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Time to show some respect to Ben Hamilton

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  • Dean
    replied
    Yes, Hamilton has been overpowered on occasion but IMO you are over emphasizing how often that has occured. I realize that stats can sometimes be misleading but I don't think so in this case. Whether you are looking at the O-line as a whole or the left guard individually it looks very good to me.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol


    Offensive Lines 2008
    Pick Position Team Efficiency Team Offense Team Defense Quarterbacks Running Backs Wide Receivers Tight Ends Offensive Line Defensive Line Special Teams Drive Stats Pick Year
    Regular season totals, through Week 11
    Revised as of 11/18/2008
    Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:

    Losses: 120% value
    0-4 Yards: 100% value
    5-10 Yards: 50% value
    11+ Yards: 0% value
    These numbers are then adjusted based on down, distance, situation, and opponent, and normalized so that the league average for Adjusted Line Yards per carry is the same as the league average for RB yards per carry (current baseline: 4.08). These stats are explained further here. Opponent adjustments are currently at 80 percent strength because it is early in the season.

    The following stats are not adjusted for opponent:

    RB Yards: Yards per carry by that team's running backs, according to standard NFL numbers.
    10+ Yards: Percentage of a team's rushing yards more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage. Represents yardage not reflected in Adjusted Line Yards stat.
    Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.
    Stuffed: Percentage of runs that result in (on first down) zero or negative gain or (on second through fourth down) less than one-fourth the yards needed for another first down. Since being stuffed is bad, teams are ranked from stuffed least often (#1) to most often (#32).
    NFL averages for each stat given in red.

    Why are these rankings different from the team offense DVOA ratings for rushing? Among other reasons, they don't include quarterbacks or fumbles, long runs are truncated, and a different set of adjustments is used, attempting to isolate line play rather than total team offense.

    A team with a high ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a low ranking in 10+ Yards is heavily dependent on its offensive line to make the running game work. A team with a low ranking in Adjusted Line Yards but a high ranking in 10+ Yards is heavily dependent on its running back breaking long runs to make the running game work.

    However, it is important to understand that these ratings only somewhatseparate the offensive line from the running backs. A team with a very good running back will appear higher no matter how bad their line, and a team with a great line with appear lower if the running back is terrible.

    Stats in blue represent pass blocking. Teams are ranked according to adjusted sack rate, which gives sacks per pass attempt adjusted for opponent, down, and distance. Pass blocking stats are explained further here. Our sack totals may differ slightly from official NFL totals depending on the league's retroactive statistical adjustments.

    RUN BLOCKING PASS PROTECTION
    TEAM Adj. Line
    Yards RB
    Yards Power
    Success Power
    Rank 10+
    Yards 10+
    Rank Stuffed Stuffed
    Rank TEAM Sack
    Rank Sacks Adj.
    Sack Rate
    1 DEN 5.01 4.66 63% 21 13% 26 22% 9 IND 1 11 2.9%
    2 NYG 4.93 5.55 61% 23 27% 1 21% 4 TEN 2 6 3.0%
    3 NYJ 4.84 4.47 59% 25 16% 22 24% 18 NO 3 8 3.3%
    4 WAS 4.75 4.67 78% 5 17% 20 21% 3 DEN 4 8 3.5%
    5 SF 4.64 4.41 50% 32 18% 18 21% 5 ATL 5 12 3.7%
    6 NE 4.58 4.27 71% 12 13% 27 22% 8 CLE 6 13 3.9%
    7 MIN 4.49 4.63 65% 19 21% 11 23% 13 NYG 7 12 4.1%
    8 HOU 4.49 4.67 74% 8 23% 3 21% 7 PHI 8 15 4.1%
    9 BAL 4.48 3.87 79% 4 11% 29 20% 2 TB 9 11 4.4%
    10 DAL 4.44 4.67 79% 3 22% 8 23% 14 SD 10 14 4.7%
    11 NO 4.39 3.81 66% 18 9% 31 23% 12 CAR 11 13 5.0%
    12 ATL 4.29 4.60 76% 7 23% 4 28% 28 ARI 12 18 5.1%
    13 CLE 4.20 4.17 52% 30 19% 13 24% 16 CHI 13 18 5.5%
    14 BUF 4.20 3.90 53% 29 12% 28 26% 25 MIA 14 19 5.6%
    15 MIA 4.19 4.21 77% 6 19% 14 19% 1 DAL 15 17 5.6%
    16 CAR 4.19 4.60 81% 1 24% 2 25% 22 BAL 16 19 6.3%
    RUN BLOCKING PASS PROTECTION
    TEAM Adj. Line
    Yards RB
    Yards Power
    Success Power
    Rank 10+
    Yards 10+
    Rank Stuffed Stuffed
    Rank TEAM Sack
    Rank Sacks Adj.
    Sack Rate
    17 TB 4.18 4.26 61% 24 22% 10 23% 15 NYJ 17 19 6.5%
    18 JAC 4.17 4.00 70% 15 17% 19 25% 23 GB 18 21 6.6%
    19 GB 4.12 4.08 74% 9 18% 17 23% 11 HOU 19 24 6.7%
    20 CHI 4.11 3.76 67% 16 14% 25 24% 19 WAS 20 26 6.7%
    21 PHI 4.02 3.91 52% 31 19% 15 31% 32 SEA 21 22 6.8%
    22 KC 4.02 4.28 63% 20 22% 7 25% 21 BUF 22 25 7.2%
    23 TEN 4.02 4.18 67% 17 23% 6 24% 20 KC 23 28 7.6%
    24 PIT 4.00 3.79 61% 22 14% 24 30% 31 JAC 24 26 8.1%
    25 SD 3.92 3.84 72% 11 16% 21 24% 17 CIN 25 38 8.5%
    26 ARI 3.90 3.58 55% 27 15% 23 22% 10 STL 26 32 8.8%
    27 IND 3.89 3.59 72% 10 9% 32 25% 24 MIN 27 28 9.1%
    28 OAK 3.73 4.08 70% 14 19% 12 21% 6 NE 28 33 9.5%
    29 STL 3.70 3.97 58% 26 18% 16 29% 30 SF 29 36 10.0%
    30 SEA 3.70 4.10 71% 13 23% 5 26% 26 PIT 30 36 11.0%
    31 DET 3.45 3.89 81% 2 22% 9 28% 29 OAK 31 33 11.0%
    32 CIN 3.16 2.97 54% 28 10% 30 26% 27 DET 32 37 11.3%
    x NFL x 4.20 67% x 18% x 24% x NFL x 21 6.4%

    The second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. It's early in the season, so take these numbers with a grain of salt.

    LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END
    TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
    1 DEN 5.51 7 5.54 3 4.81 4 3.67 27 5.69 2
    2 NYG 6.01 2 5.38 6 4.86 1 4.50 10 3.80 21
    3 NYJ 5.32 10 3.57 23 4.84 2 4.72 4 5.71 1
    4 WAS 5.34 9 5.51 4 3.98 22 4.83 2 4.61 7
    5 SF 5.82 3 3.79 20 4.84 3 3.80 23 4.25 15
    6 NE 4.51 16 5.46 5 4.59 7 4.46 12 1.49 32
    7 MIN 4.45 18 5.67 2 4.31 13 3.72 26 5.24 4
    8 HOU 5.02 13 3.19 27 4.78 5 4.38 13 3.87 19
    9 BAL 5.45 8 4.51 11 4.52 9 3.81 22 4.80 5
    10 DAL 5.60 5 3.52 25 4.71 6 4.47 11 3.17 26
    11 NO 4.66 15 5.80 1 4.35 12 3.98 20 3.59 22
    12 ATL 3.97 21 5.33 7 3.91 24 4.54 8 4.33 13
    13 CLE 5.53 6 3.13 28 4.15 18 4.63 6 4.71 6
    14 BUF 6.15 1 4.11 16 3.87 27 4.30 15 4.35 12
    15 MIA 4.44 19 3.78 21 4.04 20 4.62 7 4.53 11
    16 CAR 4.19 20 3.70 22 4.42 11 4.28 16 3.19 25
    LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END
    TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
    17 TB 1.91 29 1.71 32 4.58 8 4.53 9 3.86 20
    18 JAC 3.87 22 4.84 8 3.88 26 4.64 5 5.53 3
    19 GB 5.19 12 4.32 13 4.22 15 3.23 32 3.42 24
    20 CHI 3.25 26 4.02 19 4.47 10 3.79 24 3.99 18
    21 PHI 3.65 23 2.80 31 4.27 14 4.72 3 4.11 17
    22 KC 4.94 14 4.08 18 3.95 23 3.48 30 4.25 14
    23 TEN 3.29 25 4.10 17 4.21 16 3.65 28 4.12 16
    24 PIT 5.65 4 4.77 9 3.91 25 3.36 31 3.53 23
    25 SD 2.67 28 2.98 30 4.17 17 4.35 14 4.59 9
    26 ARI 3.54 24 4.30 14 3.50 30 4.16 17 4.56 10
    27 IND 4.46 17 3.54 24 4.15 19 4.03 19 2.75 29
    28 OAK 5.21 11 4.73 10 3.57 29 3.51 29 1.67 31
    29 STL 1.31 31 3.06 29 4.01 21 4.95 1 3.17 27
    30 SEA 3.04 27 4.43 12 3.48 31 4.05 18 3.10 28
    31 DET 1.40 30 4.24 15 2.83 32 3.86 21 4.61 8
    32 CIN 0.46 32 3.23 26 3.63 28 3.73 25 1.99 30
    x NFL 4.39 x 4.32 x 4.23 x 4.13 x 3.97 x

    The third table lists how often each team runs in each direction. Numbers may not add up to 100% due to carries listed without direction.

    Team RB
    Carries LEFT
    END LEFT
    TACKLE MID/
    GUARD RIGHT
    TACKLE RIGHT
    END
    1 BAL 323 9% 20% 52% 14% 5%
    2 NYG 309 12% 17% 43% 18% 9%
    3 TEN 308 9% 13% 50% 15% 12%
    4 ATL 306 13% 18% 46% 8% 15%
    5 CAR 288 13% 9% 53% 13% 11%
    6 MIN 286 14% 12% 54% 11% 9%
    7 WAS 270 21% 18% 29% 14% 18%
    8 CHI 262 11% 14% 47% 15% 12%
    9 NE 260 9% 14% 63% 10% 4%
    10 MIA 258 12% 12% 52% 13% 12%
    11 OAK 258 12% 20% 40% 17% 11%
    12 TB 256 7% 5% 70% 11% 6%
    13 PIT 250 9% 8% 56% 17% 10%
    14 NYJ 247 7% 8% 58% 16% 10%
    15 SEA 242 11% 24% 43% 14% 7%
    16 BUF 241 9% 20% 53% 12% 7%
    Team RB
    Carries LEFT
    END LEFT
    TACKLE MID/
    GUARD RIGHT
    TACKLE RIGHT
    END
    17 DAL 240 14% 12% 43% 18% 13%
    18 GB 234 20% 19% 26% 16% 18%
    19 JAC 232 13% 7% 61% 12% 8%
    20 NO 231 12% 11% 46% 18% 13%
    21 SD 231 9% 14% 58% 10% 9%
    22 ARI 226 8% 23% 43% 15% 11%
    23 CLE 224 8% 15% 60% 10% 7%
    24 HOU 223 11% 11% 52% 17% 9%
    25 KC 215 11% 13% 53% 13% 9%
    26 STL 213 9% 14% 53% 15% 9%
    27 IND 211 14% 16% 46% 10% 14%
    28 SF 208 9% 8% 59% 12% 13%
    29 DEN 206 16% 17% 51% 9% 8%
    30 CIN 203 9% 13% 49% 20% 9%
    31 PHI 200 17% 13% 43% 14% 15%
    32 DET 188 11% 23% 32% 21% 13%
    x NFL x 11% 14% 50% 14% 10%
    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS
    The tables didn't copy off very well but the link will more clearly indicate the point that I was making.
    Last edited by Dean; 11-30-2008, 05:17 AM.

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  • stnzed
    replied
    I don't need stats to tell me that Hamilton is weak, I've got Garrard Warren trucking him into the QB as proof. This is just one recent example that comes to mind, and I don't think it's necessary to mention each time he's been beaten, all you have to do is watch closely.......I doubt this will the last time he gets his ass handed to him, this is just who he is.

    He's weak.......

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    I don't see how we can complain about anyone on the OL. Last year, we had problems getting the short yardage and scoring on the goalline. This year, we immediately showed that wasn't a problem when Pittman continued to score from inside the five.

    How many sacks have we given up all season thus far, 7? Doesn't seem that Hamilton is having his ass handed to him by anyone.... and considering Jenkins is having such a great season, I'm going to assume he's had GOOD games against other "LG" that aren't considered to be such "weak links."

    I'll say the same thing about Weigman. No reason to believe for a moment that either one of them is weak. Not when they have proved to have the success t hey have this season. The run game was doing pretty well considering the lack of talent at the RB position BEFORE we had every RB on the roster go down with injury.

    So no. I don't by this suggestion that Hamilton= weak link. Also, when looking over the article, I didn't see where it was written by anyone on the Broncos staff.

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  • stnzed
    replied
    Originally posted by B4Bronco6 View Post
    It's true, he probably is the weak link of the line.

    But he's a typical Shanny type of linemen. Small, quick on his feet, and smart.

    He uses his mechanics very well, especially in the run blocking game.

    I'd rather have him than Montrae "Throw me another burger" Holland.
    Hamilton should have been at Center from the beginning, and he would have on any other team, if Denver could find a RG that could improve the run blocking to the right, they could move Kuper to LG and move Hamilton to C where he belongs.

    Hamilton would be an improvement over Wiegmann at C, imo, it would improve depth at the same time.......that is until the GM trades that depth.......

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  • Colorado69
    replied
    Next Center?

    I thought that Hamilton did a good job a few years ago when he replaced Nalen after an injury. With his knowledge, experience, and size he is a natural for the system. I can see Lichtensteiger or Polumbus moving into a guard position to allow Hamilton to move to Center when needed.

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  • CanDB
    replied
    You need 5 guys to make the oline work, and I'm happy that Hamilton has not only manage to play, but play at a good, solid level. I'm a fan!

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  • Peerless
    replied
    Originally posted by stnzed View Post
    As good as the on-line has been all season long, it's hard to complain about either one of them.......but I will anyway.

    Hamilton is still the weak link of the OL and is going to get his ass handed to him by Jenkins if Wiegmann doesn't help the majority of the time.......chances are they will both get their ass handed to them by Jenkins, he is the type of player that gives the Broncos pumped up FB's like Hamilton/Wiegmann a hard time.

    It's clear to see the Broncos respect him a lot, but this is just more hype and propaganda from the Broncos, imo.......Hamilton is weak.......
    It's true, he probably is the weak link of the line.

    But he's a typical Shanny type of linemen. Small, quick on his feet, and smart.

    He uses his mechanics very well, especially in the run blocking game.

    I'd rather have him than Montrae "Throw me another burger" Holland.

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  • 35istheFuture
    replied
    Ben Hamilton went to high school very close to me
    Marion Barber went there too

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  • stnzed
    replied
    As good as the on-line has been all season long, it's hard to complain about either one of them.......but I will anyway.

    Hamilton is still the weak link of the OL and is going to get his ass handed to him by Jenkins if Wiegmann doesn't help the majority of the time.......chances are they will both get their ass handed to them by Jenkins, he is the type of player that gives the Broncos pumped up FB's like Hamilton/Wiegmann a hard time.

    It's clear to see the Broncos respect him a lot, but this is just more hype and propaganda from the Broncos, imo.......Hamilton is weak.......

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  • cutler4thewin
    replied
    thats true, i think they did pretty well against rodgers tho, so hopefully we can move jenkins around a bit too

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  • getlynched47
    replied
    now only if they could get the running game going

    Weigmann and Hamilton are going to have their hands full tomorrow with Kris Jenkins

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  • cutler4thewin
    replied
    i think we have the best tackle PAIR in the league, and will for 10 years or so barring injury

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  • Peerless
    replied
    Originally posted by cutler4thewin View Post
    he is the man, him and casey i think are the glue to this o line right now because of the youth... and he must be good, he is our highest rated lineman in madden!!! (that was sarcasm )
    Well I don't know if they are the "glue".

    Clady and Harris are playing like 5 year vets... BOTH are playing at a pro bowl level. And Kuper is just going right along with the rest of them. Playing at a high level, and hardly making any stupid mistakes.


    The entire line from left to right has been amazing this season. They are the team MVP.

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  • cutler4thewin
    replied
    he is the man, him and casey i think are the glue to this o line right now because of the youth... and he must be good, he is our highest rated lineman in madden!!! (that was sarcasm )

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  • marcus_miller
    replied
    :salute!: If I could do it in person I would, with out saying a word our asking for anything, for he has given me enough! :salute!:

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