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  • Originally posted by Bradshaw3001 View Post
    I'm talking about this decade, not the 70's. Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Rex Grossman, Kerry Collins, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady (6th round pick), Jake Delhomme, Matt Haselback, Rich Gannon... all these guys have taken their teams to the Super Bowl, and all of them were either low draft picks or scrap heap pickups.

    The list of "franchise" QBs who have gone to a Super Bowl in the last 10 years, who would've cost their team an arm and a leg to get (teams in our position): Eli, Peyton, McNabb, Roethlisberger, McNair.

    The point is two-pronged. First, you don't need an elite QB to get to a Super Bowl or achieve long term success (e.g. Carolina/Delhomme, Oakland/Gannon, Seattle/Hasselback). Second, and perhaps more important, finding a franchise QB is not as difficult as you think. If anything, it's more luck than smarts.

    The new regime does not believe Jay was a franchise QB, or at least not the right QB for their system. You know what? They know more than us, so we should at least respect their opinions about the matter. Jay has proven to be extremely talented and certainly is PHYSICALLY capable of being a franchise QB... but he has yet to earn that status because mentally he has not developed the way he needs to, in order to reach that top plateau.

    So, while this may appear to be a setback, McD and X have the right to gut this team and turn it into whatever they think will be a winner. Rebuilding doesn't take that long in the NFL, and it happens to every team more frequently that one might think. Let these guys rebuild and we'll be winning before you know it... not only that, but we'll have a quality QB who wins games as well.
    The thing that you seem to be overlooking is that the teams that WIN Super Bowls have elite QBs ... not scrubs/system guys. Look at your own list and you can see that.

    Look over the past 20 +/- years and you'll see that the winning SB teams - almost without fail - had elite QBs. The 2 exceptions have been Tampa Bay and Baltimore ... and the Broncos won't have a defense like either of those teams anytime soon. In fact, the NE model isn't about dominate defense - it's just good/solid defense ... the type that a 16-0 team misses the playoffs with the following year when the elite QB is hurt.

    So ... if you want a guy that can win some games, maybe even get your hopes up and get to a SB, then a scrap heap guy as you call them may be fine. If you want to WIN a SB ... your best bet is an elite QB. History proves it out.

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    • Originally posted by TheTruth420 View Post
      I remeber not making the playoffs the last 3 seasons

      I remember a punk qb that couldn't even return a phone call to his boss that has paid him millions to play football

      I remember how to root for a team not a player

      I remember how your post is full of more crap than a porta potty at a chilli eating contest
      amen brother

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      • Motley,

        And I have lived in Denver off and on for ten years. I know fans like you exist. Show up at Mile High and wear the colors. But when it's time to cheer, your not always there.

        I was at the last game in Mile High against the 49ers. It barely sold out. Sad to say in Denver we sometimes barely sold out... But everyone is proving exactly one of my points. We aren't all as true as what we say.

        Regardless of McDaniels, Jay, and Pat. I am a Denver Broncos fan. I dislike Cutler. I always have. But guess what I still loved the Broncos and cheered for him when he was my QB. I am a true fan.

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        • If the Broncos could actually afford to PAY a #1 pick, I would say work with Detroit, but they can't so the ONLY real, worthwile option left is to broker some kind of deal with Cleveland. What that looks like is debatable but we certainly need their 1st round pick. Quinn has potential... but is sort of a question mark as to how he would be in Denver.

          The question is -what does Cleveland want? I can't recall if they had approached the Broncos or not. If they aren't as desperate as the other teams, and we have to approach them, they may play hardball with us in a trade.

          Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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          • The board has gotten so crazy over the last cpl months that I have just sat it out....

            But now I will chime in, for what its worth, as a guy that has followed this team for a very long time.

            This too shall pass

            #1. The drastic make-over (Shanny) was required because this organization had gone stale and was not showing any forward progress - in fact it was in a nose-dive to below mediocre (sp?)

            #2. Culters on-field demeanor has always been bad - admit it - he simply has not looked hungry...energized - glad to be here. His on and off field leadership has ben C+ level, tops.

            #3. He made it clear he wanted to be elsewhere - personally I think this may have been the case before the 'trade issue' came up - in fact, I think Cutler wanted more money, or more say, or felt he was inhibited, or hoped to play elsewhere coming out of college....or all of the above, and this gave him an 'out' to make a stink about - his agent is also very suspect, given his track record.

            #4. Cutler is good - MAY have the potential to be great - but he has some maturing to do before he gets there - his spoiled kid mentality must go, and he must learn to lead an organization. He may be great where-ever he ends up - time will tell.... Sadly, this won't happen here - but as it is clear he wants to go I say let him go - do you want a talented QB that has no desire to be here causing TO syndrome in the organization...?

            Personally - I do not.

            I would much rather have a hungry QB that wants to be here, even if he's not top 3//5/10 material...

            Jay - I wish you luck - both as a QB and as a 'man' that seems under appreciative of the rare and wonderful opportunities that you have - TO is a great athlete as well, but he's a cancer to the teams he plays for - can't help but wonder if you, Jay, will continue your ways or 'get well' after you move on. Honestly Jay, short of putting up some decent numbers and wining some games, what POSITIVE IMPACT did you have here?

            Thus, I say.....good ridance Jay.


            and I reiterate...this too shall pass....
            Last edited by MoXplant; 04-01-2009, 01:07 PM.

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            • I am too excited for this season. Just thinking all the possiblilities of who we can get for cutler. I meanly want to see denver improve this D .As long as we dont have a *****ty Defense again. I rather an a great Defense and a okay offense. So i say we trade Jay Cutler to San Fran to Patrick Willis. Bring back the attitude we have been lacking since Al wilson left.

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              • Originally posted by Gsam View Post
                I could not disagree with you more.

                I will concede however that you are correct that a head coach does not need to notify a player that he is on the block.

                To your 2nd point about cutler demanding a trade after shanny was fired. I dont think he did. I think he was upset and put it past him and decided to give the new regime a chance. Then his QB coach was fired, then he was almost dealt for a 1 hit wonder.

                Who does Jay cutler think he is? I think he knows he's the best young talent in football right now. QB's have to be cocky, but you have him dead wrong as being a spoiled brat. Jay chose to play at Vanderbilt which SUCKed as a football school prior to cutler getting there. He could have gone to a big football school and made life easy on himself. He displayed his mental toughness in his choices on where to play ball.

                To suggest that jays INTs had something to do with shanny being let go is crazy. To blame anyone but the defense for last years collapse is ignorant. 3rd worst defense in NFL history. End of story. Jay was the only reason we were a competitor last year.
                Cutler went to Vanderbilt because they were the only school from the major conferences that recruited him as a quarterback. The others that were looking at him wanted him to play safety. If he could have gone to any other school in a major conference with a shot at being the starting quarterback, he would have.

                You are correct in believing that Cutler didn't demand a trade after Shanahan was fired. I believe both Cutler and the Broncos have already confirmed that no trade request was made after Shanahan was fired.

                Quarterbacks don't have to be cocky. They have to be confident. Cutler does seem to have the required confidence, but perhaps not the necessary temperament. If he can't handle being the subject of trade talks when a new coach comes in, then he quite possibly doesn't have what it takes to succeed in the NFL.
                My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                You Mad Bro?

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                • Originally posted by neutessa View Post
                  The thing that you seem to be overlooking is that the teams that WIN Super Bowls have elite QBs ... not scrubs/system guys. Look at your own list and you can see that.

                  Look over the past 20 +/- years and you'll see that the winning SB teams - almost without fail - had elite QBs. The 2 exceptions have been Tampa Bay and Baltimore ... and the Broncos won't have a defense like either of those teams anytime soon. In fact, the NE model isn't about dominate defense - it's just good/solid defense ... the type that a 16-0 team misses the playoffs with the following year when the elite QB is hurt.

                  So ... if you want a guy that can win some games, maybe even get your hopes up and get to a SB, then a scrap heap guy as you call them may be fine. If you want to WIN a SB ... your best bet is an elite QB. History proves it out.

                  All of those elite QB's that won SuperBowls all had elite defenses in way or another, or most certainly defenses that controlled the game.

                  If it is an "elite QB" argument, than we need to find one. Cutler is not anywhere near "elite" right now.

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                  • Originally posted by floridabroncos View Post
                    Hey Chargers fan, we know you like stirring the pot, but honestly, your opinion is really not needed in a Denver Broncos issue. Perhaps you should stick to The Smack Talk section. It's obvious that you are just trying to antagonize both sides in the debate against each other, as evidenced by many of your posts.
                    I don't know, JC seems to be one of the smartest football fans on this board regardless of which team he roots for. He also seems to be pretty level headed. Anything he is saying about this Cutler issue is pretty tempremental compared to some of the things that rabid anti-Cutler pro-McDaniels fans have been saying. Likewise some of the valid points you are bringing up are pretty even tempered as well.

                    There is a clear split on this board about the situation though. Either McDaniels is right, or Cutler is right. I think they're both wrong. But the only thing we can do is move forward. I would have liked Jay to stay, but it wasn't in the cards, but I am certainly not among the crowd that thinks this sets the Broncos back 5 years. It's not like the Broncos were in a great position anyway.

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                    • You can shoot me for this if you want and I know me saying it will make no difference, but forget ELWAY!!! Comparing a possible QB to him already? Get out of the house people, things have changed. I saw someone say wait till next year and take Tim Tebow, I would rather be castrated then have him play for us. What I like about Quinn is that he is a system QB scuplted from the same system we are playing. He doesnt have to be John, Jay, or Jesus to work in that.

                      He had accuracy from what I could see in the Denver game and some other games through out the season. I say we trade Cutler for Quinn and their 5th and call this a day. I would like to see this happen before the draft but I know that is not going to happen. The QB's in this years draft do not impress me at all, let Detroit sit on Stafford, they seem to be set on it already. He will probably do nothing because they wont be able to protect him or train him behind any type of veteran.

                      Is Carson Palmer the only decent starting QB to come from USC? Or am I completely lost? I have no faith in the transition from USC to NFL talent in QB's. I have a feeling stafford will slip out of the first round. Teams may not have probowl starting QB's but they have field managers that can probably hold over for one more year.

                      but that is just my two cents. :go:

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                      • Im converting it into the only orange Bubby Brister Broncos jersey on earth.
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                        • Originally posted by neutessa View Post
                          The thing that you seem to be overlooking is that the teams that WIN Super Bowls have elite QBs ... not scrubs/system guys. Look at your own list and you can see that.

                          Look over the past 20 +/- years and you'll see that the winning SB teams - almost without fail - had elite QBs. The 2 exceptions have been Tampa Bay and Baltimore ... and the Broncos won't have a defense like either of those teams anytime soon. In fact, the NE model isn't about dominate defense - it's just good/solid defense ... the type that a 16-0 team misses the playoffs with the following year when the elite QB is hurt.

                          So ... if you want a guy that can win some games, maybe even get your hopes up and get to a SB, then a scrap heap guy as you call them may be fine. If you want to WIN a SB ... your best bet is an elite QB. History proves it out.
                          Delhomme's team could've easily won a Super Bowl if their kicker hadn't kicked it out of bounds... he matched Brady throw for throw in that game.

                          There are other teams that have won Super Bowls without elite QBs, and other teams that have won with scrap heap guys. The '90 Giants? The '91 Redskins?

                          And yes, right now, I'd be happy if we could get to a Super Bowl... we haven't done that in 11 years.
                          Sent from my Human Cent-iPad

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                          • Originally posted by jhns View Post
                            Here is the best I can do right now. As I said, if it is still disputed in a couple hours, I will find the actual quotes when I get off work. I don't have time to go through everything right now. This at least gives what interview it was so people can look this up if they want.

                            http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...iels+interview

                            About 2/3 of the way through it says that McDaniels denied Jay ever asked for a trade. There are some articles floating around these boards that have the exact quotes, but I don't have to time to find them right now. From the article (Bill Williams' words):

                            "McDaniels said Cutler never asked him to be traded early in the offseason. It has been reported that Cutler did ask for a trade prior to Denver talking about acquiring Matt Cassel and trading Cutler. McDaniels maintained Denver never initiated trade talks. Cutler has said he knows for a fact that the Broncos did start talks."
                            What you just posted just backs up what I've already said, that Cutler never asked to be traded when Shanahan was fired and Bates left.
                            Fire Rick Dennison - This Signature will stay until the worst playcaller in the NFL is gone.

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                            • You all need to stop trying to point fingers at the the F.O saying something is going on here....jay requested a trade. Pat Bowlen agreed end of story. Now start worrying about who we might be getting in return and in the draft
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                              • Originally posted by Mount-n-Groan View Post
                                I know some have said that we might never know what really happened, but I think that someday, some reporter will be asking these guys (Cutler, Bowlen, & McD) the tough questions and they'll have to answer or risk their reputations. All of their reputations have suffered substantially already, but I wonder if they'll risk further damage. Inquiring minds want to know, and will continue to want to know; and any journalist worth their weight will feel/hear the fans' wishes and press each and every one of them on this issue some day.
                                I don't believe any "public" statements will be made until the ink dries.

                                They're not going to want to jeopardize any trade that is in the works or one that is upcoming.

                                Once it is all said and done, one of them is going to speak out and possibly start the mud slinging.

                                I'm hoping Pat is the one that comes clean with some honesty about what has been going on. An explanation. I think we the fans deserve that much.
                                :usa: *** God Bless Our Military Men And Women*** :usa:

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