and looked horrible (Even though they looked bad when he was in, they at least looked like people were lining up in the right spot to make a play, just failing to make it). Ekuban was a huge loss in the preseason, and forced Dumervil to start full time before he was ready to. EE was probably the best run stopping player we had on the roster, and he didnt play a down for us.

        Ill lay it down, the defense failed the Broncos this season. The opponents took huge chunks of time off the clock, and the offense almost always was playing catch up. Ill lay this one on the coaching staff. They didnt get the right players in to make the plays. But, I think a lot of that went out the window when Bates left. Slowick doesnt have a great track record, but, his scheme at least fits what we have now. And, a season that we looked horrible ine let a lot of young guys play and get that experience they need to become the good players I think they will be.

        The other problem on the staff I felt was Dinger. The two years he was here, we looked like a monkey trying to fly and F16 on offense. I dont know what exactly his job was each week, but, our offense wasnt built for a lot of 5 and 7 step drops. Yet, thats what I saw so often as Jay was about to get crushed. We are an offense that works on a lot of deception and quick movement. Its a good scheme, and I think this year we will see it work more often than not.

        Im a numbers guy. Im an engineering student and intern. Football is my passion, but, I always loved baseball because of the numbers analysis you could do with it. When I started reading Football Outsiders, I got into it. I bought their book, Football Prospectus 2008. I read what they had to say about the Broncos. In 10000 simulations, 86% of the time Denver won at least 7 games this year. In 56% of them, Denver won at least 9 games. Few teams that I had seen have better chances listed.

        The past few drafts have been stellar Ive felt. This is a team that went from very old to very young very quickly, and has been restocked.



        I dont want Moss and Dumervil on the field at the same time (unless some certain packages would warrant it.) I think a rotation of the two at the RE spot, with Crowder and EE at the LE spot with Engleberger doing spot duty will bring a lot of success. Crowder is the prototypical LE, a run stopper with some pass rushing ability. Jarvis and Elvis will benefit from being able to rest more, and the D will benefit from having both of them well rested. On the interior, I see Robertson, Thomas, Mckinley and Powell, maybe even Stephen Harris rotating, and flourishing in this system. In the next couple years, I see us having one of the best D Lines in the NFL.




        I keep the stats because I like to compete. It helps me gauge how Im doing as a player. Im a numbers guy.

        ... conversation to follow. Back in the day of CP (aka ancient times), I would have showered you both with them.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

        Comment


        • #34
          The difference between moss and crowder is as follows

          Moss is a project player expected to blossom as his career progresses, in his first couple years he will have around 4 sacks for the year being a rotational end, but after maybe three year is expected to become an all around player collecting 10-12 sacks per year


          Crowder's body type was NFL ready when he hit the league, his 4 sack total is impressive as a rookie, but his potential is limited. He is expected to reach 4-6 sacks per year for the rest of his career.

          i like both picks, if moss can stay healthy he'll produce in the long run imo
          dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

          I tried to warn ya.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by draco193 View Post
            First let me get this out of the way, I thank you for your service to our country. I come from a military family, and I know just how much our veterans have done.

            Now, onto the good stuff



            We have had soem terrible drafts. We were abel to cover them up in large part because we were great at finding FAs that worked. I would say we even had success with that until this past year. The Browncos actually played pretty well here, they were right for the scheme we ran. We then changed schemes this year, and none of our pieces fit. We couldnt find the right pieces in FA, and guys that we counted on to be veteran leaders failed miserably, and the scheme failed.

            The Denver Broncos last year had more games missed due to injury than 25 other teams. That right there should tell you we were not going to compete. I know, everyone deals with injuries. But, the NFL season is so short that even having a player miss 2 weeks can basically end your season. We lost the middle and left of our offensive line to injury (LEpsis was a shell of the amazing LT he had been two years before). Only losing a QB has a greater correlation for offensive stuggles than losing a lineman. Against SD, Nalen goes down early in the game with his injury. Youre now asking a guy that had nearly zero NFl experience, and guy that had none, to play like a 13 year veteran, and the best pure run blocker on the team. Its a tall order, especially in a town where the BRoncos are basically it in the fall.


            I think the fall apart losses come in large part because of the youth, and the lack of leadership we had because of it. The offensive leaders (Nalen, Smith) werent present to be abel to help pull young guys out of a stupor. Defensively, the heart and soul of that D was Al Wilson. You lose him, youve lost the leader. We have a lot of guys there that arent vocal leaders, but, are superb at just playing. We needed a vocal leader. When John Lynch was hurt, the defense completely fell apart, and looked horrible (Even though they looked bad when he was in, they at least looked like people were lining up in the right spot to make a play, just failing to make it). Ekuban was a huge loss in the preseason, and forced Dumervil to start full time before he was ready to. EE was probably the best run stopping player we had on the roster, and he didnt play a down for us.

            Ill lay it down, the defense failed the Broncos this season. The opponents took huge chunks of time off the clock, and the offense almost always was playing catch up. Ill lay this one on the coaching staff. They didnt get the right players in to make the plays. But, I think a lot of that went out the window when Bates left. Slowick doesnt have a great track record, but, his scheme at least fits what we have now. And, a season that we looked horrible ine let a lot of young guys play and get that experience they need to become the good players I think they will be.

            The other problem on the staff I felt was Dinger. The two years he was here, we looked like a monkey trying to fly and F16 on offense. I dont know what exactly his job was each week, but, our offense wasnt built for a lot of 5 and 7 step drops. Yet, thats what I saw so often as Jay was about to get crushed. We are an offense that works on a lot of deception and quick movement. Its a good scheme, and I think this year we will see it work more often than not.

            Im a numbers guy. Im an engineering student and intern. Football is my passion, but, I always loved baseball because of the numbers analysis you could do with it. When I started reading Football Outsiders, I got into it. I bought their book, Football Prospectus 2008. I read what they had to say about the Broncos. In 10000 simulations, 86% of the time Denver won at least 7 games this year. In 56% of them, Denver won at least 9 games. Few teams that I had seen have better chances listed.

            The past few drafts have been stellar Ive felt. This is a team that went from very old to very young very quickly, and has been restocked.



            I dont want Moss and Dumervil on the field at the same time (unless some certain packages would warrant it.) I think a rotation of the two at the RE spot, with Crowder and EE at the LE spot with Engleberger doing spot duty will bring a lot of success. Crowder is the prototypical LE, a run stopper with some pass rushing ability. Jarvis and Elvis will benefit from being able to rest more, and the D will benefit from having both of them well rested. On the interior, I see Robertson, Thomas, Mckinley and Powell, maybe even Stephen Harris rotating, and flourishing in this system. In the next couple years, I see us having one of the best D Lines in the NFL.




            I keep the stats because I like to compete. It helps me gauge how Im doing as a player. Im a numbers guy.
            First on to the softball numbers....Dude you gotta pick up that avg. stop swinging for the fences and slow down...also if you are a righty, learn to hit to right field. You will get a lot of line drive singles over hapless 2nd baseman, that you can turn into an easy double or tripple with heads up base running.

            As for the injuries effecting our team. Of course they did. I understand that young players strugle. But this team just didnt show up for games at a time. Case in point.... They played their asses off agianst Pitt, and they competed with GB..But then the next week they take it off agianst Detroit. Then Kc and Tenn we show up and play....Then Chi, and Oak another vacation this time two weeks. actually that isnt fair. They played three quarters agianst Chi. After Oak....we thrash KC, but then agian MIA agianst Hou and SD... Then we decide only to play three quarters agianst Minn. This is why I am so negative about this team. They have no heart. I know that we dont have the best talent. But we have enough talent to beat almost anyteam on any given Sunday. But the way this team has played in the past two years is a disgrace. I blame everyone that is one the field, cause they are all guilty.....I will take a 4-12 team that plays like they want to win and are actually trying to get better, over that 7-9 team that never seemed to care, took weeks off, were poorly prepared


            As for the monkey coment.....I think you are being rough on monkeys. I am sure they can fly f-16's better than Dinger can run an Offense. It is scary to see how much Young is going to digress
            Last edited by japfaff; 07-10-2008, 07:29 PM.
            Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by japfaff View Post
              First on to the softball numbers....Dude you gotta pick up that avg. stop swinging for the fences and slow down...also if you are a righty, learn to hit to right field. You will get a lot of line drive singles over hapless 2nd baseman, that you can turn into an easy double or tripple with heads up base running.
              I know. Im just too nervous at the plate. Im a pretty good hitter when I slow down and just hit, and not try to make something happen. It would also help if the umps called a consistent strike zone, and it didnt depend on if your team was losing or winning.


              As for the injuries effecting our team. Of course they did. I understand that young players strugle. But this team just didnt show up for games at a time. Case in point.... They played their asses off agianst Pitt, and they competed with GB..But then the next week they take it off agianst Detroit. Then Kc and Tenn we show up and play....Then Chi, and Oak another vacation this time two weeks. actually that isnt fair. They played three quarters agianst Chi. After Oak....we thrash KC, but then agian MIA agianst Hou and SD... Then we decide only to play three quarters agianst Minn. This is why I am so negative about this team. They have no heart. I know that we dont have the best talent. But we have enough talent to beat almost anyteam on any given Sunday. But the way this team has played in the past two years is a disgrace. I blame everyone that is one the field, cause they are all guilty.....I will take a 4-12 team that plays like they want to win and are actually trying to get better, over that 7-9 team that never seemed to care, took weeks off, were poorly prepared
              I certainly feel that. But, I see it as part of the learning process. Young teams get beaten down by experienced teams. This season I really think 10 wins is where we will be at, possibly more if everyone plays up to the potential theyve shown.

              I think the defense always looked like it gave up much faster than the offense as well. In large part, because I dont think any of the players repected Bates. Now, we have Slowik, who all of the DBs have said is a great coach, and they all really like him. Were getting back to a manageable scheme, with a coach that the players like. I think they will play harder for a guy that they repect and like, than the guy who tried to shove square pegs into round holes.

              As for the monkey coment.....I think you are being rough on monkeys. I am sure they can fly f-16's better than Dinger can run an Offense. It is scary to see how much Young is going to digress
              Yeah, I was too hard on those monkeys. Some of them are pretty darn smart. Watching the Titans offense this year will certainly be like watching drunks stumble home from the bars. Uncoordinated, no real idea whats going on, almost always in the wrong place at the wrong time. Especially since they still have no recieving threats.
              sigpic

              I think Ben Tate will be the best back taken in the 2010 draft. (5/3/10)
              SportsXPicks, check out the Rants and Opinions section

              Comment


              • #37
                Chemistry....

                Originally posted by TDBroncosTD30 View Post
                I believe that once the all the newcomers get aquainted with the vets, all will be good. Team chemistry is not on my list of worries right now. The only worry i have is.... CAN THEY FINALLY CLOSE OUT SOME GAMES. I dont know how many times last season i got frustrated because of the losses that should have been wins.. We should have at least had a 10-6 record. By the way.. Cutler is gonna show everyone what hes made of this year! And even though we might not have the most RECOGNIZED running backs in the league, doesnt mean they wont be productive. I dont recall ever having to worry about running the ball..
                Chemistry is the root of all team success. You contradict yourself in this post. "Team Chemistry is not on my list of worries" but "Can they finally close out some games?"

                Closing out games is primarily about team heart and execution. It's the team chemistry that makes it happen.

                Team chemistry is my biggest concern, every season. If that is there, there is always a chance.

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