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  • In Defense of the Defense....

    First of all lets put it in perspective. We are 4-2, same as the Cowboys, still ahead of the Chargers/Patriots/Colts.

    At first, it was believed our offense was carrying our defense, and only ref's were helping secure the win.

    Now that we've played a few more games, I can tell not many of you have changed their mind.

    But in reality, the defense has actualy gotten much much better. Still nothing to brag about, but very capable of giving the offense a shot to win the game.

    The problem has been the offense has crumbled lately. Mixing big plays with stupid mistakes. Our last 3 games we scored 19, 16, and 17 points.

    Now the defense isnt that reliable to keep opponents under 20 points consistently, but if my memory serves me right....

    ****We had only given up 10 points at halftime to the Jags after the offense giving up 3 turnovers. And vs KC, we had only given up 13 points at the start of the 4th quarter after the offense gave up 4 turnovers!!!!****

    Then of course the TB game was actually won off of defense.

    So the defense is not the problm here, it is the offense.

    Which has brought me to the positive side to all this. Once our offense quits turning the ball over, we can become a very complete team.

    I'm excted for this team, and think we can go deep into the playoffs
    Last edited by Return of Lava; 10-13-2008, 02:30 PM.
    dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

    I tried to warn ya.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    First of all lets put it in perspective. We are 4-2, same as the Cowboys, still ahead of the Chargers/Patriots/Colts.

    At first, it was believed our offense was carrying our defense, and only ref's were helping secure the win.

    Now that we've played a few more games, I can tell not many of you have changed their mind.

    But in reality, the defense has actualy gotten much much better. Still nothing to briag about, but very capable of giving the offense a shot to win the game.

    The problem has been the offense has crumbled lately. Mixing big plays with stupid mistakes. Our last 3 games we scored 19, 16, and 17 points.

    Now the defense isnt that reliable to keep opponents under 20 points consistently, but if my memory serves me right. We had only given up 10 points at halftime to the Jags after the offense giving up 3 turnovers. And vs KC, we had only given up 13 points at the start of the 4th quarter after the offense gave up 4 turnovers!!!!

    Then of course the TB game was actually won off of defense.

    So the defense is not the problm here, it is the offense.

    Which has brought me to the positive side to all this. Once our offense quits turning the ball over, we can become a very complete team.

    I'm excted for this team, and think we can go deep into the playoffs
    thats all correct fundementaly lav.....but even with a top five offense...this is not a team that can make some noise in the post season with a 30th ranked defense


    in the first 3 games where our offense was working and averaged 38 points per game...our defense failed to follow the old the best defense is a great offense theory, by giveing up 28 points per game

    in the last three games our offense has averaged 17.3 points per game and the defense 23.3 points per game
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    when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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    • #3
      Originally posted by arapaho View Post
      thats all correct fundementaly lav.....but even with a top five offense...this is not a team that can make some noise in the post season with a 30th ranked defense


      in the first 3 games where our offense was working and averaged 38 points per game...our defense failed to follow the old the best defense is a great offense theory, by giveing up 28 points per game

      in the last three games our offense has averaged 17.3 points per game and the defense 23.3 points per game
      Yeah but the difference is the defense is giving up 23 points per game, but the offense is still averaging 3 turnovers per game all of a sudden. And the defense still improving drastically in scoring defense.

      Thats a good sign, cause the offense will get back on track eventually.
      dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

      I tried to warn ya.

      Comment


      • #4
        In fairness to the D, they do look better to me, especially on the run. And we would have won yesterday if the O played the way our O can play. And to be honest we were down a few key players, which didn't help (but so were the Jax). Having said that, those turnovers cost us about 1/2 of their points. So in my mind, we should have won. And it's true, our O has backed off in the last 3 games. Need some strategy refresh, and some basic coaching re: what we did in those first few games. The guys shouldn't be thinking 30+ points, rather they should be taking it one play at a time, one drive at a time. The oline still looks amazing!

        However D is still an issue, and there are a 1,000 stories why. I will not go over every reason or concept. I do think we could benefit by a trade, but it's unlikely to happen. All it takes is a change of one or two players sometimes. On a positive note, at least there's some progress. It takes time. If you keep changing coordinators, the guys will have slow starts. It's like any sport, once you can read off one another, you become more efficient and effective.

        I like our O chances next week, as NE has a weak secondary. This game will tell us a lot about our O, especially if we get a couple of the guys back. Then, watch out for an explosion after the bye week. I have mentioned this many times before, but I can't wait to see Torain!!!!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
          Yeah but the difference is the defense is giving up 23 points per game, but the offense is still averaging 3 turnovers per game all of a sudden. And the defense still improving drastically in scoring defense.

          Thats a good sign, cause the offense will get back on track eventually.

          i think our only hope is the offense to get back on track...hopefully this week
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          when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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          • #6
            I think our defense sucks but it did not cost us the game, exclusively. Right after Stokley's TD Webster forced a fumble and the offense gave the ball back to the Jags for free. Then, when we had a chance to tie the game, the refs killed us with 2 horrible calls. Our defense will not win many games for us, so the offense should wake up while there is time. Silly turnovers and poor reads by Cutler are haunting us since week 4.
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Possession Offense

              The top priority on O should be to maintain possession. Second priority should be to score the TD. Right now it seems that those priorities are flipped. On short 3rd downs, the only thing there is to do is throw a short route or preferably run the ball and convert. Especially at home, the O needs to get back to the basics of being a possession offense. And that has to include a heavy dose of run. The deep game should only be there to keep the D honest. A long drive that doesn't end in a score is a partially successful drive because it keeps your D fresh and keeps the opposing D tired. I'd take that anyday over a 3-and-out. A 3-and-out is in many ways as bad as a turnover, and is not what our defense needs to stay fresh late in games.

              The O should be protecting the D since the D is weaker. Not the other way around.
              "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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              • #8
                i dont think the defense was the main reason they lost yesterday. its not like they made huge strides but theyve been better compared to the first 3 games. yeah, they gave up some big plays, but they also made big plays, like that 3 and out stop they did which put our offense back on the field with 7 minutes left in the 4th, with the team only down by a td but our offense responded with 3 and out too. imo, if it's unfair to expect the offense to score everytime they go on the field, then it's also unfair to expect the defense to stop and force the opposing team 3 and outs each and every single time theyre on the field. theyre gonna make mistakes, just like the offense. theyre gonna give up some big plays, just like the offense fumbles the ball sometimes and turns it over. theyre gonna give up tackles, just like the offense will fail to move the chains on 3rd downs at times. its just the way it is. if the offense cant be perfect, so does the defense. if some are willing to overlook cutlers bad passes or masrhsall's fumbles, then you also have to overlook some missed tackles and assignments

                ive seen little improvements from both tampa and jax games. at least theyre not dumping 30 pts on us anymore, esp with jax, since i believe they have more offensive talent than tampa. i hope they go all out blitzing against the pats. matt cassel is a slow decision-mkaer, based on the sd game, and should be a prime target for sacks.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                  I think our defense sucks but it did not cost us the game, exclusively. Right after Stokley's TD Webster forced a fumble and the offense gave the ball back to the Jags for free. Then, when we had a chance to tie the game, the refs killed us with 2 horrible calls. Our defense will not win many games for us, so the offense should wake up while there is time. Silly turnovers and poor reads by Cutler are haunting us since week 4.
                  Outside of 1 long play from MJD, our bend but dont break defense played a good game.

                  They are getting better every week....its a good sign
                  dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                  I tried to warn ya.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
                    First of all lets put it in perspective. We are 4-2, same as the Cowboys, still ahead of the Chargers/Patriots/Colts.

                    At first, it was believed our offense was carrying our defense, and only ref's were helping secure the win.

                    Now that we've played a few more games, I can tell not many of you have changed their mind.

                    But in reality, the defense has actualy gotten much much better. Still nothing to brag about, but very capable of giving the offense a shot to win the game.

                    The problem has been the offense has crumbled lately. Mixing big plays with stupid mistakes. Our last 3 games we scored 19, 16, and 17 points.

                    Now the defense isnt that reliable to keep opponents under 20 points consistently, but if my memory serves me right....

                    ****We had only given up 10 points at halftime to the Jags after the offense giving up 3 turnovers. And vs KC, we had only given up 13 points at the start of the 4th quarter after the offense gave up 4 turnovers!!!!****

                    Then of course the TB game was actually won off of defense.

                    So the defense is not the problm here, it is the offense.

                    Which has brought me to the positive side to all this. Once our offense quits turning the ball over, we can become a very complete team.

                    I'm excted for this team, and think we can go deep into the playoffs
                    I absolutely agree with you. The defense has gotten better and the offense has been struggling. This game could have very well been a blow out on either side....meaning they could have scored more tds with the to's or we could have scored more td's without the to's. Obviously there are some glaring holes in the defense i.e. the scheme should allow corners to be more aggressive, no pass rush, safeties are not in position alot of times, etc. I am anxious to see when the offense doesnt turnover the ball and the defense continuing to get better. I think this will result in some blowouts of some bad teams and good wins againts good teams. Im thinking this will change next week. Also, I think coach should make people accountable for their mistakes ie fumbles. Maybe this is happening but i cant tell.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
                      First of all lets put it in perspective. We are 4-2, same as the Cowboys, still ahead of the Chargers/Patriots/Colts.

                      At first, it was believed our offense was carrying our defense, and only ref's were helping secure the win.

                      Now that we've played a few more games, I can tell not many of you have changed their mind.

                      But in reality, the defense has actualy gotten much much better. Still nothing to brag about, but very capable of giving the offense a shot to win the game.

                      The problem has been the offense has crumbled lately. Mixing big plays with stupid mistakes. Our last 3 games we scored 19, 16, and 17 points.

                      Now the defense isnt that reliable to keep opponents under 20 points consistently, but if my memory serves me right....

                      ****We had only given up 10 points at halftime to the Jags after the offense giving up 3 turnovers. And vs KC, we had only given up 13 points at the start of the 4th quarter after the offense gave up 4 turnovers!!!!****

                      Then of course the TB game was actually won off of defense.

                      So the defense is not the problm here, it is the offense.

                      Which has brought me to the positive side to all this. Once our offense quits turning the ball over, we can become a very complete team.

                      I'm excted for this team, and think we can go deep into the playoffs

                      I tend to agree with you. This is a young team and will improve and get more consistent week in and week out. The turnovers did not help the D yesteday. We still need a running back (and we may have him already) and a couple of impact players on defense. I have no given up on some of our D lineman picks of last year either. We are a year away from being dominant. The O line will only get better and Cutler will only improve (maybe he nees to come down to earth a bit after is strongest arm comments). Less turnovers makes the defense much better.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                        i think our only hope is the offense to get back on track...hopefully this week
                        They dont have to feel like they have to put up 40 points a game. Just avoid turnovers. The Jags had what like 12 different possessions?
                        dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                        I tried to warn ya.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
                          They dont have to feel like they have to put up 40 points a game. Just avoid turnovers. The Jags had what like 12 different possessions?
                          the defense is giving up 25.7 points per game...show me one superbowl champ that gave up that much...this is ultimately about getting to and winning another superbowl...and i cannot see it happening with a 28th ranked scoreing defense
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                          when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                            the defense is giving up 25.7 points per game...show me one superbowl champ that gave up that much...this is ultimately about getting to and winning another superbowl...and i cannot see it happening with a 28th ranked scoreing defense
                            As evidenced by tonight, when the offense gives up 4 or 5 turnovers every game, we're never gonna win.
                            dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                            I tried to warn ya.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
                              As evidenced by tonight, when the offense gives up 4 or 5 turnovers every game, we're never gonna win.
                              It doesn't help that Sammy Morris was over 100 yards rushing in his first nine carries. He left with an injury in the second quarter but he already had 135 yards.

                              Matt Cassell was putrid last week against the Chargers, but this week he looked like Joe Montana against our pitiful D.

                              Please don't defend the defense. The team as a whole royally sucked last night. So yeah, you can point to the turnovers but that's not the only reason. The defense gave up 41 points to a team that was only averaging 17.8 per game.

                              But you can't candy coat that or spin that. That's ugly. Anytime the D gives up 41 points, we probably won't win either.
                              sigpic

                              "Today's the tomorrow that you should've feared yesterday."

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