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  • Stronger arm versus desire to win

    I am addressing the recent remarks by Cutler that his arm is stronger than Elway's. I am a huge Cutler fan, so I want to help nurture this discussion toward a positive end.

    Even if it were true, Elway would have hit D-Jack in stride on that interception last night btw, Elway's arm was not his greatest asset. What Cutler needs to find is a sense of urgency, a desire to win.

    His statement after the Jacksonville loss that "there is no need to panic, we're 4-2 and the season is long" spiel would have sounded more like "I can't believe they came in to our house and beat us two years in a row. That hurts my pride and I swear it won't ever happen again if I have anything to say about it" if it had come out of Elway.

    The record is not the reason to panic. I understand that morale must remain intact. You can't get too down on yourself and the season IS long. That is why you need to start getting pissed off. You need to watch tape of that look in Elway's eyes as he was executing another comeback victory. You need to use your arm as a tool to TAKE wins where there doesn't appear to be any chance. That is what Elway had on you kid. That is what we all hope to see starting week 9. You are going to have down weeks. It's how you rebound that defines you as a player and as a Denver quarterback. Git-r-dun #6.

    Greatness is defined less by who has a stronger arm than by who has the stronger will.
    Last edited by armchair scout; 10-21-2008, 03:18 PM.
    vote HILLIS in 2009!

  • #2
    I think the Elway and even the Rivers comments shows how immature Cutler still is, and how lucky we were that, even through some tough times, Elway kept his composure and (at least for media consumption) always said and did the right things.

    I think Tom Jackson stated it best last night. As good as Cutler may be, he's not even in the same league as Elway, and needs to deflect questions regarding comparisons to Elway until he is at that level (if it ever happens).

    I think there's a huge upside to Cutler. But he's walking a fine line right now.
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    • #3
      Great post.

      On the throw to D Jax, it was a desperation throw and Cutler didnt really have any chance throwing that.

      The intensity to win may not be there because he hasnt had a winning season since high school. Dont get me wrong, I think he will have on this year w/ a possible playoff appearance if things go ok.

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      • #4
        I truely believe that Cutler has just as much desire to win as Elway did. There I said it! It's weird how the media can ask a question and than spin it so it looks like he was walking around running his mouth.
        Yes, he has some growing up to do but I think that he's shown what compossure is. His teammates believe in him and that is all that really matters to be honest.
        " A kickers success is dependent upon his teams failure"...by SorryAss ChargerFans

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DiegoBRONCOFAN View Post
          I truely believe that Cutler has just as much desire to win as Elway did. There I said it! It's weird how the media can ask a question and than spin it so it looks like he was walking around running his mouth.
          Yes, he has some growing up to do but I think that he's shown what compossure is. His teammates believe in him and that is all that really matters to be honest.
          Well, produciton on the field and winning games actually matter more. His teammates believing in him will be a symptom of those first two primary goals.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by DiegoBRONCOFAN View Post
            I truely believe that Cutler has just as much desire to win as Elway did. There I said it! It's weird how the media can ask a question and than spin it so it looks like he was walking around running his mouth.
            Yes, he has some growing up to do but I think that he's shown what compossure is. His teammates believe in him and that is all that really matters to be honest.
            Nobody in NFL history wanted to win more than Elway did. He was like Michael Jordan, what gave them the edge was how competitive they were. Cutler could have an arm comparable to Elways but he doesn't have half the will to win that Elway did. Cutler want's to win but Elway NEEDED to win. I forget who beat him... But I remember Elway was undefeated on his pool table and somebody finally beat him and the next day he sold it. Elway was just a different breed.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by armchair scout View Post
              I am addressing the recent remarks by Cutler that his arm is stronger than Elway's. I am a huge Cutler fan, so I want to help nurture this discussion toward a positive end.

              Even if it were true, Elway would have hit D-Jack in stride on that interception last night btw, Elway's arm was not his greatest asset. What Cutler needs to find is a sense of urgency, a desire to win.

              His statement after the Jacksonville loss that "there is no need to panic, we're 4-2 and the season is long" spiel would have sounded more like "I can't believe they came in to our house and beat us two years in a row. That hurts my pride and I swear it won't ever happen again if I have anything to say about it" if it had come out of Elway.

              The record is not the reason to panic. I understand that morale must remain intact. You can't get too down on yourself and the season IS long. That is why you need to start getting pissed off. You need to watch tape of that look in Elway's eyes as he was executing another comeback victory. You need to use your arm as a tool to TAKE wins where there doesn't appear to be any chance. That is what Elway had on you kid. That is what we all hope to see starting week 9. You are going to have down weeks. It's how you rebound that defines you as a player and as a Denver quarterback. Git-r-dun #6.

              Greatness is defined less by who has a stronger arm than by who has the stronger will.
              his arm is stronger than elway's so is vick's

              in the nfl you need to be smart , and clutch

              i don't think he'll ever be either of that, but unless denver has ADD, he'll have over a decade more to prove me wrong
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              • #8
                Originally posted by jcdavey View Post
                his arm is stronger than elway's so is vick's

                in the nfl you need to be smart , and clutch

                i don't think he'll ever be either of that, but unless denver has ADD, he'll have over a decade more to prove me wrong
                Yep, Rivers was very clutch against the Bills

                Cutler is both, but when you start the game off with two turnovers that kills all momentum going for you.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by armchair scout View Post
                  What Cutler needs to find is a sense of urgency, a desire to win.
                  AMEN. Agree 100%.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cutler7624 View Post
                    Nobody in NFL history wanted to win more than Elway did. He was like Michael Jordan, what gave them the edge was how competitive they were. Cutler could have an arm comparable to Elways but he doesn't have half the will to win that Elway did. Cutler want's to win but Elway NEEDED to win. I forget who beat him... But I remember Elway was undefeated on his pool table and somebody finally beat him and the next day he sold it. Elway was just a different breed.
                    I know that I can't sit here and argue that Cutler is this or that in comparrison to Elway but just how do you reach this conclussion so fast as to Cutler not wanting to win more. If I'm not mistaken, the will to win only increases as a players career marches forward. Elway NEEDED to win because he was simply brakeing down physically. I think when Elway first entered the league he was just a young gunner as well. I think by Cutlers fifth season that we'll all be talking about him differently.
                    " A kickers success is dependent upon his teams failure"...by SorryAss ChargerFans

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DiegoBRONCOFAN View Post
                      I think by Cutlers fifth season that we'll all be talking about him differently.
                      And that is the reason for this post. I believe he will get it done and I am all for watching him develop. I just think someone has to challenge him to steal wins. They aren't going to fall into your lap. You have to hi-jack the other team and make them lose sometimes. It is the same principle as making third down conversions. The quarterback is paid to make them, the defense is paid to stop them. Elway's eyes got about three times wider and he made it happen regardless of defense, his line, his receivers, the other team's power rankings, injury, or anything else. This is the next hurdle for Cutler and I believe he has to make it happen at least once this year.

                      Elway's needing to win against the Browns in the 80's had nothing to do with his body breaking down. he had to win because he HATED to lose. Perhaps that is more important than a desire to win. It may seem like the same thing, but Cutler seems to enjoy winning and feel indifferent toward losing. He'll figure it out.
                      Last edited by armchair scout; 10-21-2008, 03:53 PM. Reason: spelling
                      vote HILLIS in 2009!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jcdavey View Post
                        his arm is stronger than elway's so is vick's

                        in the nfl you need to be smart , and clutch

                        i don't think he'll ever be either of that, but unless denver has ADD, he'll have over a decade more to prove me wrong
                        No one needs to prove anything to you. You are insignificant. And based on your assessment of Cutler, also seem to be seriously lacking in sound judgement.

                        As to the main topic of this thread, Shanahan has repeatedly said that the biggest attribute of Cutler that he admires isn't the arm, isn't the technique, isn't the intelligence, or the mobility (all of which he possesses), but Cutler's competitiveness. Shanahan has been around Elway, Montana, Young, and Jerry Rice. I'm guessing he knows a thing or two about a player's competitiveness and desire to win.

                        Cutler has all the tools he needs to be successful, both tangible and intangible. All he needs is patience and time to continue to develop. He carried our team last year almost single-handedly (with almost any QB other than Cutler, we're no better than a four or five win team last year). My guess is that a lot of his problems with forcing throws stem from having to carry Vanderbilt single-handedly. As he learns to trust his offensive system and unlearns some of his bad habits, he is going to get progressively better.

                        We have a luxury few teams in the NFL have - a playmaker at the QB positions (instead of the game managers a lot of teams have to rely on). Let's give him some time.
                        Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by armchair scout View Post
                          And that is the reason for this post. I believe he will get it done and I am all for watching him develop. I just think someone has to challenge him to steal wins. They aren't going to fall into your lap. You have to hi-jack the other team and make them lose sometimes. It is the same principle as making third down conversions. The quarterback is paid to make them, the defense is paid to stop them. Elway's eyes got about three times wider and he made it happen regardless of defense, his line, his receivers, the other team's power rankings, injury, or anything else. This is the next hurdle for Cutler and I believe he has to make it happen at least once this year.

                          Elway's needing to win against the Browns in the 80's had nothing to do with his body breaking down. he had to win because he HATED to lose. Perhaps that is more important than a desire to win. It may seem like the same thing, but Cutler seems to enjoy winning and feel indifferent toward losing. He'll figure it out.
                          He wasn't too peachy in his presser last night which tells me that he isn't happy with loseing. That's a good thing! I truely believe that his competitiveness and sense of urgency will build as he matures and will hopefully allow us to end these silly arguements once and for all.
                          " A kickers success is dependent upon his teams failure"...by SorryAss ChargerFans

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                          • #14
                            Somebody explain this: If Cutler did not really want to win, why would he play most of the game with a finger injury that made throwing extremly difficult? A quarterback who does not want to win would say, "I can't play anymore," and go straight to the trainer for treatment while his backup finished the game. At the the Cutler got hurt, he did not even leave the field or call timeout to talk. Would a guy who is not committed to winning games play most of the game if he could not throw the ball accurately?

                            His press conference after the game was proof he was very upset about that loss. He always looked down, not at the media, and did not say much, clearly not interested in talking to reporters. A quarterback who does not care about winning and losing would not act the way he did during a press conference. It was a symptom of immaturity but also sent a clear message he wants to win.

                            Elway needed to win in Cleveland because it was the AFC Championship and a quarterback like him would never give up during a playoff game, especially the one that sends his team to the Super Bowl. What do you expect when teams are trying to win the conference championship? Put Cutler in a game like that and you will see him try to win the whole 60-70 minutes.

                            I wish Broncos fans would stop being so hard on Cutler. He is only 25 and has played in the NFL about three years. If you are a true Broncos fan, you want to support your quarterback and respect him for what he is.

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                            • #15
                              wait until we have a defense and see what people think about cutler.

                              Right now he knows he has to make big plays and score every drive to keep us in the game otherwise the other team is going to run away with it. I think once we get a defense that can even the field he won't have to rush things and may stop trying to force as many dumb passes (that'll come with time anyways he's essentially in his second year as a starter) I think he's going to be just fine with more time to develop.
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