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  • Karl Paymah

    I'm probably going to get some heat for this around here, but I think Paymah can be a very good NFL CB. I think he has all the tools and looks like a quiet, hardworking guy.

    However, can someone please, please, please tell him to at least look at the ball once? In almost all the receptions he has allowed, you see him right next to the receiver, but he just doesn't make a play on the ball or get his hands up in time, because he doesn't seem to know where the ball is.

    Now I'm far from being a DB coaching guru, but it seems to me like he is unable to find the right balance of just how physical to be. He came in with a reputation of being a very physical corner at Washington State and seemed to have trouble adjusting to the pass-interference rules in the pros, getting called for a lot of PI. Coyer would reportedly have him practise covering receivers in practice with boxing mitts on his hands to keep him from grabbing the receiver. He has gotten better in this respect, though he still gets called for PI much more than the average CB. I think part of this has to do with him just acquiring that reputation, so coaches are more likely to throw the flag than if it were Champ or Asomugha. I remember at least one terrible PI call in the SD game and another that should have been offensive PI, both times when he was covering Chambers.

    However, it appears to me that by and large he is constantly thinking about not getting his hands on the receiver. As a result, he doesn't use his hands at all, or atleast not until the receiver has caught the ball. It's frustrating to watch because I see the receiver complete the catch on Paymah and he's right there! It's not that he gets beat, he just doesn't make the play! He seems to do everything but knock the ball away.

    This is my reading of Paymah. I think he can be a very solid #2 who doesn't get a lot of picks, but doesn't allow too many completions either, if he coud just correct this one thing.

    What do you guys think? Am I way off base on this one?
    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

  • #2
    WOW... these blinders some of you guys have about paymah boggles the mind! He is simply TERRIBLE... in his sometimes roll as a nickle back he has been a miserable failure... when he has been pressed into playing cornerback it has been nothing but a disaster... when the other team gets into the redzone the dude gives a huge cushion, then when the play starts he practically backs right out the tunnels under the stands.... As far as I know he is just kinda back there not really doing much, either watching guys go by him with the ball or maybe once in a while helping make a tackle down field after the huge cushion he allows lets the guy he was covering make an easy catch and run.....

    Comment


    • #3
      I like Paymah on special teams, but that's where it ends. If he was a little bigger, I'd say try him at safety, because safeties can afford to give a little more cushion. But at CB he's hopeless. No eye for watching the ball, and regularly out of position to make a play.

      He's got talent, but hasn't demonstrated any ability to use it as an NFL CB.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by horsehead41 View Post
        WOW... these blinders some of you guys have about paymah boggles the mind! He is simply TERRIBLE... in his sometimes roll as a nickle back he has been a miserable failure... when he has been pressed into playing cornerback it has been nothing but a disaster... when the other team gets into the redzone the dude gives a huge cushion, then when the play starts he practically backs right out the tunnels under the stands.... As far as I know he is just kinda back there not really doing much, either watching guys go by him with the ball or maybe once in a while helping make a tackle down field after the huge cushion he allows lets the guy he was covering make an easy catch and run.....
        Paymah has been our #3 CB, but he has very rarely covered the slot WR. Starting last season when he beat Foxworth for the #3 CB job (thanks mainly to his being better at man coverage, while Foxworth is a much better at zone coverage), everytime he came in for the nickel, Bly moved inside to take the slot WR and Paymah played on the right side.

        He is also the guy who gives the least amount of cushion out of all our CBs. You must have him confused with Bly or Foxworth, both of whom give large cushions to their receivers. Paymah is the only guy on our team who even tries to bump the receiver.

        Also, we seem to play a lot more zone coverage as we get to the red zone. That might be the reason you see him off the receiver at times. But while he does play off quite a bit, he bumps his receiver more so than any other corner on this team.
        Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bronco_Hyde View Post
          I like Paymah on special teams, but that's where it ends. If he was a little bigger, I'd say try him at safety, because safeties can afford to give a little more cushion. But at CB he's hopeless. No eye for watching the ball, and regularly out of position to make a play.

          He's got talent, but hasn't demonstrated any ability to use it as an NFL CB.
          I see what you're saying, but I doubt he makes a good safety. I think there's a reason we tried Foxworth at safety even though Paymah is more suited in terms of size to make the switch. I think it's because Paymah is largely a man-coverage corner, and his lack of zone coverage skills make him a poor prospect at safety (unlike Foxworth who transitioned well and would have done even better if he had put on some weight and made the switch permanent).

          I also kinda disagree about Paymah being out of position a lot. I think he gets lost a few times in zone coverage, though that appears to happen to our back seven (minus Champ) quite often. I think your comment about his eye for the ball is the point I'm trying to make. That seems to me to be a technique issue that should be correctable.
          Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AC1 View Post
            I'm probably going to get some heat for this around here, but I think Paymah can be a very good NFL CB. I think he has all the tools and looks like a quiet, hardworking guy.

            However, can someone please, please, please tell him to at least look at the ball once? In almost all the receptions he has allowed, you see him right next to the receiver, but he just doesn't make a play on the ball or get his hands up in time, because he doesn't seem to know where the ball is.

            Now I'm far from being a DB coaching guru, but it seems to me like he is unable to find the right balance of just how physical to be. He came in with a reputation of being a very physical corner at Washington State and seemed to have trouble adjusting to the pass-interference rules in the pros, getting called for a lot of PI. Coyer would reportedly have him practise covering receivers in practice with boxing mitts on his hands to keep him from grabbing the receiver. He has gotten better in this respect, though he still gets called for PI much more than the average CB. I think part of this has to do with him just acquiring that reputation, so coaches are more likely to throw the flag than if it were Champ or Asomugha. I remember at least one terrible PI call in the SD game and another that should have been offensive PI, both times when he was covering Chambers.

            However, it appears to me that by and large he is constantly thinking about not getting his hands on the receiver. As a result, he doesn't use his hands at all, or atleast not until the receiver has caught the ball. It's frustrating to watch because I see the receiver complete the catch on Paymah and he's right there! It's not that he gets beat, he just doesn't make the play! He seems to do everything but knock the ball away.

            This is my reading of Paymah. I think he can be a very solid #2 who doesn't get a lot of picks, but doesn't allow too many completions either, if he coud just correct this one thing.

            What do you guys think? Am I way off base on this one?
            i'm with you... i think paymah will be a great corner for us. I think this is his time to shine, along with the rest of the backups making there starts this week

            Comment


            • #7
              OK... you guys that are defending paymah are just doing so because your blinded by your orange and blue goggles.... The truth of the matter is, he has been on this team for a while now.. four years.. and every one of those years he has been awful.. he is just does not have the talent, period.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by horsehead41 View Post
                OK... you guys that are defending paymah are just doing so because your blinded by your orange and blue goggles.... The truth of the matter is, he has been on this team for a while now.. four years.. and every one of those years he has been awful.. he is just does not have the talent, period.
                sorry but i'm a firm believer that it takes a corner a while to develop in the nfl.. much like qb, de,dt and wr... which usually take about 3 years

                Comment


                • #9
                  Paymah has all the abilities to be a solid corner in this league, but still makes rookie mistakes when he comes in. If he was ever given consistent reps he would adapt quickly and do well.
                  + Speed, quickness and strength to play anyone
                  - A little to physical(hands as mentioned)
                  - Too much focus on the player and doesn't look for the ball
                  / Solid tackler but can be juked easily

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Denver Posts reports today(10/31) that Paymah will be starting in place of Champ this Sunday against MIA. As previously noted, I think he has all the tools to do well, but has not had the opportunity to develop himself nor the coaching to lead him(Some [email protected]$$ was the DB coach from 05-07 The first three years of Paymahs pro career). Paymah had two picks in his three starts last year and is a solid man-coverage CB with top speed. Hopefully this will be his opportunity to show what he can do and possibly replace Bly next year.

                    Good luck Paymah
                    Last edited by sage; 10-31-2008, 04:23 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Paymah, most of the time, sticks with his WR. But he lacks awareness, fails to locate the ball and commits penalties. Many times he is close from making a big play but it just does not happen. I think he is not much different from Foxworth.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                        Paymah, most of the time, sticks with his WR. But he lacks awareness, fails to locate the ball and commits penalties. Many times he is close from making a big play but it just does not happen. I think he is not much different from Foxworth.
                        They both (Foxy and Paymah) have all the abilities, but remained unpolished after 3yrs in the NFL. Paymah has always shown he's right there for the play, but makes rookie-mental errors. Think it had anything to do with their DB coach?

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