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Foxworth and Paymah: One Stays, One Goes

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  • #31
    Foxworth

    Foxworth is clearly the better of two corners but he offers the most in terms of trade bait for a player or draft picks. The Broncos are predominently a 10 plus win a season ball club which puts them in mediorce draft position. The only way this type of club gets back to the Super Bowl is by trading quality personnel for quality in return. I would love to keep Foxworth but he is expendible if the price is right. Obviously, if a trade isn't forthcoming then, Paymuh would be the likely casualty.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by getlynched47 View Post
      Ha..............you're funny...

      This guy has NOT proved one thing in a regular season game, and you're ready to proclaim him Dre' Bly's successor? Get a grip, we all know Foxworth is the favorite to stay, but he might want starting CB money and the Broncos won't give him that.
      Dre isn't getting any younger, it is inevitable his physical abilities will diminish as he gets older. This is obviously why they drafted Jack Williams, to be groomed for a couple or so years and eventually take over that spot when Bly is too old. Or did you seriously think it was the Broncos' master plan to have him as a fourth stringer and special teams player, only to be cut after a few years?

      I never suggested that Jack should be the starter right now, I was referring to a few years down the road. Teams tend to plan ahead when they make picks, as did the Broncos when they drafted Jack Williams. And of course Jack hasn't proven anything in the regular season...he's a rookie!
      sigpicthanks Freyaka

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      • #33
        From a character perspective, Foxy can't be beat. I root for him every game. Unfortunately, he's just not that good. Bly is light years ahead of him. Until I see something more, he looks to be a good nickel back and useful backup to me.

        I don't think Foxy sees it that way. Even more than the money, he'll want the opportunity to start. And let's face it, staring at Champ and Bly on the depth chart ahead of you makes things rough. I expect he's gone once he hits free agency.

        And though Foxy is slightly better than Paymah, outside of character I don't see a huge difference.

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        • #34
          I seem to remember Paymah making two or three horrible mental decisions during games over the past two years (unfortunately, I can't remember them specifically). Foxworth has seemed to demonstrate more ability and intelligence...but I also think he has had more opportunity during regular season games. I would think we'd be better off to choose Foxworth (if given an outright choice between the two), but that may just be based on a slanted comparison. But I wouldn't feel comfortable at this point with EITHER of them as our 2nd CB.

          However, I would agree with the assessment that it won't come down to an outright choice for our management...rather, much of the choice will come down to the amount of money that other teams offer the two of them and where each of them wants to play. We will likely have little control over the outcome of this scenario seeing as though we won't want to shell out too much money to keep a 3rd CB, unless improvement is evident and plans develop for the not-so-distant future to use one of them to replace Champ or Bly.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Broncos724 View Post
            Dre isn't getting any younger, it is inevitable his physical abilities will diminish as he gets older. This is obviously why they drafted Jack Williams, to be groomed for a couple or so years and eventually take over that spot when Bly is too old. Or did you seriously think it was the Broncos' master plan to have him as a fourth stringer and special teams player, only to be cut after a few years?

            I never suggested that Jack should be the starter right now, I was referring to a few years down the road. Teams tend to plan ahead when they make picks, as did the Broncos when they drafted Jack Williams. And of course Jack hasn't proven anything in the regular season...he's a rookie!
            No, Jack Williams was drafted to take either the nickel or dime CB spots once either Foxworth or Paymah leaves. The Broncos aren't going to let both of them go, but Foxworth might demand more money because he wants to start, so we might re-sign Paymah for cheap. No duh his "physical abilities will diminish as he gets older", and Foxworth or Paymah will most likely take the starting job...whichever gets re-signed...Hell Jack Williams might not even be with the team in 2-4 years...maybe he'll suck...who knows


            sigpic


            FA Targets: DT Jason Jones, DT Pat Simms, S Reggie Smith, LB Dan Connor



            :cool:

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            • #36
              Originally posted by getlynched47 View Post
              Let's assume the scenario that after this season, the Broncos will re-sign only one of these young corners (because they planned for it by drafting Jack Williams.) Which one would you re-sign and why?

              I'll go first. I would re-sign Foxworth because of his solid camp performance thus far, his versatility, and the fact that he has the potential to be a starting corner IMO if not for Champ and Dre' handling the starting spots. Paymah is much too aggressive in coverage which causes many pass interference calls on him and he gets beat easily by faster defenders with great cutting ability.

              Your turn guys
              You seem to be assuming that Foxy would want to stay. If he believes he can start somewhere else, he may prefer to test the market and see if he can snag a starting corner position with another team.

              Of the two, I am assuming that Paymah may want to stay more than Foxworth. Both have solid skills but I believe that Foxworth would be more advantageous to the Broncos. He can play both cornerback and safety and seems to be relatively solid at both. The big question is whether he thinks that he can start elsewhere, particularly at corner. If so, he may take his chances on free agency.
              You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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              • #37
                Foxy or Paymah:
                Both can run the 40 in 4.3, both are solid tacklers, but neither is starting CB material because they are both 'long striders'- they have strait line speed but mediocre quickness. Foxy makes up for this with light weight and intelligence but plays off giving up receptions and getting beat, while Paymah is stronger and more physical, prefering to glue himself to the reciever and taking flags. Williams, like Bly, is fast, quick and compensates for his size with strength, he is starting CB material. Bailey is just a freak of excellence- fast, quick, strong, smart, and has the long stride to cover ground.

                Which one we keep is dependant on who's better at NB/FS. For this reason I'd keep Paymah because Foxy is, well, dainty. He doesn't play press coverage which is needed up on the line, he has solid wrap-up, but avoids the collision and wrestles the guy to the ground or just holds him until someone else shows up. Paymah will get physical with TEs and recievers, he puts good pop in his hits, has planted guys and is generally more aggressive for the more physical role of NB/FS.

                Add the fact Foxy thinks he's a great starting CB and will want a fat contract and I'll call this one solved. Hopefully Williams will be ready for starting time next year and we pick up another 1-2 DBs in the draft. Hey, maybe Dada is an ugly duckling that will show up next year.

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                • #38
                  Make mine Paymah.

                  Foxworth thinks he's better than he's shown so far, I think he'll be looking forward to the chance to find a starting job next year if he doesn't beat out Bly this season.

                  But neither of them have proven anything, so keeping them both is a possibility until they do prove something......

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by broncoCUbuff View Post
                    Foxworth is clearly the better of two corners but he offers the most in terms of trade bait for a player or draft picks. The Broncos are predominently a 10 plus win a season ball club which puts them in mediorce draft position. The only way this type of club gets back to the Super Bowl is by trading quality personnel for quality in return. I would love to keep Foxworth but he is expendible if the price is right. Obviously, if a trade isn't forthcoming then, Paymuh would be the likely casualty.
                    They're both free agents next year, how/when/why are they going to trade Foxworth when they tried to trade him in the off-season and failed.

                    Also, I wouldn't say Foxworth is clearly better than Paymah at all, in their rookie season this was true, but since then Paymah had closed the gap considerably until this training camp.

                    In practice, Paymah has taken his lumps and Foxworth has caught everybody's eye, while in games Paymah has looked fine but Foxworth has been picked on.

                    To be quite honest, we won't know which one (If any) is the one to keep until the season plays out......

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                    • #40
                      Ask me again around week 4.

                      Right now, I'd say keep Foxworth, get a draft pick for Paymah, and keep rebuilding.

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                      • #41
                        I think it all depends on how the safties play. If we have to bring them up to support the line again the 3rd and 4th string corners will struggle the most. The reason being is that the slot receivers simply have more room and a wider field. The slot corners can't really rely on the sidelines as a wall like champ and bly. They have to get in position on both sides to make a play. With safety support its easier to commit to a side and if the quarter back wants to squeeze the ball into a spot with the safety up top he can. But more than half the time the QB will hold the pass. Making the secondary look better.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Auggy74 View Post
                          Ask me again around week 4.

                          Right now, I'd say keep Foxworth, get a draft pick for Paymah, and keep rebuilding.

                          Both are FA so the best you can hope for is a 2010 supplemental pick

                          R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                          J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                          R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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