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  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by sage View Post
    ...like his run stuff of Marion Barber on third down...:nono:
    Thers a differance between getting in someones way and stuffing a run, Manuel did not record a tackle or assist in the entire game against the Cowboys.

    Barrett is a beast out there. In the words of MindField He is getting by on physical potential... Once he learns the defense he should contribute alot, and as I said earlier, could even challenge McCree for his spot-bumping him to FS or taking it outright.
    I have the Dallas game on tape, and it clearly was Manuel that made the play.
    Barber may have rolled off the initial hit and was technically tackled by someone else (and more likely he was gang tackled), but the play was made by Manuel and it went for no gain, so obviously he made the stop on a player about 20lbs bigger than he was. It was an impressive play either way.

    ...and because it would appear that I need to (re)explain myself here to other readers, I am NOT saying McCree/Manuel are headed to the Pro Bowl. My comparison for Manuel was Tyrone Braxton. I think he can be a good, solid player for us, and an improvement over last year.

    Bottom line, alot of us had concerns about our Safeties going into this season, myself included. All I am saying is that I have been pleasantly suprised by the play of McCree and Manuel, and I think they are an improvement over what we had last year. That does not mean I think they are a permanent solution (after all, I am not sure there are permanent soulutions in the NFL), but I do think they will be a good, effective set of Safeties this season.

    Whatever Josh Barrett dfoes will be in the future, maybe as soon as next year, but not this season.

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  • The Experience
    replied
    Originally posted by sage View Post
    ...like his run stuff of Marion Barber on third down...:nono:
    Thers a differance between getting in someones way and stuffing a run, Manuel did not record a tackle or assist in the entire game against the Cowboys.
    Barrett is a beast out there. In the words of MindField He is getting by on physical potential... Once he learns the defense he should contribute alot, and as I said earlier, could even challenge McCree for his spot-bumping him to FS or taking it outright.
    ya but he completely stopped one of if not the toughest runner in the NFL right in his tracks, tackles don't really mean anything if your contributing and doing the things your supposed to do

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  • sage
    replied
    ...like his run stuff of Marion Barber on third down...:nono:
    Thers a differance between getting in someones way and stuffing a run, Manuel did not record a tackle or assist in the entire game against the Cowboys.

    Barrett is a beast out there. In the words of MindField He is getting by on physical potential... Once he learns the defense he should contribute alot, and as I said earlier, could even challenge McCree for his spot-bumping him to FS or taking it outright.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    Thats not inbetween what they are saying, that IS what they are saying.
    one is saying he is the most impressive of all our safeties, and one is saying he's not on the level with abdullah or even Foxy. i think Mcree is better but Manuel is not so bad.

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    Manuel is somewhere in the middle of what you two think he is. He is by no means better than McCree, but he is just ahead of Abdullah. To me he is a Kenoy Kennedy with an extra step in coverage....meaning he is solid enough to start, but lets not go overboard he is not a playmaker, at least not so far.

    He does seem like a vocal guy though, which is good.
    Thats not inbetween what they are saying, that IS what they are saying.

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  • 24SuperChamp
    replied
    If Barrett stays healthy, he will be a beast! He is amazingly fast and can hit.

    We may have gotten a steal grabbing him in the 7th.

    And watch out because Jack "MF" Williams is the corner of the future!

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Manuel is somewhere in the middle of what you two think he is. He is by no means better than McCree, but he is just ahead of Abdullah. To me he is a Kenoy Kennedy with an extra step in coverage....meaning he is solid enough to start, but lets not go overboard he is not a playmaker, at least not so far.

    He does seem like a vocal guy though, which is good.

    Leave a comment:


  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by dwills#1fan27 View Post
    You must have been watching a different game because Manuel has been everywhere he is really playing with heart and has been the most impressive player in our secondary IMO
    Exactly, like his run stuff of Marion Barber on third down, I particularly liked that....and he was also one of the most impressive DB's at the practices I attended as well.

    I guess Sage will just have to be disappointed when McCree and Manuel are the starters.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Experience
    replied
    Originally posted by sage View Post
    Actually my desicions are based on repeatedly watching the first and second pre-season games. Though the camera work is crap-as is all of channel4's coverage- it is usefull in gauging play. Manuel has had every opportunity to show he can play 1st string FS, but has not exceeded Foxy's, Paymah's or even Abdullah's(a back-up) ability. He is always the last DB to the ball. He is tied with Poole and Vaughn in tackles-neither of which will make the team. It could be argued this is due to great pass coverage diverting the play elsewhere, but on running plays it is because he is blocked out. Even on passes to his vincinity he has been juked out of the play. He will probably get one last look this weekend as a starter and then should be cut so we can get down to buisness with capable starting FS's.
    You must have been watching a different game because Manuel has been everywhere he is really playing with heart and has been the most impressive player in our secondary IMO

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  • sage
    replied
    Actually my desicions are based on repeatedly watching the first and second pre-season games. Though the camera work is crap-as is all of channel4's coverage- it is usefull in gauging play. Manuel has had every opportunity to show he can play 1st string FS, but has not exceeded Foxy's, Paymah's or even Abdullah's(a back-up) ability. He is always the last DB to the ball. He is tied with Poole and Vaughn in tackles-neither of which will make the team. It could be argued this is due to great pass coverage diverting the play elsewhere, but on running plays it is because he is blocked out. Even on passes to his vincinity he has been juked out of the play. He will probably get one last look this weekend as a starter and then should be cut so we can get down to buisness with capable starting FS's.
    Last edited by sage; 08-21-2008, 09:30 PM.

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  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by sage View Post
    We seem to agree that McCree is the starting SS and deservingly so, but my opinion of Barrett's play and recognition is much higher. He would have been an early round pick if not for injury questions-which came from his high level of play.
    We also seem to agree that neither Foxy or Paymah are starting CB caliber and Abdullah isn't starting Safty caliber. Foxy and Paymah played FS and NB well last year. If I had to keep one next year it would be Paymah due to his strength and quickness advantages over Foxy, which is why I prefer him at NB and Foxy at FS.
    Our disagreement is in Manuel's play. I have been underwelmed and think he should be cut immediately where as you seem to think he will be our starter for years. Does this mean you think he is better then Foxy, Paymah or even Abdullah? I think not.
    At Safety? Manuel absolutely IS better than Foxworth and Paymah. So you disagree? Obviously you disagree with the coaches, because Manuel is starting now with McCree. He sure as hell won't be cut. Abdullah may figure in when he is healthy, but he isn't now, so he is a moot point.

    ...and come on, Barrett is lost right now. He is getting by on physical potential, and that's all. If he plays at all in the regular season, it will be on special teams. He will make the team based on future potential, not what he can do now. He is nowhere near McCree or Manuel in terms of being ready to play in the NFL.

    You appear to be a fan that has made his decision based upon what a players past is, not what he is doing now, because Manuel has played very well. Only McCree has even been close to being as impressive as Manuel, and they have outplayed everyone else, and it's not close, which is why the Broncos let Lynch go, and why they were named the starters.

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  • sage
    replied
    We seem to agree that McCree is the starting SS and deservingly so, but my opinion of Barrett's play and recognition is much higher. He would have been an early round pick if not for injury questions-which came from his high level of play.
    We also seem to agree that neither Foxy or Paymah are starting CB caliber and Abdullah isn't starting Safty caliber. Foxy and Paymah played FS and NB well last year. If I had to keep one next year it would be Paymah due to his strength and quickness advantages over Foxy, which is why I prefer him at NB and Foxy at FS.
    Our disagreement is in Manuel's play. I have been underwelmed and think he should be cut immediately where as you seem to think he will be our starter for years. Does this mean you think he is better then Foxy, Paymah or even Abdullah? I think not.

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  • Sniptilla
    replied
    McCree is a real thumper and his work ethic and preparation is top notch. You will cheer him with his hard hitting. His coverage skills are slipping though and once in a while he gets totally lost in coverage...making you sick to your stomach.. Still he is a great example for your younger players. He is a very short term answer for the Broncos.

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  • MindField
    replied
    Originally posted by sage View Post
    There are two distinct needs at safty. A tackling nickleback that plays every down and a coverage OLB that hurts anyone that goes up the middle and stops cracks in the run defense. I'll refer to as FS and SS respectivly, though some reverse the terms.
    As far as FS: Foxworth, Abdullah and Paymah would be my depth chart. Paymah has better feet then Foxy so I'd play him as the NB/3rd CB and keep Foxy in at FS. Abdullah is a more then capable backup.
    As far as SS: Barrett has the speed to play FS, but the size, instincts and aggressivness to be our future SS. He reminds me of a younger, stronger and faster Lynch. Until he's ready, McCree and his experiance will do nicely. If Barrett is slow picking up NFL speed, Abdullah is a good backup SS. If Barrett learns quickly, he could take the starting spot from McCree by mid-season.
    Manuel has neither the size(SS) or quickness(FS) to make the team. Rodgers is good P-Squad depth that could play FS if injuries nessesitate it. I'd keep 8 DBs: Foxy, McCree, Abdullah, Barrett; Bailey, Bly, Paymah and Williams. These are the best and most versitile players.
    Wrong.

    McCree and Manuel will start because they have been the best Safeties in camp, period. Barrett is a project that will take a few years to develop, and Abdullah is on a one year contract, and probably won't crack the starting lineup this year because he is not healthy. Foxworth and Paymah are likely gone after this season as well, and since they have not been playing Saftey this year at all, and with Bailey and Bly nursing minor injuries, are playing alot at Corner, which is where they belong.

    Manuel was signed to a three year deal, and McCree looks good, so I suspect you are looking at the Safety tandem for at least a couple of years.
    Last edited by MindField; 08-21-2008, 05:54 PM.

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  • sage
    replied
    Say no to Manuel

    There are two distinct needs at safty. A tackling nickleback that plays every down and a coverage OLB that hurts anyone that goes up the middle and stops cracks in the run defense. I'll refer to as FS and SS respectivly, though some reverse the terms.
    As far as FS: Foxworth, Abdullah and Paymah would be my depth chart. Paymah has better feet then Foxy so I'd play him as the NB/3rd CB and keep Foxy in at FS. Abdullah is a more then capable backup.
    As far as SS: Barrett has the speed to play FS, but the size, instincts and aggressivness to be our future SS. He reminds me of a younger, stronger and faster Lynch. Until he's ready, McCree and his experiance will do nicely. If Barrett is slow picking up NFL speed, Abdullah is a good backup SS. If Barrett learns quickly, he could take the starting spot from McCree by mid-season.
    Manuel has neither the size(SS) or quickness(FS) to make the team. Rodgers is good P-Squad depth that could play FS if injuries nessesitate it. I'd keep 8 DBs: Foxy, McCree, Abdullah, Barrett; Bailey, Bly, Paymah and Williams. These are the best and most versitile players.

    Leave a comment:

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