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Turnover and sack problem...I disagree with the coordinator on this one

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  • Turnover and sack problem...I disagree with the coordinator on this one

    http://www.gazette.com/sports/bronco...d_lacking.html

    Turnovers and sacks have been lacking for Broncos
    November 27, 2008 - 9:21 PM
    FRANK SCHWAB
    THE GAZETTE
    ENGLEWOOD • Champ Bailey notices that other defenses make big plays.

    "It's funny, you watch TV a lot and you see all these other teams getting these sacks and turnovers all kinds of ways," the Denver Broncos cornerback said. "I know the ball is going to bounce our way sooner or later."

    Sacks, fumbles and interceptions haven't come often for the defense this season. Denver hasn't had a sack in three weeks, has four interceptions all season and has recovered only one fumble in five games.

    The are 5-0 when they are even or better in turnover margin. They are 1-5 when they lose the turnover battle. The team is 31st in the NFL with a minus-12 turnover margin.

    "Anytime you're 31st in the league in turnovers, you're lucky to be 6-5," coach Mike Shanahan said. "That doesn't happen very often."

    The could make things a lot easier on themselves if they started to make big plays. Getting a consistent pass rush could be the first step toward that.

    Denver didn't have much of a chance to rush the quarterback last Sunday against the Oakland Raiders. JaMarcus Russell passed only 11 times. The defense's 20 sacks are tied for 22nd in the league.

    A re-emergence by end Elvis Dumervil would help the pass rush. Dumervil had 21 sacks in his first two seasons, but broke a finger in the preseason and has only three sacks after a slow start. He had two sacks against New England and one against Tampa Bay.
    "It's been real frustrating," he said. "I haven't gotten in a rhythm."

    A stellar pass rush usually leads to turnovers. Denver's last interception - at Atlanta two weeks ago - was partly the result of an effective blitz. Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan had to rush his throw, and cornerback Dre Bly picked it off.

    Something they weren't able to do against the Raiders is get an early lead, which would have forced Oakland to throw the ball more. Defensive coordinator Bob Slowik said getting early leads could bring more chances at turnovers.

    "You've got to get in a mode where you get a lead or maybe you're stoning the run and they're throwing it up in the air a bunch, and that's where big plays usually come," Slowik said.


    If the can put the Jets in an early hole Sunday, New York quarterback Brett Favre might force some passes. Favre holds the NFL record for interceptions.

    "Hopefully with Brett back there, he's going to give you an opportunity to make plays," Bly said. "Hopefully we can take advantage of it and make some plays."

    There's no doubt that turnovers would make things easier on the team, giving the offense better field position and perhaps generating points off an interception or fumble.

    "It would be a great pick-me-up," Slowik said. "We've gotten better in the run game and we're kind of lacking in the turnovers that could help the offense. That would be a major lift."

    CanDB's comments:

    I have been easy on the D Coordinator, but I bolded a section above that kind of bothers me. You can get turnovers / sacks when you are leading, tied or behind. Sure, having a lead forces the other team to "sometimes" change their gameplan (clearly, the farther behind the more likely the change), but that's a pretty lame view of our dismal rate of TOs / sacks this season. Defenses create those outcomes, and don't wait for their Offenses to get leads. I know what he is getting at, but that's not the answer I want from my D guy. I want him to make things happen, and leave the O out of the equation. Stoning the run was more in line with what I expect. But even in that regard, force some fumbles!!

    Of course you'll get more chances if you build up a big lead, but I think we all know that.

    Sorry...looking for more proactive playmaking....

  • #2
    I typically dont call certain players or coaches out but it just seem like Slowik has absolutely no clue what he is doing, listen to him talk, its kinda painful.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by CanDB View Post
      http://www.gazette.com/sports/bronco...d_lacking.html

      Turnovers and sacks have been lacking for Broncos
      November 27, 2008 - 9:21 PM
      FRANK SCHWAB
      THE GAZETTE
      ENGLEWOOD • Champ Bailey notices that other defenses make big plays.

      "It's funny, you watch TV a lot and you see all these other teams getting these sacks and turnovers all kinds of ways," the Denver Broncos cornerback said. "I know the ball is going to bounce our way sooner or later."

      Sacks, fumbles and interceptions haven't come often for the defense this season. Denver hasn't had a sack in three weeks, has four interceptions all season and has recovered only one fumble in five games.

      The are 5-0 when they are even or better in turnover margin. They are 1-5 when they lose the turnover battle. The team is 31st in the NFL with a minus-12 turnover margin.

      "Anytime you're 31st in the league in turnovers, you're lucky to be 6-5," coach Mike Shanahan said. "That doesn't happen very often."

      The could make things a lot easier on themselves if they started to make big plays. Getting a consistent pass rush could be the first step toward that.

      Denver didn't have much of a chance to rush the quarterback last Sunday against the Oakland Raiders. JaMarcus Russell passed only 11 times. The defense's 20 sacks are tied for 22nd in the league.

      A re-emergence by end Elvis Dumervil would help the pass rush. Dumervil had 21 sacks in his first two seasons, but broke a finger in the preseason and has only three sacks after a slow start. He had two sacks against New England and one against Tampa Bay.
      "It's been real frustrating," he said. "I haven't gotten in a rhythm."

      A stellar pass rush usually leads to turnovers. Denver's last interception - at Atlanta two weeks ago - was partly the result of an effective blitz. Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan had to rush his throw, and cornerback Dre Bly picked it off.

      Something they weren't able to do against the Raiders is get an early lead, which would have forced Oakland to throw the ball more. Defensive coordinator Bob Slowik said getting early leads could bring more chances at turnovers.

      "You've got to get in a mode where you get a lead or maybe you're stoning the run and they're throwing it up in the air a bunch, and that's where big plays usually come," Slowik said.


      If the can put the Jets in an early hole Sunday, New York quarterback Brett Favre might force some passes. Favre holds the NFL record for interceptions.

      "Hopefully with Brett back there, he's going to give you an opportunity to make plays," Bly said. "Hopefully we can take advantage of it and make some plays."

      There's no doubt that turnovers would make things easier on the team, giving the offense better field position and perhaps generating points off an interception or fumble.

      "It would be a great pick-me-up," Slowik said. "We've gotten better in the run game and we're kind of lacking in the turnovers that could help the offense. That would be a major lift."

      CanDB's comments:

      I have been easy on the D Coordinator, but I bolded a section above that kind of bothers me. You can get turnovers / sacks when you are leading, tied or behind. Sure, having a lead forces the other team to "sometimes" change their gameplan (clearly, the farther behind the more likely the change), but that's a pretty lame view of our dismal rate of TOs / sacks this season. Defenses create those outcomes, and don't wait for their Offenses to get leads. I know what he is getting at, but that's not the answer I want from my D guy. I want him to make things happen, and leave the O out of the equation. Stoning the run was more in line with what I expect. But even in that regard, force some fumbles!!

      Of course you'll get more chances if you build up a big lead, but I think we all know that.

      Sorry...looking for more proactive playmaking....

      I agree with you. On the point of the fumbles, our defense just doesn't try to strip the ball much. Watch Chicago or Pittsburgh, they try almost every play to strip the ball, or a well placed helmet on the ball.

      I have noticed we are trying more for the strip than last year, but rarely do we put a helmet on the ball. Our defense (contrary to what others say) is getting closer. Much better gap control and D-line keeping blockers off of LB's.

      We are getting there. We need to do a better job of hiding what we are doing though. We show our blitzes long before the ball is snapped.

      Do that, and turnovers will come.



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      • #4
        Hey Slowik. Why don't you help out the offense by actually doing your job and coming up with a game plan that actually allows the defense to make such plays.

        You can't intercept passes when you're 12 yards off the receiver all the time...and you can't sack the QB if you're not aggressive at the line at all.

        Maybe instead of talking about getting an early lead (which is up to the offense) talk about how your DEFENSE is going to come up with huge plays by actually showing up to a game... You know defenses can score touchdowns too....

        also, if your guys (or you in general) did their job right, our OWN offense wouldn't be forced to pass all the time to "catch up" in games...

        don't sit there and talk about getting early leads to force the opponent to pass more when that's exactly what our own offense has been forced to do because of your lack of coordinating...
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        DISCLAIMER: MY REVIEWS OFTEN CONTAIN SPOILERS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

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        • #5
          if you read his comments again, he didn't say the ONLY time to get turnovers is when you have the lead. He said that you get MORE chances at turnovers when you have a lead.... and he's right.

          When you get an early lead, teams throw the ball more. They are playing in catch up mode, and it allows your defense to pin their ears back, and the DBs to get more throws into the air.

          Fumbles out of the backfield are MUCH more rare than fumbles from teh QB when getting sackes, WR fumbling the ball after a reception and hit, or an INT.

          Not to mention, pass forcing the other team to be in passing mode gives up sacks, and a 3-n-out is basically a turnover. Sacks make it hard to get the first.

          So slowik didn't say anything stupid.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
            if you read his comments again, he didn't say the ONLY time to get turnovers is when you have the lead. He said that you get MORE chances at turnovers when you have a lead.... and he's right.

            When you get an early lead, teams throw the ball more. They are playing in catch up mode, and it allows your defense to pin their ears back, and the DBs to get more throws into the air.

            Fumbles out of the backfield are MUCH more rare than fumbles from teh QB when getting sackes, WR fumbling the ball after a reception and hit, or an INT.

            Not to mention, pass forcing the other team to be in passing mode gives up sacks, and a 3-n-out is basically a turnover. Sacks make it hard to get the first.

            So slowik didn't say anything stupid.
            Maybe so, Rav, but it's not the first article I've read where he makes a comment that sounds reactive vs proactive, and in this case I want to hear him say that we're going to manufacture outcomes, and not let the other guys feel comfortable. I agree with others on this, that we have to stop playing way off the receivers, otherwise tomorrow we're doomed. Favre ate up the Titans with a smart, tight pass game (and a solid run game as well), and they have a much better D, as you can imagine. And our blitz game seems random and sometimes ill conceived. I just can't believe our D is much worse in terms of talent than last year (especially before the injuries to Champ and DJ), when Doom was a sacking freak.

            Again, for me to comment is more than I want to do anymore this season, as I know it's like taking candy from a baby when it comes to how many folks will support anything that shoots down our D. Not my intention to stir things up. But if I was the coordinator, after the season he's had, I'd be working hard to do and say the right things.....not make some idle statement about getting a lead makes things easier.......

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
              Hey Slowik. Why don't you help out the offense by actually doing your job and coming up with a game plan that actually allows the defense to make such plays.

              You can't intercept passes when you're 12 yards off the receiver all the time...and you can't sack the QB if you're not aggressive at the line at all.

              Maybe instead of talking about getting an early lead (which is up to the offense) talk about how your DEFENSE is going to come up with huge plays by actually showing up to a game... You know defenses can score touchdowns too....

              also, if your guys (or you in general) did their job right, our OWN offense wouldn't be forced to pass all the time to "catch up" in games...

              don't sit there and talk about getting early leads to force the opponent to pass more when that's exactly what our own offense has been forced to do because of your lack of coordinating...
              I agree 100% :salute!:
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              • #8
                I think some people are in such a " I hate Slowik" mode that they want to invent reasons to argue with what he says or does. He didn't say anything that wasn't true.

                I wouldn't mind seeing Slowik get fired, but I think we can at least cut him some slack when he says something that's true. I think we can all agree that the chances for turnovers are increased when a team is passing the ball more than they are running it. The best way to force a team to pass the ball is to get an early lead and make them feel an urgency to score points.
                My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                You Mad Bro?
                Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                  if you read his comments again, he didn't say the ONLY time to get turnovers is when you have the lead. He said that you get MORE chances at turnovers when you have a lead.... and he's right.


                  So slowik didn't say anything stupid.
                  Yeah but we've had plenty of early leads and his coordinating hasn't come up even then. It just plays further off the ball.

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                  • #10
                    im not sure if this is bad logic or something, but from where im sitting you can cause a TO on EVERY PLAY no matter what the score is, run or pass, so playing with a lead is just some made up sh*t. for some reason i really dont like slowik at all

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cutler4thewin View Post
                      im not sure if this is bad logic or something, but from where im sitting you can cause a TO on EVERY PLAY no matter what the score is, run or pass, so playing with a lead is just some made up sh*t. for some reason i really dont like slowik at all
                      i can't imagine why.....
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                      DISCLAIMER: MY REVIEWS OFTEN CONTAIN SPOILERS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

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                      • #12
                        Give me a break, we had early leads each of the first 3 weeks and Slowik's D scheme was prevent and they gave up TD to make the game close again.

                        Slowik is a freaking sorry guy to run your defense. I didnt hate any of the previous Coordinators, but Slowik is to corny to lead a defense worth anything.

                        Just read his numerous quotes, I hate this guy
                        dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                        I tried to warn ya.

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                        • #13
                          The fact is that we aren't getting turnovers. It's pathetic that our Defensive Tackle is tied for 1st place on the team in Interceptions...and we only have 4 Interceptions in the entire season!!


                          sigpic


                          FA Targets: DT Jason Jones, DT Pat Simms, S Reggie Smith, LB Dan Connor



                          :cool:

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                            if you read his comments again, he didn't say the ONLY time to get turnovers is when you have the lead. He said that you get MORE chances at turnovers when you have a lead.... and he's right.

                            When you get an early lead, teams throw the ball more. They are playing in catch up mode, and it allows your defense to pin their ears back, and the DBs to get more throws into the air.

                            Fumbles out of the backfield are MUCH more rare than fumbles from teh QB when getting sackes, WR fumbling the ball after a reception and hit, or an INT.

                            Not to mention, pass forcing the other team to be in passing mode gives up sacks, and a 3-n-out is basically a turnover. Sacks make it hard to get the first.

                            So slowik didn't say anything stupid.
                            He looks stupid for saying it. In 2 of the first three games this year Denver had 21-3 leads. Not once did we see the 'agressive side' of Slowik. In fact the games were nail biters.

                            Pressure, hits, knockdowns on QB's usually lead to turnovers. Most QB's in this league tend to get a bit erratic and have happy feet after contact. Manning is a prime example and he is one of the 2 best QB's in this league.

                            In the Saints game we were up 21-3 and the D let them back into it.

                            We finally rush a pretty good QB in Matt Ryan but not Jamarcus! Did you notice when we got a good pressure on Ryan Bly ended up with a pick? Do you think that was happenstance?

                            The guy just doesn't get it. While he may have said the right thing he doesn't practice what he preaches.

                            I can't wait to see us rush 4 all day again tomorrow

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                            • #15
                              Slowick has been, and always will be a poor defensive coordinator.

                              It happened in Green Bay, and it's happening here.

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