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Scheme, Coaches, Players????? What Gives

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  • Scheme, Coaches, Players????? What Gives

    i am still amazed at what went down with my team last night, but i for one am a true fan and will stick by whatever happens......

    many of us have spent countless hours trying to analyze whats up wit this team, and why we are having so many problems.

    We all have our Fire (insert player here) threads, and many want to attack slowik, and shanny, and even Jeremy bates, but the fact of the matter remains.

    at the end of the night you can blame who ever you want or what you want but it comes down to execution. if you turn the ball over you loose, if you dont stop the run and let the clock move you lose. these are 2 huge factors from last night. not to mention injuries.

    When you go down 13-0 and your qb has to handoff the ball still because he cant make a throw from injury, bad things are bound to happen. When your number 1 corner shuts down the top WR in the game, then leaves with injury, it shouldnt be a suprise plays are made. it also shouldnt be a suprise our run defense was horrid, but its not the talent as much as it is simple tackling. i dont think i have seen that many missed tackles from safties in ages.

    So back on topic....Whos at fault....players, coaches, or scheme.


    personally i blame the players, we have FA who arent earning ther money, and we have guys not playing with fire and passion. i dont think this is the scheme, we run blitzed and pass blitzed the crap out of NE last night and 90%of the time we were where we needed to be but execution was poor and tackling was a joke. Our players our inconsistent period. our Offens has guys that dont belong as well.

    if you want to blame people for where we are at people, blame the players playing the game. blame there lack of discipline, there lack of fundamentals, there lack of pride.


    Im tired of people always trying to scapegoat the coaches, at some point players have to be accountable for there actions and play, not the coach. changing coaches isnt going to change the talent level on this team. We need overhauls at some key postions on O and on defense.


    you want somone to blame for last night performance blame the players, period.

  • #2
    oh an 1 more thing, get rid of this freakin 3-4 defense it just flat out sucks and is also a huge factor to our crappy run defense, it shouldnt be a suprise we were horrible at stopping the run last year with eight in the box, what mnakes people think the 3-4 would be better???? anyways 90% of the rushing yds that caused damge against us have been in the 3-4 sooner or later. as shanny said the basics is what is needed with this defense.....

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    • #3
      Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
      oh an 1 more thing, get rid of this freakin 3-4 defense it just flat out sucks and is also a huge factor to our crappy run defense, it shouldnt be a suprise we were horrible at stopping the run last year with eight in the box, what mnakes people think the 3-4 would be better???? anyways 90% of the rushing yds that caused damge against us have been in the 3-4 sooner or later. as shanny said the basics is what is needed with this defense.....
      it wasn't the 3-4... it was the over pursuing linebackers... they would have over pursued in the 4-3 or the 3-4

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      • #4
        How about poor tackling? How many weak @$$ arm tackles did we see last night? That is a discipline and coaching issue and if a player refuses to form tackle-PULL HIM!

        IMO this defense is just devoid of talent save Champ and DJ. Nate is playing better and getting better but is not the answer long term a MLB or quite the caliber we need.

        There is a saying for teams who use 2 QB's. They say if you are using 2 QB's you don't have 1. Same goes for our D! We don't have one! Be 4-3, or 3-4 but to try to be both just wont cut it.

        In the end, Shanny promised all off season and TC that the emphasis would be stopping the run. At one point he made the comment that if that required 11 in the box we would do it. Well...let's see it. Let's STOP the run. Teams are passing all over us any way. Let's just stop the run.

        But we cannot run two separate defenses because when you do, you are proclaiming the fact that your Defense has NO IDNETITY!

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        • #5
          i'm gonna have a sour taste in my mouth....for 2 weeks!!!

          ^Freyaka^


          Signature Courtesy of B4Bronco6

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          • #6
            Don't forget Elvis and Ebbie!

            Originally posted by jhildebrand View Post
            How about poor tackling? How many weak @$$ arm tackles did we see last night? That is a discipline and coaching issue and if a player refuses to form tackle-PULL HIM!

            IMO this defense is just devoid of talent save Champ and DJ. Nate is playing better and getting better but is not the answer long term a MLB or quite the caliber we need.

            There is a saying for teams who use 2 QB's. They say if you are using 2 QB's you don't have 1. Same goes for our D! We don't have one! Be 4-3, or 3-4 but to try to be both just wont cut it.

            In the end, Shanny promised all off season and TC that the emphasis would be stopping the run. At one point he made the comment that if that required 11 in the box we would do it. Well...let's see it. Let's STOP the run. Teams are passing all over us any way. Let's just stop the run.

            But we cannot run two separate defenses because when you do, you are proclaiming the fact that your Defense has NO IDNETITY!
            I just posted this on Dumervil's blog, but I think the Broncos need a new defensive coordinator. Coyer a couple of years ago managed to put the Broncos at the top of the defensive rankings, and then that went all to hell later in the season. Get rid of Zone Defense! It doesn't work! Broncos have some of the best defensive players in the game, but they aren't gonna do anything if they have to halt on an invisible boundary and go after the next guy entering their territory. Champ was indeed a "champ" when he was allowed to cross the field and get in front of the guy Darrent was covering and often picked off the ball. Now it's like the guy is stuck in a cage. Get rid of Slowik, he's indeed very "slow".

            Oh and also, there's much to be said about "Up The Middle Shanahan". Good grief.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by basbllplaya26 View Post
              it wasn't the 3-4... it was the over pursuing linebackers... they would have over pursued in the 4-3 or the 3-4

              maybe but for the season our worst rushes against us have come in the 3-4 scheme.

              as hilderbrand said we our a 4-3 team and we need to stick with that identity

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              • #8
                It is scheme and coaching. Period. We don't have "bad" players. We have studs in all three layers of the defense (Champ, DJ, Elvis). The Patriots won 3 superbowls (with defense) without having superstars. In one of them, their entire secondary except for Harrison was backups. Past and present guys like Vrabel, Samuel, McGinnis and Bruschi are a product of the system and not top performers. The defense plays well as a unit, not as individuals.

                The only real "playmaker" they have is Richard Seymour. Wilfork is a solid NT, but he isn't the best in the game. Rodney Harrison brings a lot of attitude and smarts, but he's not really any better than John Lynch was when he left and he gets nicked up a lot. For all the money they're paying Adalius Thomas, he's actually underperforming a lot. Mayo looks solid but he's no Ray Lewis, yet.

                Their scheme is what makes them successful. It's time to bring in a real defensive guru to right the ship - BRING IN MIKE NOLAN NOW!!!!!!

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                • #9
                  The Defense

                  The problem is the players, if you play like you don't want to win that's what happens. It's not the 3-4 or the 4-3 it's players not earning their money! Arm tackling all night long, missing tackles all night long, the coaches can't make tackles from the side lines and players were in position, Dre Bly,Nate Webster, and the list goes on. I hate that a lot of people have never played football before and think that they know what their talking about.

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                  • #10
                    There were players that were put into position to make plays- credit scheme

                    The players who were in position failed to make the plays- blame players

                    It's a two way street but there is no denying that the players on defense failed miserably when they had to make the play. Now we're faced with improving our defense minus our best defensive player. I would love to sit here and tell everyone what my moves would be but it won't make a bit of difference. However, I do expect MAJOR shake-ups to several positions following the bye week. I look forward to seeing several young players starting on defense against Miami.
                    " A kickers success is dependent upon his teams failure"...by SorryAss ChargerFans

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
                      It is scheme and coaching. Period. We don't have "bad" players. We have studs in all three layers of the defense (Champ, DJ, Elvis). The Patriots won 3 superbowls (with defense) without having superstars. In one of them, their entire secondary except for Harrison was backups. Past and present guys like Vrabel, Samuel, McGinnis and Bruschi are a product of the system and not top performers. The defense plays well as a unit, not as individuals.

                      The only real "playmaker" they have is Richard Seymour. Wilfork is a solid NT, but he isn't the best in the game. Rodney Harrison brings a lot of attitude and smarts, but he's not really any better than John Lynch was when he left and he gets nicked up a lot. For all the money they're paying Adalius Thomas, he's actually underperforming a lot. Mayo looks solid but he's no Ray Lewis, yet.

                      Their scheme is what makes them successful. It's time to bring in a real defensive guru to right the ship - BRING IN MIKE NOLAN NOW!!!!!!

                      this is exactly right.....

                      look we can all blame the so called lack of talent...its easy...we got no talent

                      but the reality is...we have talent..we have some talented defnsive players...we dont have megastars....but what we have should be better then

                      30th ranked overall defense
                      30th ranked in total yards
                      28th in passing yards
                      29th in rushing yards
                      31st in scoreing

                      its totaly unacceptable to lay blame for this
                      because we have no talent....again we dont have mega stars, but by no means should the guys we have be this friggen horrid

                      we have just as much talent as coyer had and we was never this bad

                      when people say their not tacklin...true...but proper coaching takes care of that doesnt it...when we say thier uninspired...proper coaching helps that doesnt it...when we say thier confused...proper coaching helps that

                      when people ***** about mcree and manual..remember the DC selected them ...when we gripe about lowery...remember the Dc benched mcree for him
                      sigpic
                      when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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                      • #12
                        We also have the best Offense, but Bates is just screwing up Shanny's playbook and coddling Cutler.

                        Shanny just needs to go back to what worked in the past and thats not rely on a OC at all.

                        Shanny has been known as the best QB coach, i mean for someone to turn a goose egg like Plummer into a decent QB that says something about how well Shanny teaches QB.s


                        He needs to rail Cutler about all his stupid mistakes and give him a lession on shutting his trap. Honestly what he's said about his arm compared to elways (mis context due to ESPN and how they love to spin crap) he needs to pull cutler to the side, or have Elway talk to him.

                        I mean I'll give Cutler props playing hurt with his index finger, but still he needs Shanny to beraite him about the dumb mistakes he's made in the past 4games.

                        Still most of the blame cant be put on him, the run game flat out sucks, theres no stud and Torrain is not gonna be a stud either, other then just apart of the comittee.

                        Shanny needs to backhand Bates for the cuitsey plays and go back to the basics, pound the ball, short passes and moving the chains.
                        McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                        Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

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                        • #13
                          for the record i never said talent was to blame just the players, i am tired of players getting free passes in losses, they were uninspired, undisciplined, and had no passion or fire.


                          they get paid millions to do a job and they werent doing it. they were coached just fine on how to do it, it was the piss poor execution period!!!!

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                          • #14
                            it has to be a combination of both, i mean no matter who we bring in to coach does a terrible job, but i also believe that part of it is because of players

                            i mean personally i think we should have kept bates and give him a little longer than 7 or so weeks and a couple draft picks to implement his scheme that has been proven EVERYWHERE but here, coincidence . . . i think not

                            now we move on to slowick who is absolutely been terrible against every aspect of an offense, and add in that we have avg players at best, and you have quite possibly the worst D in the history of me watching football

                            i say we bring in a new proven DC let him do his thing for over a year and see where that gets us. because while i dont think that the revolving door is helping us in the least, slowick is NOT the answer here.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
                              it has to be a combination of both, i mean no matter who we bring in to coach does a terrible job, but i also believe that part of it is because of players

                              i mean personally i think we should have kept bates and give him a little longer than 7 or so weeks and a couple draft picks to implement his scheme that has been proven EVERYWHERE but here, coincidence . . . i think not

                              now we move on to slowick who is absolutely been terrible against every aspect of an offense, and add in that we have avg players at best, and you have quite possibly the worst D in the history of me watching football

                              i say we bring in a new proven DC let him do his thing for over a year and see where that gets us. because while i dont think that the revolving door is helping us in the least, slowick is NOT the answer here.

                              I am against changing DC again not because I think slowick is the answer but mainly because no matter what we'll be here week 7 next year talking about who we're going to get next, no coach will come here because they know that's how things work. I don't mind bringing in someone like nolan to run things but if they were to bring someone new in the sure as heck better stick with him for at least 1-2 years or nothing will change.
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