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McD / Cutler mess (Merged)

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  • Originally posted by jvw View Post
    I wouldn't quit agree with that statement. Not answering the owners phone calls or bringing his agent to "one on one" meeting with Josh isn't exactly acting in a mature manner. He has no doubt a good reason to be upset but he needs to put it behind him after the organization said they weren't going to trade him. He is not the first QB in the history of the NFL to be on the trading block, get over it and act like a team captain, like he is supposed to be.
    How about McDaniels not answering calls from Jay or his agent the day of the trade attempt?

    How about McDaniels lying to the media when it blew up in his face? How about the fact that he not only lied about it, but then tried to make JAY out to be the one that was over-reacting because he was just "answering calls." (only to later admit that he was 'late for the trade').

    How about using the 'conference call' that was meant to mend fences to point out that no player is untradable and he expects players to show up for volunteer workouts??

    How is it "only business"... when the coach is doing what "every coach does" and tries to trade Jay... but Jay isn't standing up and "being a captain" when he's asking to be traded??? The immaturity is not seeing the hypocrisy in that.

    Its time to see that the situation now is not about trying to be traded, but what unfolded after that. ITs about feeling completely unwanted. Its about Jay being up-front and honest to a fault, and seeing the team he was most loyal too literally stab him in the back and then lie about it to everyone... LITERALLY trying to make HIM out to be the bad guy.


    • Originally posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
      No matter what your personal feelings of Cutler or McDaniels are at this point, simply benching Cutler will NOT improve the team. Cutler won't learn some magical lesson and be humbled and come back willing to play. No matter what you think of him personally, he's a grown man and a wanted commodity in todays NFL by both the Broncos and many other NFL teams. He knows this and the Broncos know this.

      Cutler holds all the cards right now. If he was some poor character malcontent who nobody wanted benching him might work, but Cutler isn't. IF we bench him, all we do is hurt the franchise in the long haul. We'd eventually have to trade him, anyway. There really are only two options:

      1) Work it out with him and give him a reason to stay and be the franchise QB. I really don't think he wants to leave. He feels slighted and is upset that McDaniels hasn't made the gesture to to show trust and confidence in him.

      2) Trade him for picks and players that could help the team and move on. We get NOTHING if he's sitting on the bench collecting a paycheck. Trying to "teach him a lesson" isn't going to do the team any good at all. First, whoever is starting at QB (be it Simms or whoever) will be constantly looking over his shoulder in case Cutler decides to change his mind and play. That distraction is NOT what we need. Second, his trade value is through the roof right now. We have the opportunity to really make some moves for draft picks or very good players if we strike while the iron is hot.

      If we let him sit for a year and he doesn't come back and then we trade him, we're looking at a stocked QB draft class to compete with (McCoy, Bradford, Tebow, etc) and his value will be less NTM, he's got a whole year of not playing to make up for that other teams will use to lower his value.

      The "let him sit" arguement only works if the guy is a mediocre player or someone that we can do without with minimal team impact. In this scenario, it's like the Pats or Colts benching Brady or Manning.

      I'm a Cutler fan, but I'm really a BRONCOS fan. If it doesn't help my team to win games, it's just not a good idea in my book.
      You my friend, have hit a home run.
      Team Tebow #515


      • To me if The Broncos trade Jay it makes the most sense to trade him to Detroit.Get their 20 th pick plus their 1st next year.Which could be used on Bradford or another QB plus get other picks for compensation.Not ot mention it would be a NFC team.


        • I really hope you are correct on this, its good to still have hope.

          Originally posted by UnderArmour View Post
          0% chance Cutler is traded. This organization will absolutely not trade Cutler away and have him go on and become a HOFer.


          • Originally posted by I Hate SD Alot View Post
            This is my stance on it...
            The game is over and the Broncos have won.
            Wow...if this is winning, Id hate to see what losing looks like.


            • Originally posted by TXBRONC View Post
              I don't think the Patriots have Randy Moss run just short to intermediate routes in fact I would bet he runs mostly deep routes.
              They did last year with Cassell.Cassell completed only 8 passes over 20yrds last year.


              • Leaving the Cutler situation out the one signing I dont get is Lamont freaking Jordan.Are you kidding me.Where is Hillis going to get playing time?


                • McDaniels system doesn't solely rely on short passes. Tom Brady in 2007 averaged 12 yards per completion.

                  Cutler is absolutely capable of that, in fact last year he only averaged 11 yards per completion.

                  This myth of McDaniels running a short routes all time is not true. You don't score as many points as the Pats did in 2007 without slinging the ball all over the place.

                  Honestly, I think it should be obvious to everyone that McDaniels had a chance to bring a QB who knew his system very well, and was also going to get multiple picks was incentive enoguh for him to lose Cutler. I don't think he has the luxury anymore. Thus I think Cutler will stay and get a fat contract.


                  • Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
                    I kinda-sorta argee with you about the benching part. Except for one thing.

                    You are comparing benching WR's to benching star QB's. Apples and oranges here. The QB handles the ball every single play and 10 guys are keying on what he does, while 11 guys are all trying to stop one guy...the QB. The WR position simply doesn't have that sort of impact.

                    Apples and oranges.

                    You can't bench star QB's to "prove a point" or "teach them a lesson", today's NFL they are worth about 10% of the market value of your entire franchise. You bench them if they aren't playing with fire or throwing for 4500 yards and a dozens of TD's.

                    You DO NOT bench them because they made the Pro Bowl at only 25 years old and Matt Cassel didn't.

                    Football is a team game....except for the QB.

                    Baseball is a team game.....except for the pitcher.

                    You see?

                    And before you say that MLB pitchers are benched all the time, do not forget that there is no comparable bullpen in the NFL. The drop off in talent between a Jay Cutler and a Chris Simms is so large as to be absurd to even consider doing it out of anything other than necessity.

                    This bizzare passion some Denver fans have to "teach Cutler a lesson", or "Let's try to ruin his career, that'll show him", is really getting old. Not to mention rather....disturbing. The only place I've ever run into that sort of thinking was in Oakland. How are we ever going to get a star QB when half the fans only want to root for running people out of town.

                    That's not football....that's just mean.
                    I will agree that its apples and an exent. Yes, most folks want to punish Cutler for his actions, either by benching him or trading him. I don't believe that is the action that needs to be taking.

                    Willfully benching your starting QB to prove a point is...pointless.

                    However, a QB deciding he will try and sit out (which Culter has NOT indicated) to garner a bigger contract is also...pointless.

                    Cutler is under contract. I was pointing out the ONLY way Cutler would be benched is IF HE refused to play. If he didnt show up for camps, mandatory workouts, etc., and tried to pull what both Boldin and Johnson tried last year...

                    The same results will happen. He will play.

                    Judging by the actions Cutler has taken (mainly going to the media with this, making immature comments and wondering outloud "how can I trust this guy?"), the company he is keeping, mainly his agent Bud Cook, and his sense of entitlement wouldnt surpise me if this happened.

                    This kind of situation is very rare, and I dont ever recall something like this happening in sports. I was just trying to come up with the closest approximation to what happened with similar STAR players on teams.

                    QB's are the leaders of teams. They lead by words or by example. Cutler has a lot to learn.

                    However, he is a great upcoming talent, and no doubt has helped propel the Broncos to medicority last year, when it could have been much worse. I would love to have Cutler continue to be a Bronco.

                    But I'm not keeping my hopes up. If the weekend ends with the Owners meetings, and no trades have happened, I will breathe easier.
                    Adopted by: Peanut

                    "You find ways to win and certainly you can find ways to's not just dumb luck."
                    -Sean Payton


                    • Pat obviously is on side with McDuplicated, all he say is he's Disappointed of how Jay is handling the situation but doesn't say anything about how this young coach try to trade Jay and lied to him and later got caught.
                      Last edited by bfan45; 03-22-2009, 09:52 AM.


                      • Originally posted by Lorcust View Post
                        Asides, Tony Scheffler, you know the other guy McDaniels wanted to trade and as a result is skipping offseason workouts...

                        Besides, the other players didn't get lied to. Coaches that lie get exposed for the frauds they are and end up fired one way or another (Jon Gruden).
                        How many times do I have to communicate this? McDaniels never lied to Cutler about the trade discussions. He and the Broncos admitted from the get-go that they had some discussions and offers, but nothing came of it. That's not a lie. Quit being a sheep.


                        • I don't think he didn't want him at the beginning. He just stopped the love for him the second Cassell became available. McD immediately thought about an easier way to start his rookie year as HC by getting QB he already knew.

                          And like i've said before, in my opinion he did all this for himself and his reputation more than for the team. The team does NOT need another QB. Everyone knows that. But the coach?...that's another story.


                          • Originally posted by Shadow7ax View Post
                            I don't think he didn't want him at the beginning. He just stopped the love for him the second Cassell became available. McD immediately thought about an easier way to start his rookie year as HC by getting QB he already knew.

                            And like i've said before, in my opinion he did all this for himself and his reputation more than for the team. The team does NOT need another QB. Everyone knows that. But the coach?...that's another story.
                            Yeah i agree seems like all he wanted is his "own" players that he knew. He wanted to trade Cutler and never let him know or anything then when it didn't work out he still lied to Jay and later was caught then he told Jay that this can be done again. Stupid ****McDuplicated.


                            • Originally posted by Cut Jay View Post
                              It's good we can all agree that Cutler IS immature and aloof, but the question is, can great skills by such a QB sustain a team until said QB grows up?....I say no. Damage has been done here on this team, and you can point a finger at McD, but the inmates cannot run the asylum. IMO, unless Cutler miracuously grows up in the next week or two, we trade him. He could be of great value to a team that will coddle him, and we of course would have to receive great value in return.
                              I agree Cutler has demonstrated immaturity and aloofness during his short career.

                              But so did Elway, Favre, both Mannings, Rivers, and many other prominent quarterbacks.

                              You don't give up on a quarterback with Cutler's potential just because he rubs you the wrong way or because he doesn't handle himself well with the media. It's just idiotic.


                              • Cant Trade Jay....

                                We cant trade him, its a simple as that. He is too valuable, and he has the potential to be one the greats. If this defense can be fixed I truly believe he can take us to the super bowl. I dont believe any trade offered to us could match his value and what he brings to the team. Letting him go would only set us back further. Our offense was second in the league last year, thats and accomplishment for a 3rd year QB. Mr. Pat Bowlen says he has total control over this organization. Let me see it, Mr. Pat Bowlen, step in and right this situation. You told Jay he was going to be the man here for the next ten or fifteen years, and you allow an unproven coach to dangle his name in trade talks?
                                Jay is the man to lead us back to glory, and if anyone who bleeds orange and blue like cant see that, they are nuts!!