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  • #46
    Originally posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
    Shanny has never been one to play someone based on name over talent (as evidenced by the fact that he continually places Jackson over Scheffler on the depth chart REGARDLESS of who actually produces during the regular season). If Foxy was better, he'd be starting over Dre. There's no way that we would've brought in Dre if Shanny had that confidence in Foxy.

    If Foxy was so damned good, how come we didn't get ANY legit offers for him when he was an RFA this spring? All it would've cost was a third round pick and NOBODY was willing to bite!?!?! C'mon fellas, I think that tells the whole story. Any CB who is young, smart, a character guy, injury free, and has the ability to start right away is a STEAL for a 3rd round pick compensation and yet, NOBODY was willing to part with a third rounder and offer Foxy a deal. All of those statements about Foxy are true except the one about having the ability to start

    I think Foxy is a great guy and he's definitely a fan favorite, but it's obvious to me that we overrate his skills, talent, and value on this board ALL THE TIME.
    Because a team would rather let him develop one more year and pick him up via free agency then part ways with their 3rd round pick


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    • #47
      Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
      Passes to RB in the flat is not "pick on Foxworth"

      pass middle (not Nique)
      pass to RB (not Nique)
      pass to WR (on Nique, 9 yards, kept in bounds)
      pass to RB (not Nique)
      pass to TE (not Nique)
      Pass to WR (on Nigue, In-Com-Plete)

      You have yourself believing it, just not the rest of us Rav
      Keep telling yourself that, Cutler. Keep fooling yourself that it was just a "coincidence" that they went FIVE times to that side with passes and then on the last play on the drive (other than the kick), they went deep on him for the endzone. KEEP fooling yourself that it had NOTHING to do with Foxworth being over there, and that all five plays to the left side like that was just alllllllll coincidence

      I have some land in florida to sell you as well.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
        Keep telling yourself that, Cutler. Keep fooling yourself that it was just a "coincidence" that they went FIVE times to that side with passes and then on the last play on the drive (other than the kick), they went deep on him for the endzone. KEEP fooling yourself that it had NOTHING to do with Foxworth being over there, and that all five plays to the left side like that was just alllllllll coincidence

        I have some land in florida to sell you as well.
        So you are saying that they went at Foxworth instead of Champ, ya I can agree with that.

        They also went at Winborn instead of DJ.

        Bottom line, they didn't "pick on Foxworth", and even if they did Foxworth won.

        R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
        J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
        R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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        • #49
          Originally posted by getlynched47 View Post
          how the heck do you know that?

          Foxworth is eager....he's waiting on his chance to start.....
          You say he won't get many INT's.....did you go to any of the training camps?? He was on fire this training camp...jumping routes, knocking passes down, etc... You're just assuming when you know nothing...and assumptions are not a valid argument
          And he's done exactly none of that in the games, he hasn't done much of that since his rookie year. That's not an assumption either.

          Besides, Brandon Browner got a lot of INT's in TC practice too, he's playing in the CFL now......

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
            So you are saying that they went at Foxworth instead of Champ, ya I can agree with that.

            They also went at Winborn instead of DJ.

            Bottom line, they didn't "pick on Foxworth", and even if they did Foxworth won.
            Foxworth won what? He's defended one pass, the rest of the time it's been Pitch-and-Catch.

            Btw, you don't think OC's throwing to a RB on Foxworth's side is picking on Foxworth? I do, Foxworth is leading the Broncos in pre-season tackles for a reason, he's an easy target......

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
              Sorry. I like Champ as much as the next guy.. but he just got flat out BEAT.. period. Its not like he's never been beat deep. We saw Champ get beat Repeatedly .. REPEATEDLY.. on the long ball his first season here. All of them on prime-time games. The GB game, was a prime-time game. So please. If you are going to try and make lame excuses for Champ on this and simply throw Bly under the bus... its not working here. Thats just a poster that chooses to see only roses with his favorite guy.



              Thats fine if you believe it. I haven't seen anything from Foxwoth YET that would suggest him to be one of the better corners in the NFL. Not ONE bit. In fact, I must not be the only one since not a single GM was willing to give up a 4th round pick for this future elite.
              I agree agian......Some people on here are afraid to call a spade, a spade for fear that they are going to get flammed...... Rav is right Champ got beat a lot last year and like he said in his first year. BFD it happens to a corner espically when the safety is always helping out the other side. You dont worry if your guy occasionally gets beat for a deep ball. It is when they are constantly picking on the for 10-15 yards a pop. As someone that played CB for a D1 college... you get to a point in a game where you get suprised when they throw the ball your way, and you make a mistake.... It happens no one is perfect
              Thanx Blondie79 for the sweet Sig....Love it and I will rock it with pridesigpic

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
                So you are saying that they went at Foxworth instead of Champ, ya I can agree with that.

                They also went at Winborn instead of DJ.

                Bottom line, they didn't "pick on Foxworth", and even if they did Foxworth won.
                He won!?!?!?!? How is that? They went from their own twenty yard line to our 28 in 1:20. How is that winning??? I would hate to see what you consider to be losing if that is winning.

                So make up your mind... are they picking on Foxworth or were they just avoiding champ? Believe what you want, but 5 passes in a row at his side isn't a coincidence. Going for the endzone against him, isn't a coincidence. FIVE PASS PLAYS in a row came at his sideline to march down the field, isn't a coincidence.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by getlynched47 View Post
                  Because a team would rather let him develop one more year and pick him up via free agency then part ways with their 3rd round pick
                  Yeah because the 31 other teams wouldn't be willing to get into a bidding war for his services if he was so awesome...

                  You don't let a guy that you covet hit Free Agency if all it takes to get him is a 3rd round pick. I guarantee that if he's half as good as you're giving him credit for it will force whomever signs him to completely overpay for him. It also gives us one more year to get him re-signed prior to allowing him to walk.

                  I think that if he was as valuable as you seem to think, he'd be gone already.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                    He won!?!?!?!? How is that? They went from their own twenty yard line to our 28 in 1:20. How is that winning??? I would hate to see what you consider to be losing if that is winning.

                    So make up your mind... are they picking on Foxworth or were they just avoiding champ? Believe what you want, but 5 passes in a row at his side isn't a coincidence. Going for the endzone against him, isn't a coincidence. FIVE PASS PLAYS in a row came at his sideline to march down the field, isn't a coincidence.

                    No they were not picking on Foxworth. 2 passes were thrown his way and he did a good job on both. If you want to blame him for a RB catching a 3 yard pass on Winborn, or a RB catching a 9 yard pass that had Winborn on him, or a TE that had, yep Winborn covering...thats your bias coming through.


                    If anything they were picking on Winborn.

                    Foxworth made two plays to keep the receiver in bounds forcing GB to use 2 TOs and he was one on one with no help on the same play that burned Paymah twice.

                    R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                    J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                    R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
                      No they were not picking on Foxworth. 2 passes were thrown his way and he did a good job on both. If you want to blame him for a RB catching a 3 yard pass on Winborn, or a RB catching a 9 yard pass that had Winborn on him, or a TE that had, yep Winborn covering...thats your bias coming through.


                      If anything they were picking on Winborn.

                      Foxworth made two plays to keep the receiver in bounds forcing GB to use 2 TOs and he was one on one with no help on the same play that burned Paymah twice.
                      Like I said before. If this is what you choose to believe..... then fine, believe it. But its not a coincidence 5 passes in a row came his direction

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                        Possibly.. but I sure saw the GB packers target Foxworth and go after him on EVERY play of the drive.

                        Foxworth is without a doubt, a better tackler than Bly. Thats not saying a lot considering Bly is the worst tackler I've seen outside of Deion Sanders. The idea of keeping the defender in front and tackling him does seem to fit our scheme better at this point.

                        But lets not think that Foxworth doesn't get beat deep. Thats absurd. People try to blame Bly for the GB game last year.... but Champ got just as beat. I'm just not sold on Foxworth being the "real deal" at all yet. I've seen the recievers catch the ball against him every time... and he's NEVER making a play to knock the ball away, but just tackling the guy after the catch. Is that the player, or the scheme??? I don't know.

                        I guess we'll see. I just want to the best players on the field.... thats all I care about. Just don't know if Foxworth is reallly that guy yet. I would be thrilled if he is (but I don't really think it matters if foxworth WANTS to be the starter or not. I think they all want that).
                        Even in man coverage, Foxy seems to favor a soft coverage that has him off his man enough that he likely won't be beaten deep, but allows his man to catch the ball.

                        And, that means that Fox's number of tackles is mainly because his guy is catching the ball and getting the yardage, which I think is one of the main reasons you won't see Foxworth beat out Bly for a starting spot as long as the Broncos want to play a lot of man coverage against the WR.
                        You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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                        • #57
                          I think the issue with Foxy is he is not aggressive enough. Basically, he is the human equivalent of the prevent defense. While he keeps the play in front of him and makes the tackle (usually after a few YAC) he is a target. He has been all pre-season. He has had the opportunities to break up some passes. He has had opportunities to defend the deep ball and made a pretty basic mistake in not being able to turn for the ball. Dalls worked against him and so did GB.

                          While I don't care much for Bly either, I am not going to judge him completely off of last year. Champ didn't have a good 1st year here (see Cincinatti game on Monday night that year. #85 had him for lunch along with Deltha). However, the scheme last year didn't favor the CB's too much. My problem with Bly is he may be too aggressive and he can be beat for the deep play or 6. However, he can come up with picks too.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                            5-M.Prater kicks 70 yards from DEN 30 to end zone, Touchback.
                            1-10-GB 20 (1:25) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep middle to 80-D.Driver to GB 43 for 23 yards (20-M.McCree).
                            1-10-GB 43 (1:01) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 34-V.Morency to GB 46 for 3 yards (22-D.Foxworth).
                            2-7-GB 46 (:56) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 89-J.Jones to DEN 45 for 9 yards (22-D.Foxworth, 51-J.Winborn).
                            Timeout #2 by GB at 00:47.
                            1-10-DEN 45 (:47) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 34-V.Morency to DEN 36 for 9 yards (51-J.Winborn).
                            2-1-DEN 36 (:25) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 86-D.Lee to DEN 28 for 8 yards (51-J.Winborn, 33-M.Manuel).
                            Timeout #3 by GB at 00:11.
                            1-10-DEN 28 (:11) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to 85-G.Jennings.
                            2-10-DEN 28 (:05) 2-M.Crosby 46 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-46-J.Jansen, Holder-9-J.Ryan.
                            Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
                            Passes to RB in the flat is not "pick on Foxworth"

                            pass middle (not Nique)
                            pass to RB (not Nique)
                            pass to WR (on Nique, 9 yards, kept in bounds)
                            pass to RB (not Nique)
                            pass to TE (not Nique)
                            Pass to WR (on Nigue, In-Com-Plete)

                            You have yourself believing it, just not the rest of us Rav
                            Well guys I got the game DVR’d and one of the many things I love to do is break everything down…

                            - The pass deep over the middle was not Foxworth; however to Rav’s credit he did not say it was Foxworth. We were playing a drop zone and the LB’s played too shallow, safeties played to deep, no pass rush = dissection.

                            - The short dump to the RB was not Foxworth, again everyone dropped at least 10 yards and Rogers dumped it to his outlet on the left.

                            - This one was on Foxworth not for the coverage but for the defensive play after the catch. Our defensive call had Foxworth line up 7 yards off the line of scrimmage. Aaron Rodgers noticed this before the play and simply did a pitch and catch to Jones who caught the ball 1-1.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Foxworth did keep Jones in bounds but it was evident that he should have tackled him around the Packer 48 or 50 yard line for a short gain. Instead he let Jones muscle his way to the Bronco 46 yard line.

                            - The dump to the RB was not Foxworth; again the defensive scheme had him playing at least 7 yards off the ball. Winborn had the RB man up out of the backfield and was to blame for this one. Never let a man cross your face in the 1st 5 yards, Winborn didn’t even get a hand on him to slow him down.

                            - This play to the TE is iffy on who is to blame or just the right call on offense vs. the wrong call on defense. If you look at the play the TE chucks our DE and then releases. Winborn is playing Zone and can not immediately vacate to cover the TE because the RB is crossing his zone. Once again Foxworth is 7-8 yards off the line (the other CB’s are not playing this deep). Foxworth drops another 5-6 yards to his zone in zone and let’s Jones (#89) release inside running a lazy slant. Both Winborn and Foxworth recognize and react to the pass to TE, where Foxworth keeps the guy inbounds but let’s a TE jump over him. So I can’t really blame this one on Foxy but they are definitely picking on the left side of the defense in general (Rogers never even looked at that side of the field on this play).

                            - The pass to Jennings was overthrown but Foxworth did have good coverage.


                            Anyway I see both of your points, I don’t see Foxworth starting but I do see him making some plays for us this year. Many people hate on Bly because he takes risks and sometimes he gets burned. That’s what happens when you take risks, but the reward can be worth it when he jumps a route. Overall I think Foxy is a good young CB.

                            Thx,
                            Joe
                            To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffering.

                            sigpic

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jhildebrand View Post
                              I think the issue with Foxy is he is not aggressive enough. Basically, he is the human equivalent of the prevent defense. While he keeps the play in front of him and makes the tackle (usually after a few YAC) he is a target. He has been all pre-season. He has had the opportunities to break up some passes. He has had opportunities to defend the deep ball and made a pretty basic mistake in not being able to turn for the ball. Dalls worked against him and so did GB.

                              While I don't care much for Bly either, I am not going to judge him completely off of last year. Champ didn't have a good 1st year here (see Cincinatti game on Monday night that year. #85 had him for lunch along with Deltha). However, the scheme last year didn't favor the CB's too much. My problem with Bly is he may be too aggressive and he can be beat for the deep play or 6. However, he can come up with picks too.
                              Yeah I really noticed this on the review the GB game, I made some notes on how he lined up 7-8 yards off the line almost every time on the drive before halftime. I do not know if this is how they want him to line up for the calls they had or if he was playing off because that's where he is comfortable.

                              Thx,
                              Joe
                              To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffering.

                              sigpic

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                                Did you watch GB pick on Foxworth in that last drive of theirs?? EVERY pass (except the very first pass of their possession that went down the middle) was at foxworth. EVERY play, without exaggeration.



                                What good does it do to be a defender if all you are going to do is let the guy catch it? Do you think that kind of corner play concerns a QB or WR? Even if it takes them 20 passes to get into the endzone, they'll just throw it 20 times at him. They settled for a FG because there was only 5 seconds left on the clock. So in that 1:25 minute drilll that the Packers went through starting on their own 20, they were able to get into FG range (to our 28 yrd line) simply by throwing at Foxworth 5 times in a row.

                                I would like to see more defending and less "catch and tackle" from Foxworth before we name him our next starter.
                                great point i think foxy sucks bad and i think bly is over the hill,shanny shouldnt be contemplating who should start from these two he should be loooking to trade and get a legit #1 corner i cant stand foxworthless he completely embaressed himself fri they were burning him all nite bly too.if we go onto the season with one of these bums as our starter we are going to be in trouble get rid of both.

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