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This is why CHAMP doesn't cover #1

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  • #46
    I counted 13 passes, to your observation of cromartie to be fitted with 11 passes being targetted on him perfectly fits within the vicinity of 5-10% marginal error I've just declared; but it's understandable that you are incapable of comprehending my statements.

    Even if Ayan was 51% accurate, his statement would still be able to validate that cromartie got burned.

    Noone falsifies any facts better than you McKeough

    Originally posted by McKeough View Post
    Yes, it is. You're saying he caught almost double the number of balls he actually did against Cromartie
    Ayan overstated 18, a mere 8 more than 10. That isn't double. A statement that claims "almost double" isn't valid in the world of mathematics and statisticians to claim a fact. You've exaggerated a statement 20% compared to Ayan's 70. Are these both stretches? The difference is that Ayan has already staked claim that he did exaggerate and boasted.

    I don't find anything wrong with the fact that Ayan engaged in verbal combat with a charger fan. It's one of the things that fans do: boast and put their team on a pedestal.

    What is the POINT of you coming in here and throwing worthless numbers at a bronco fan engaged with a charger fan?

    McKeough you must've failed at life pretty hard to come to an insignificant thread and get in between two people arguing about Champ and Cro.

    PS. I take pride in believing that my team is superior to every other team in the NFL, even if the obvious reality is that it isn't true. I'm a hardcore fan, I couldn't care less if cro was beat by 5 catches or 50 catches; truth is, the broncos worked Cromartie hard and I enjoyed every bit of it. But i wouldn't appreciate bronco fans trying to devalue it. That position is reserved for raider/charger fans.
    Last edited by cammina; 09-29-2008, 05:58 PM. Reason: s

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    • #47
      Originally posted by McKeough View Post
      I was wathcing NFLN and they said ten.

      As have a few of the stats pages I was looking at. Uh oh.
      You watch the game as a fan and you would see a clear 14, possibly 16!

      NFLN stats are based once upon a time on visual observation too. Do they have a right to claim that Cromartie didn't hold the responsibility? sure

      but by inspection cromartie was within 5-8 yards every time a ball was caught. Quit discrediting the broncos man, what's wrong with yoU?
      Last edited by AyanBronco; 09-29-2008, 06:02 PM. Reason: s

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      • #48
        Originally posted by AyanBronco View Post
        All they've been doing is lining up Their #1 opposite of champ, are we supposed to flip our whole defensive play just to have champ line up with that?

        That would give away our coverage everytime. And all their #1 has to do is motion down to the other side...
        LOL @ Champ locking down an entire side of the field. LO friggin' L!

        So what happens when the O has 2 recievers and a TE on Champ's side? Is he so good that he covers 3 guys?

        Common sense. If you have a guy like Champ and your going against a weak offense with limited passing options, you shadow QB's FAVORITE option. That FORCES the QB out of his comfort zone and FORCES him to hesitate and throw to sub-par receivers. It creates opportunities for pressures, sacks, and turnovers. Conceding passes to a secondary option is better than conceding passes to the primary one.

        Football 101.
        "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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        • #49
          Originally posted by AyanBronco View Post
          All they've been doing is lining up Their #1 opposite of champ, are we supposed to flip our whole defensive play just to have champ line up with that?

          That would give away our coverage everytime. And all their #1 has to do is motion down to the other side...


          Man you're too much.

          Play MAN defense. Champ shadows the #1 all game. Would it give away the coverage? Yes. We're taking their best receiver out of the game. Remember it, write it down, take a picture. Doesn't matter. Throw at him at your own peril.

          Zone is completely moronic at this point anyway, since it only works when you can get pressure with the front 4.
          "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Lomax View Post


            Man you're too much.

            Play MAN defense. Champ shadows the #1 all game. Would it give away the coverage? Yes. We're taking their best receiver out of the game. Remember it, write it down, take a picture. Doesn't matter. Throw at him at your own peril.

            Zone is completely moronic at this point anyway, since it only works when you can get pressure with the front 4.
            You're not opening up your train of thought here. You have Champ chase the #1 around different formations (in which they did a few times) the whole game; have the offense know our coverage the whole game?

            We couldn't even stop LJ for 198 yards with champ being one of the best run stoppers. You can't stop the #1 receiver every snap; the point was to try to force the Qb to make a mistake on champ while champ is covering the lesser receivers.

            IF you pay attention to stats much, Most CBs make their Ints on the lesser receivers and Rbs. Champ is a playmaker; I agree that he is good on the #1, but his other strength is also to shut down the field stop the run, and make a play on players who don't catch as well.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by cammina View Post
              You're not opening up your train of thought here. You have Champ chase the #1 around different formations (in which they did a few times) the whole game; have the offense know our coverage the whole game?
              The only thing the defense will know is whether Champ is playing man or zone. Defenses know this by default by sending receivers in motion. But just because Champ is in man doesn't mean the rest of the defense needs to be. You can throw in all sorts of wrinkles combining man and zone. I'm just saying, whatever wrinkles you throw in, they involve Champ playing man-to-man against the top WR.

              We couldn't even stop LJ for 198 yards with champ being one of the best run stoppers. You can't stop the #1 receiver every snap; the point was to try to force the Qb to make a mistake on champ while champ is covering the lesser receivers.
              Why would the QB make a mistake on Champ when his favorite guy is covered by Jack Williams? Put it this way. Do you think teams want to take away Marshall as a primary option for Cutler? If they could, don't you think they would? It makes no sense for teams to use their best corner to cover Royal or Scheffler when Cutler clearly wants to throw in Marshall's direction 15 times a game. that's 15 plays an opposing #1 can impact, if only by making him throw somewhere else or scramble and run, compared to a miniscule number of plays where the #2 receiver is the primary. Now go back to last year when Marshall was pretty much Cutler's only option. Knowing what you know about Cutler, would you have preferred to lock down Stokley or Marshall?

              IF you pay attention to stats much, Most CBs make their Ints on the lesser receivers and Rbs. Champ is a playmaker; I agree that he is good on the #1, but his other strength is also to shut down the field stop the run, and make a play on players who don't catch as well.
              QBs who are not comfortable throw INTs. When a QB is allowed his security blanket, he'll sit there and throw to him all night like Huard did. Take that away, and I guarantee he'll hang around in the pocket too long trying to make reads, force passes to his primary anyway, and generally increase his chances to make mistakes.

              I'm not saying you do this for every game, but for sure if the other wide receivers are that far below the #1, you lock down the #1.
              Last edited by Lomax; 09-29-2008, 08:49 PM.
              "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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              • #52
                Look guys, you all are forgetting one big piece in the fact that Champ can or cannot shutdown a corner.

                You can post here statistics about any other team, how bolts where better than us, and all talk-talk, but will miss the point. The point is how our D deals with the QBs and RBs and how the pressure is affecting opposing QBs.

                In this season and the past year season, we wasn't able to bring enough pressure in the pocket to force the QB pass, and this year too.
                Champ has advantage like all corners in the league when the QB is under constant pressure and must convert long plays to keep the chains moving. But Champ can't change the game momentum all alone, when the opposing QB has time enough to wait 'til WR get wide open downfield.

                Is easy for us come here and bash that Champ cannot cover as he could be, but for 2 seasons our D is struggling in the line of scrimmage, forcing the corners to come closer and open the downfield, but yes, QBs think twice before throw in Champs side.

                also, we have Karl Paymath to burn our secondary.
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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Lomax View Post


                  Man you're too much.

                  Play MAN defense. Champ shadows the #1 all game. Would it give away the coverage? Yes. We're taking their best receiver out of the game. Remember it, write it down, take a picture. Doesn't matter. Throw at him at your own peril.

                  Zone is completely moronic at this point anyway, since it only works when you can get pressure with the front 4.

                  It's interesting how fans think that just by putting champ on the #1 receiver is the answer to our sloppy defense.

                  If you watch enough NFL there are numerous games where teams don't match up their #1 CB vs #1 WR.

                  It's like our game vs. oakland. WHy wasn't asomugha on Royal for most of the game when Hall was constantly getting torched. Then the Oak D eventually slowed Royal down for a bit and Cutler hit Sheffler and Jackson for bombs.

                  Then the chargers had Cromartie on Bmarsh manvman for most of the game and look how that worked out for them.

                  THEN you look at the chiefs, their CBs switched up on Bmarsh. Eventually, FLowers the smaller CB was on bmarsh and shut him down.

                  Quit pretending like you know all the answers and open up to other suggestions. There is a REASON Champ was on zone and run support. It worked out pretty well. It just looks bad because JMFW#26 got hit up for a couple of key 1st downs.
                  Last edited by cammina; 09-29-2008, 09:26 PM. Reason: s

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by cammina View Post
                    It's interesting how fans think that just by putting champ on the #1 receiver is the answer to our sloppy defense.

                    If you watch enough NFL there are numerous games where teams don't match up their #1 CB vs #1 WR.

                    It's like our game vs. oakland. WHy wasn't asomugha on Royal for most of the game when Hall was constantly getting torched. Then the Oak D eventually slowed Royal down for a bit and Cutler hit Sheffler and Jackson for bombs.

                    Then the chargers had Cromartie on Bmarsh manvman for most of the game and look how that worked out for them.

                    THEN you look at the chiefs, their CBs switched up on Bmarsh. Eventually, FLowers the smaller CB was on bmarsh and shut him down.

                    Quit pretending like you know all the answers and open up to other suggestions.
                    The difference is that Champ is by far our best player on D. Not just our best corner, our best player. Aso and Hall are pretty comparable to eachother. So are Jammer and Cro. But on this team, it's Champ, a few guys fighting for the number 2 spot, and everyone else. You don't stick your best player on a side of the field that the O wasn't throwing to anyway.

                    Champ's primary responsibility is to impact the passing game, not be a run stuffer. If that's his job, we need to trade him for a top Safety, because stuffing the run is best done from that position. His biggest opportunity to impact the game is wherever they're throwing the ball the most.

                    There is a REASON Champ was on zone and run support. It worked out pretty well.
                    It worked out well? Wait, didn't LJ just torch us for 200 yards? Didn't Huard have a 100 QB rating? Didn't Bowe grab 7 catches for 83 yards, including 3 drive-extending 3rd down grabs?
                    "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by cammina View Post
                      It's interesting how fans think that just by putting champ on the #1 receiver is the answer to our sloppy defense.
                      Because what we are doing is working so well. No one here is a DC, for sure. But we still give our idea's being this is a forum and all. What I think is funny is when people come in here and criticizes other peoples idea's with out giving their own.

                      Originally posted by cammina View Post
                      If you watch enough NFL there are numerous games where teams don't match up their #1 CB vs #1 WR.

                      It's like our game vs. oakland. WHy wasn't asomugha on Royal for most of the game when Hall was constantly getting torched. Then the Oak D eventually slowed Royal down for a bit and Cutler hit Sheffler and Jackson for bombs.
                      Seriously, you're using Oakland in that game as an example of an effective defense. SERIOUSLY???

                      Originally posted by cammina View Post
                      Then the chargers had Cromartie on Bmarsh manvman for most of the game and look how that worked out for them.
                      alot better then what the Raiders did.

                      Originally posted by cammina View Post
                      THEN you look at the chiefs, their CBs switched up on Bmarsh. Eventually, FLowers the smaller CB was on bmarsh and shut him down.
                      We played like ass, Jay Cutler had some major lapses in judgment. I don't take much from that game. 4 turnovers 2 3 and outs and great field position threw out against our "horrible" defense and they could only muster 33 points. KC sucks and is not a major of just how bad we did.

                      Originally posted by cammina View Post
                      Quit pretending like you know all the answers and open up to other suggestions. There is a REASON Champ was on zone and run support. It worked out pretty well. It just looks bad because JMFW#26 got hit up for a couple of key 1st downs.
                      LOL it worked well, 33 points is not well. Our defense needs to change, this is KC were talking about not some high powered offense. This was supposed to be the movable object against the resistible force. Well the resistible force won .


                      :salute!: !!Get well soon!!:salute!:

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                      • #56
                        God I can't even stomach reading some of the retarded opinions on this site anymore. Lost a step? Is too old? Does anyone even understand what the hell's going on out there when they watch these games? Why do you think Champ is almost always around the ball when it's a run, and I don't mean beyond the five. Now think about our useless middle linebacker who can't stop the run.

                        Mindless drones. Every one of you.
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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by cammina View Post
                          After five seasons of watching Champ Bailey play Im surprised the fans don't understand the role of Champ.

                          He is a SHUTDOWN corner, because of him, the term was popularized.

                          Why would you use Champ to lockdown exactly ONE player when he has the ability to cover half a field AND shut down the run on his side?!

                          Champ is excellent man on man but so much better when can cover half the field. How many times have you seen people run on champ?


                          The right thing to do is have him shut down half the field and leave it up to the other 10 guys to make a play, and if they don't they should be pressuring the QB to make a mistake on champ's side.

                          Our DLine is making our 3rd corner and safeties look terrible. But you don't just put Champ on #1 receiver all the time. Wake up broncos fans
                          WHAT?!?! The Hell with all that. Champ responsibility should always to want to cover the #1 WR. The front seven is responsible for stopping the run. If a CB has to stop the run for them, then the front seven isn’t taking care of their responsibility. If they happen to run it to Champ side, he’ll try to stop it like always

                          Champ needs to be covering the #1 WR at all times. He's just useless if he isn't. They are not even going to throw or look to his side cuz they got their #2 or #3 lined up on his side anyway. DUH!

                          Champ is going to get beat. All CB's do. But he's not going to get beat often. That's the point of having him on the #1 WR at all times. Dre will always get beat 88% of the time when he's covering the #1 WR because he’s overrated.
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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by SlyBronco View Post
                            4 offensive turnovers, 2 3 and outs. Inflated KC's stats.
                            198 yards from LJ is getting owned, even if your offense doesn't turn over the ball

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by NinjaPirateFunk View Post
                              God I can't even stomach reading some of the retarded opinions on this site anymore. Lost a step? Is too old? Does anyone even understand what the hell's going on out there when they watch these games? Why do you think Champ is almost always around the ball when it's a run, and I don't mean beyond the five. Now think about our useless middle linebacker who can't stop the run.

                              Mindless drones. Every one of you.
                              The funny thing is we get that at the Charger forum in regards to LT........morons over there say LT has lost a step, We should trade LT, bench LT for Sproles

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                              • #60
                                Question:

                                Would you guys be up tp trading Champ to help fill some voids on the defense?

                                Cut Bly? (whom is severely over-rated)

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