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  • #46
    Originally posted by CodyRoark View Post
    I'm a go and no go for this decision... He can hit hard and pass rush, but can he cover? That's the question...

    4 LB's in the 3-4:
    Woodyard,Williams,Moss, Larsen?
    I think if any of our tweener players (Crowder/Moss/Doom) Moss has the most potential because he actually is very laterally agile, which bodes well for his ability to drop back into coverage and maintain the flats. I think Moss will turn out to be a very effective outside rusher in his length will prove to come to his advantage by batting down balls, and making up ground off the corner on QB's. There's no doubt he's an athletic guy, and I think he will transition very well to OLB.

    Based on our LB's right now I would have to say our starting LB corps would look similar to this:

    LOLB: Boss Bailey (Solid speed, blitzer, and coverage LB)
    LILB: Larsen (Thumper, run-stopper LB, 2-down LB only?)
    RILB: DJ Williams (Solid, all-around player, tackling machine)
    ROLB: Moss (Athletic, Speed rusher, coverage ability?)
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    • #47
      It's useful to look at this quote because it explains a lot.

      The question is WHY has Moss failed after being a highly sought after 1st round prospect that a lot of teams were interested in. If the Broncos hadn't traded up to #17 to take him, some other team would have drafted him somewhere in the top 25 players.

      And we can see a big part of the answer. He's simply been unable to add weight and strength enough to play every down as a 4-3 DE in the NFL. Teams can run right over him. He has speed, but Denver had NO inside pass-rush so QBs could step up if he came around the end. And he wasn't strong enough to break through blockers.

      In short he was ineffective.

      They feel like it could be good for Jarvis, because he hasn't put on the weight you would expect a defensive end to have. And he's athletic enough to do it," Moss' agent, Pat Dye Jr., said on Friday. "My sense is, he'll be an outside linebacker and a big pass rusher, primarily."

      Moss has vowed to add 10 pounds this offseason while working with a nutritionist and strength coaches in Gainesville, Fla. But he has had difficulty moving north of the 255 pounds he carried at season's end.

      "He's plenty athletic. My hope was, at this point, he'd weigh 265, 270 and be a prototypical defensive end, but that hasn't happened. So this could kind of be a rebirth for him."
      Now, instead of trying to add 10-15 lbs. and become the proto-typical 4-3 DE, he can work on his agility and coverage skills.

      He's probably naturally somewhere around 245-250 lbs. and that's LB territory, not DE.

      The real problem is that it may take him 2 or 3 more years to make the adjustment to OLB:
      Steelers director of football operations Kevin Colbert, whose team has played a 3-4 defense since former coach Bill Cowher was hired in 1992, said that, along with finding a nose tackle to anchor the center of the line, the two outside linebacker spots can be difficult to fill.

      That's because players who were once undersized defensive ends, playing along the line of scrimmage at 260 pounds or so, now are being asked to drop into coverage as well as rush the passer. For the Broncos, that would mean players such as Elvis Dumervil or Jarvis Moss, who have played almost exclusively along the line of scrimmage, suddenly would find their things-to-do list has become much larger.

      "The 265-, 270-pound end will have the most difficulty," Colbert said. "The interior defensive lineman can usually make the change because their techniques usually don't change, if they have the size. . . . When we look at a 260- or 255-pound guy, (we ask) can they make the transition to do the things they need to do, from a coverage standpoint? That's always our challenge.

      "It limits your pool to a certain extent, and it also reminds you you're going to have to have a lot of patience with these guys as they develop. Everyone who has been in our system as outside linebackers, it usually took them a minimum of two years - and usually three to four years - before they were ready to contribute."

      McDaniels said the Broncos were prepared to have that kind of patience when looking to play the 3-4.
      So, converting a DE into a 3-4 OLB is more than just moving him to a new position. It takes years for them to learn that position.

      And the Steelers ought to know, they've been the most successful defensive team in the NFL for years now (them and the Ravens).
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      • #48
        I love how everyone is pimping Moss cause of his measureables.
        Say whatever you want, Dumerville by far had the freakier production in college and his production in the NFL has been excellent. While he had a down year he still produced. He is a leader on this team, has a motor, and first and most importantly ELVIS DUMERVILLE IS A PLAYMAKER. If you fill your defense up with playmakers at every position it will be nasty no matter what.

        Just cause elvis doesnt look as sexy as jarvis when their doing their fancy little hip drills and whatever else it is thatts compleatly insignifgant to actual game production, doesnt mean Jarvis will neccesarily be the better olb for us.

        Dont sell Elvis short on not only being an every down OLB, but a nasty one, with scary pass rushing skills, hard hitting and non stop motor.



        Just wanted to add Dumervils draft profile seeing since it is that time of year...

        http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/...er%3fid%3d9442


        Dumervil played sparingly as a true freshman reserve in 2002. He saw action in all 13 games as a sophomore in 2003, finishing with 28 total tackles, six for loss and two sacks. He took over as a fulltime starting RDE as a junior in 2004, when he finished with 52 tackles, 11.5 TFL and 10 sacks. Dumervil led the nation with 20 sacks and 11 forced fumbles as senior in 2005, while also contributing with 65 total tackles, including 23 for loss with four broken up passes and one interception. Dumervil's draft stock has been volatile this year. It maxed out at the end of the 2005 season, when he finished with nation high's in sacks (20) and forced fumbles (11). It has been all downhill since, though, as Dumervil's poor Senior Bowl showing and unimpressive ratio of size-to-speed at the combine have put him in danger of slipping ... For complete overview, strengths and weaknesses, login above or become an Insider.

        The chargers pretty much just blitz Merriman on every play any way, why cant Elvis do that?
        Last edited by Exxon; 02-21-2009, 06:03 PM.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Exxon View Post
          I love how everyone is pimping Moss cause of his measureables.
          Say whatever you want, Dumerville by far had the freakier production in college and his production in the NFL has been excellent. While he had a down year he still produced. He is a leader on this team, has a motor, and first and most importantly ELVIS DUMERVILLE IS A PLAYMAKER. If you fill your defense up with playmakers at every position it will be nasty no matter what.

          Just cause elvis doesnt look as sexy as jarvis when their doing their fancy little hip drills and whatever else it is thatts compleatly insignifgant to actual game production, doesnt mean Jarvis will neccesarily be the better olb for us.

          Dont sell Elvis short on not only being an every down OLB, but a nasty one, with scary pass rushing skills, hard hitting and non stop motor.

          The chargers pretty much just blitz Merriman on every play any way, why cant Elvis do that?
          What most do not seem to grasp is that Elvis' greatest asset is how he uses he hands up close. His pinky injury last year was almost debilitating and he had a huge drop off in production. Put him in space and you take away his quick hands, basically making him a marginal player.

          On top of that you are asking him to somehow become better in coverage, and based on the LB drills he did before he was drafted, he does not project to be very good at it.

          Square peg, round hole. Never say never, but the odds are not good that he makes an impact as an OLB.

          R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
          J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
          R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

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          • #50
            Originally posted by CodyRoark View Post
            I'm a go and no go for this decision... He can hit hard and pass rush, but can he cover? That's the question...

            4 LB's in the 3-4:
            Woodyard,Williams,Moss, Larsen?
            do you understand how the 3-4 works at all
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            • #51
              Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
              What most do not seem to grasp is that Elvis' greatest asset is how he uses he hands up close. His pinky injury last year was almost debilitating and he had a huge drop off in production. Put him in space and you take away his quick hands, basically making him a marginal player.

              On top of that you are asking him to somehow become better in coverage, and based on the LB drills he did before he was drafted, he does not project to be very good at it.

              Square peg, round hole. Never say never, but the odds are not good that he makes an impact as an OLB.
              True, but his coverage skills can always improve. I think he should transition well in one on one situations and he truly is one of our few playmakers we have on defense.

              He's obviously too small to be a defensive tackle in a 3-4 and I don't want to lose his abilities on our team. I'd rather see him at OLB than have to be forced to trade him.

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              • #52
                I love this move.

                I would like to see him play more. Almost an every down type player. He will improve on coverage with his speed the more chances he gets.
                :usa: *** God Bless Our Military Men And Women*** :usa:

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by IPICKEDYOUOFF View Post
                  http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clu...FL&majteam=DEN

                  Nice to hear, what do you guys think??
                  I'm all for it! Might as well try and salvage something out of him!
                  Haze gray and underway!

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                  • #54
                    He's gone by this time next year.
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                    TZ

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Botan View Post
                      I don't really think he does. lol.
                      96 CROWDER Tim 6- 3.7 271 4.69 457.17
                      94 MOSS Jarvis 6- 6.5 250 4.69 459.25
                      92 DUMERVIL Elvis 5-11.3 257 4.75 553.66

                      95 PHILLIPS Shaun 6- 3.1 255 4.74 585.48
                      94 WARE Demarcus . 6- 4.0 259 4.62 790.89
                      51 FARRIOR James 6- 1.0 240 4.74 675.76
                      56 MERRIMAN Shawne 6- 2.4 274 4.64 668.78

                      Compared to 3-4 OLB
                      Last edited by MarvinWillis; 02-22-2009, 12:50 PM.

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                      • #56
                        No surprise here, I'm going to predict his next move will be moving to a new team (if he's lucky)..

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Snarfalicious View Post
                          Based on our LB's right now I would have to say our starting LB corps would look similar to this:

                          LOLB: Boss Bailey (Solid speed, blitzer, and coverage LB)
                          LILB: Larsen (Thumper, run-stopper LB, 2-down LB only?)
                          RILB: DJ Williams (Solid, all-around player, tackling machine)
                          ROLB: Moss (Athletic, Speed rusher, coverage ability?)
                          Agreed, and I have no problem with that corps. Each is ideal to his position and I see no reason to draft an LB early in April. There are plenty of good back-ups/future starters after the 3rd round.

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