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  • Article on the defense from the Post

    It basically says what most of us are thinking. Is it the players, the schemes, the D-coordinator, or.......Shanahan?


    Mike Shanahan, on the state of the Broncos' defense, circa nine days ago: "We're starting to build and starting to make some strides forward. Hopefully we can keep it going."

    Let me guess. You're thinking what I'm thinking: What's he supposed to say?

    Enough already with wishful thinking and talk of a blown assignment here or a missed tackle there. And don't blame the officials, either.

    To be kind, the Broncos aren't very good on the defensive side of the ball. Not only that, there's no particular reason to believe they will be. Not this season. Not until a handful of new starters arrives. And frankly, even then you would have to wonder.

    Given the lengths Shanahan has gone to make it not so, it's beyond perplexing how the Broncos' defense could be in such shambles. He has played musical coordinators. He has switched to the 3-4. He has tried trades and free agency and first-rounders. He swapped arguably the best tailback in franchise history for a cornerback bound for the Hall of Fame.

    And still the Broncos have one of the NFL's poorest defenses.

    The Tampa Bay game may have served up a slice of hope, but the Jacksonville game provided the reality check. It wasn't just that the Broncos lost, but how they lost. The defensive players knew the offense was short-handed, knew it was on them to step up and control the game.

    So what happens? They get dominated in the trenches. At home. By the league's 20th-ranked offense.

    Talk about deju vu all over again. A year ago, it was the same kind of loss to the same team at the same place. That's what cost Jim Bates his job. It didn't become official that day, just obvious.

    Question is, why should anything be different this time? What evidence is there to think that Bates' successor, Bob Slowik, is the answer?

    The Broncos are last in the league in yards allowed and on pace to set an NFL record for highest completion percentage allowed. They have two interceptions through six games, one by a defensive tackle. Last year's No. 1 draft pick, Jarvis Moss, has been on and off the inactive list.

    Not that Slowik is necessarily the problem. At this point, you have to wonder if any coordinator could make a difference. And if the problem lies with the talent Slowik is working with, the blame lies with the man who hired him.

    At least Shanahan knows what the problem is. It's up to him, and only him, to fix it.



    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10721517
    Last edited by emac87; 10-15-2008, 08:58 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by emac87 View Post
    It basically says what most of us are thinking. Is it the players, the schemes, the D-coordinator, or.......Shanahan?


    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10721517


    all i know is we dont have top 5 defensive talent as a unit...but we certainly have better talent as a group then 30th overall

    pretty simply
    sigpic
    when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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    • #3
      Originally posted by arapaho View Post
      all i know is we dont have top 5 defensive talent as a unit...but we certainly have better talent as a group then 30th overall

      pretty simply
      I agree with you. I know we are bad, but we shouldn't be that bad.

      A lot of fans talk about how we're lacking talent and playmakers on D, which we are........but, I believe we have enough talent to be better than 30th.

      Shanny needs to stick with a D coordinator and let the defense gel as a unit and get some cohesiveness

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      • #4
        Originally posted by emac87 View Post
        I agree with you. I know we are bad, but we shouldn't be that bad.

        A lot of fans talk about how we're lacking talent and playmakers on D, which we are........but, I believe we have enough talent to be better than 30th.

        Shanny needs to stick with a D coordinator and let the defense gel as a unit and get some cohesiveness


        what shanny needed to do was hire a competent DC in the first place
        sigpic
        when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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        • #5
          Originally posted by arapaho View Post
          what shanny needed to do was hire a competent DC in the first place
          I agree. There are still some out there. But do you think he's going to fire another D coordinator? If he fired another coordinator after only a year, it's going to him that looks like the incompetent one.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by emac87 View Post
            I agree. There are still some out there. But do you think he's going to fire another D coordinator? If he fired another coordinator after only a year, it's going to him that looks like the incompetent one.
            I say fire him at the bye week and get in another person from outside the team. Even learning a new scheme mid-season even a basic scheme would be better. Honestly how could it get worse? We might not get INTS now? oh wait that's already happening. Seriously though, 2 ints in 6 games? How pathetic is that.

            This is green bay all over again. They barely changed their players, except adding woodsen, and look at what they are doing now.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by emac87 View Post
              I agree. There are still some out there. But do you think he's going to fire another D coordinator? If he fired another coordinator after only a year, it's going to him that looks like the incompetent one.

              no i doubt he gets fired.....
              sigpic
              when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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              • #8
                Originally posted by broncofanatik View Post
                I say fire him at the bye week and get in another person from outside the team. Even learning a new scheme mid-season even a basic scheme would be better. Honestly how could it get worse? We might not get INTS now? oh wait that's already happening. Seriously though, 2 ints in 6 games? How pathetic is that.

                This is green bay all over again. They barely changed their players, except adding woodsen, and look at what they are doing now.
                Yeah we can't seem to buy an INT. One was questionable and the other is by a DT. I don't understand how we can't have more INTs.....well, I DO understand why, but it's still tough to swallow.

                Shanny better watch the game film from the SD NE game last week and realize he better pressure the hell out of Cassell. But......he'll probably be the latest QB to have over 70% completion and 110 QB rating and we'll make him look he's Pro-Bowl worthy. Damn I hope not

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by emac87 View Post
                  Yeah we can't seem to buy an INT. One was questionable and the other is by a DT. I don't understand how we can't have more INTs.....well, I DO understand why, but it's still tough to swallow.

                  Shanny better watch the game film from the SD NE game last week and realize he better pressure the hell out of Cassell. But......he'll probably be the latest QB to have over 70% completion and 110 QB rating and we'll make him look he's Pro-Bowl worthy. Damn I hope not
                  we can pretend its not going to happen, lol when in reality you know its going to come true... denver made damon huard look good... DAMON HUARD!!!

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                  • #10
                    There are two primary reasons for our defense being as bad as it is. One is clearly lack of talent. But the second, and the more important one, is lack of a clear vision on defense.

                    I've lost track of the number of times I've heard Champ talk about how the defense lacked a true identity. I think if Shanahan can trust someone to run a defense and leave them alone for a couple of years, that together with our improved recent drafting gives us a good chance to build a solid defense.
                    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                      There are two primary reasons for our defense being as bad as it is. One is clearly lack of talent. But the second, and the more important one, is lack of a clear vision on defense.

                      I've lost track of the number of times I've heard Champ talk about how the defense lacked a true identity. I think if Shanahan can trust someone to run a defense and leave them alone for a couple of years, that together with our improved recent drafting gives us a good chance to build a solid defense.
                      I agree with this. Although Slowik may not be the best coordinator, if he sticks around a few years and we develop good young players thru the draft, we will start bearing the fruits of our labors, so to speak.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by emac87 View Post
                        I agree with this. Although Slowik may not be the best coordinator, if he sticks around a few years and we develop good young players thru the draft, we will start bearing the fruits of our labors, so to speak.
                        thats a huge IF... we all know denver can't draft defense... at all

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                          all i know is we dont have top 5 defensive talent as a unit...but we certainly have better talent as a group then 30th overall

                          pretty simply

                          Cant say I agree here.


                          I have come to the conclusion that outside DJ and Champ.....no other player on our defense would start on the vast majority of NFL teams.

                          Nate Webster?

                          MAYBE MAYBE Boss Bailey would, but it would only be for the two games he was healthy.

                          Both our safeties are scrubs. I am convinced we have THE WORST safety tandem in the NFL. By far.


                          D Line? MAYBE Thomas, on a team like the Bengals.

                          It's just a frustrating lack of talent.
                          sigpic

                          And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gr3yStreet View Post
                            Cant say I agree here.


                            I have come to the conclusion that outside DJ and Champ.....no other player on our defense would start on the vast majority of NFL teams.

                            Nate Webster?

                            MAYBE MAYBE Boss Bailey would, but it would only be for the two games he was healthy.

                            Both our safeties are scrubs. I am convinced we have THE WORST safety tandem in the NFL. By far.


                            D Line? MAYBE Thomas, on a team like the Bengals.

                            It's just a frustrating lack of talent.

                            its still to early to tell on thomas, crowder, and moss..

                            i think robertson would be starting on a lot of teams, same for dre bly

                            dumerville could possibly start on other teams as well..

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by basbllplaya26 View Post
                              thats a huge IF... we all know denver can't draft defense... at all
                              That's definitely painfully true. I had a discussion with my friend in the offseason around draft time and I remember saying that I think the root of the problems on defense is the scouting we do. You look at teams like SD, Baltimore, Jax, Buffalo, and TB and how good their defenses have been. One thing they all do well is draft good defensive players and they keep them around.

                              Instead of trading for a safety or DT, I say we trade for one of these team's scouts, or whomever decides who to draft.
                              It's kinda like that saying, I can give you fish and feed you for a day, or I can teach you to fish, and feed you for the rest of your life, or something like that..........
                              Last edited by emac87; 10-15-2008, 10:06 AM.

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