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  • At this point, all of this is really "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda." The trade happened, Cutler is gone and now we move forward.

    Wouldnt it be more productive to talk about what needs to happen with Orton/Simms to have a solid offense next year?
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    • Damn, I miss Jay Cutler.

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      • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
        Damn, I miss Jay Cutler.
        Another Jay Cutler thread.
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        • Originally posted by Peerless View Post
          Damn, I miss Jay Cutler.

          There you go buddy!
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          Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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          • Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post



            There you go buddy!
            Red 98

            Kareem rises to the top

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            • Originally posted by it'sjustagame View Post
              no i dont agree with you about "the player comment" It is out of respect if you know a persons name you use it. If you are a head coach of a team and dont know the starting QB's name then go find it out. JMD has no pelts on the wall he hasnt earned the right to disrespect a player. How many SB's has he won as a head coach. I doubt you can find many people on this board who think "the player" was the corrrect tact in trying to diffuse a volatile situation. If JMD was actualy trying to fix the relationship with Cutler then his judgement to use the term "the player" repeatedly was very poor. Quit sticking up for a situation where 100% of rational thinking people know it was wrong. As for all the Other BS you thru in there it is pure speculation. Understand in the NFL you win SB's with a great Qb or a great defense. Cutler was a 3rd year pro with mad skills. I dont care what job your in as a leader you surround yourself with great talent. It baffles me this guy didnt even give Cutler a year to fail in his system. He judged him before he saw him practice one time let alone play a game. Everyone around here is saying let JMD have a chance before you judge him. Did JMD give that same chance to a 25 year old 3rd yr QB with mad skills. No he didnt. Both sides were knucleheads in the situatuin but JMD stuck an knife in its eye with his"the player" comments. so no i dont agree with ya
              At least he is an equal opportunity maligner, he referred to Cassel the same way in an interview.

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              • where the rumor started

                Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                Great post. I completely agree with everything. Great analogy involving the military. The problem is most won't understand.

                The thing that bugs me is the people who say it was McD's ego that got Cutler traded. McD's ego wasn't what got hurt when the trade talks happened. It was Cutler's ego. McD's ego didn't keep Cutler from talking to Mr. Bowlen. That, again, was Cutler's ego.

                I also love the point about the trade talks happening AFTER the evaluation of Cutler. Everything at this point is rumor. But the rumor that McD didn't think Cutler was very bright could play into things. Again, it's just a rumor. I don't know how smart Cutler is or isn't. The only reason it's brought up is because it could be a reason for the trade talks. Either way, I just don't feel McD was too enamored with Cutler for whatever reason.
                Cutler brought up the issue himself, although it was expected that he would have difficulty learning the completely new scheme, as anyone would.

                "I don't know if they think I can't run the system or I don't have the skills for it." - Jay Cutler
                Cutler was alluding to a real problem since learning the complicated new system presented a challenge for him, but the intelligence/familiarity with scheme issue appears to be part of his agent's strategy to 'bust him out' so it's not an objective issue so much as a crafted PR campaign strategy by Cutler and Cook.

                The joint appearance with Cook and Cutler was staged immediately after news of the attempt by Tampa Bay to entice Denver into trading Cutler. Cook uses the apparent threat of losing a popular player as bargaining tool, and he has used this technique previously in the Favre and McNair controversies.

                Cutler's desire to remain a Bronco was highly questionable at this point. Cutler was reported to have demanded a trade after Bates, the quarterback coach, left for a position at USC, so he was unhappy with the situation here before the trade talk controversy. Cook later admitted that the failure to retain Bates and Shanahan was a reason for Cutler's unhappiness.

                "Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."
                Cutler's claim that Bowlen had "assured" him that there would be no changes was challenged by Bowlen. Bates was considered for retention along with Dennison, Turner and the S & C coach, but appears to have left because he no longer would have the same responsibilities under McDaniel.

                The fact that Cutler was unhappy before the 'trade talk' controversy puts that controversy in a very different light. It should be noted that even though he claims to have been offended by trade talk his motivations point to his wanting a trade, and he later requested one, if not sooner, at the time that Bates left.

                Cutler may have accepted a re-worked contract from the Broncos in lieu of a trade, and indications are that he and Cook already expected that the Broncos would re-work his before its termination, which the Broncos have done with other contracts.

                Cook's MO is to create a media firestorm that forces teams to trade his clients, even though he publicly claims not to want this. His actions are at odds with his claims, however.

                Creating fear that a popular player will be traded is an easy way to create resentment among fans, as they tend to side heavily with the player. The Broncos were particularly vulnerable because of having a new Head Coach, who was an unknown commodity to virtually all Bronco fans. McDaniels' status as a blank slate allowed overzealous fans to engage in a considerable amount of character assassination, and Cutler's earlier statements regarding trade talk encouraged this. Bowlen acted to prevent this controversy from getting to the point where it undermined the team.
                There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them. - Louis Armstrong
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                • The answer to the question is simple. Denver had the rights to Culter... Denver traded those rights away. You can talk all you want about what lead up to the trade... at the end of the day it was Denver's front office that sent Jay Cutler out of Denver and to Chicago.

                  McDaniels is a rookie head coach and he definately made a few rookie mistakes this offseason. Jay Cutler is an emotional guy and he did a few things he probably isn't proud of because of that. As the ashes fall, the thing that is clearest is that the McDaniels is where the blame lies. Cutler was committed to him until he found out that it wasn't mutual. Cutler went out of his way to make things right and McDaniels messed that up. Cutler got mad and asked for a trade... McDaniels obliged almost immediately.

                  Players act like Cutler did all the time... very few people with control over the Personell act like McDaniels.
                  Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

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                  • Originally posted by colinski View Post
                    Cutler brought up the issue himself, although it was expected that he would have difficulty learning the completely new scheme, as anyone would.



                    Cutler was alluding to a real problem since learning the complicated new system presented a challenge for him, but the intelligence/familiarity with scheme issue appears to be part of his agent's strategy to 'bust him out' so it's not an objective issue so much as a crafted PR campaign strategy by Cutler and Cook.

                    The joint appearance with Cook and Cutler was staged immediately after news of the attempt by Tampa Bay to entice Denver into trading Cutler. Cook uses the apparent threat of losing a popular player as bargaining tool, and he has used this technique previously in the Favre and McNair controversies.

                    Cutler's desire to remain a Bronco was highly questionable at this point. Cutler was reported to have demanded a trade after Bates, the quarterback coach, left for a position at USC, so he was unhappy with the situation here before the trade talk controversy. Cook later admitted that the failure to retain Bates and Shanahan was a reason for Cutler's unhappiness.



                    Cutler's claim that Bowlen had "assured" him that there would be no changes was challenged by Bowlen. Bates was considered for retention along with Dennison, Turner and the S & C coach, but appears to have left because he no longer would have the same responsibilities under McDaniel.

                    The fact that Cutler was unhappy before the 'trade talk' controversy puts that controversy in a very different light. It should be noted that even though he claims to have been offended by trade talk his motivations point to his wanting a trade, and he later requested one, if not sooner, at the time that Bates left.

                    Cutler may have accepted a re-worked contract from the Broncos in lieu of a trade, and indications are that he and Cook already expected that the Broncos would re-work his before its termination, which the Broncos have done with other contracts.

                    Cook's MO is to create a media firestorm that forces teams to trade his clients, even though he publicly claims not to want this. His actions are at odds with his claims, however.

                    Creating fear that a popular player will be traded is an easy way to create resentment among fans, as they tend to side heavily with the player. The Broncos were particularly vulnerable because of having a new Head Coach, who was an unknown commodity to virtually all Bronco fans. McDaniels' status as a blank slate allowed overzealous fans to engage in a considerable amount of character assassination, and Cutler's earlier statements regarding trade talk encouraged this. Bowlen acted to prevent this controversy from getting to the point where it undermined the team.
                    good post, thanks for the info...

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                    • Originally posted by colinski View Post
                      Cutler [URL="http://www.denverpost.com/jaycutler/ci_11810112"]
                      Cutler was alluding to a real problem since learning the complicated new system presented a challenge for him, but the intelligence/familiarity with scheme issue appears to be part of his agent's strategy to 'bust him out' so it's not an objective issue so much as a crafted PR campaign strategy by Cutler and Cook.

                      The joint appearance with Cook and Cutler was staged immediately after news of the attempt by Tampa Bay to entice Denver into trading Cutler. Cook uses the apparent threat of losing a popular player as bargaining tool, and he has used this technique previously in the Favre and McNair controversies.

                      Cutler's desire to remain a Bronco was highly questionable at this point. Cutler was reported to have demanded a trade after Bates, the quarterback coach, left for a position at USC, so he was unhappy with the situation here before the trade talk controversy. Cook later admitted that the failure to retain Bates and Shanahan was a reason for Cutler's unhappiness.



                      Cutler's claim that Bowlen had "assured" him that there would be no changes was challenged by Bowlen. Bates was considered for retention along with Dennison, Turner and the S & C coach, but appears to have left because he no longer would have the same responsibilities under McDaniel.

                      The fact that Cutler was unhappy before the 'trade talk' controversy puts that controversy in a very different light. It should be noted that even though he claims to have been offended by trade talk his motivations point to his wanting a trade, and he later requested one, if not sooner, at the time that Bates left.

                      Cutler may have accepted a re-worked contract from the Broncos in lieu of a trade, and indications are that he and Cook already expected that the Broncos would re-work his before its termination, which the Broncos have done with other contracts.

                      Cook's MO is to create a media firestorm that forces teams to trade his clients, even though he publicly claims not to want this. His actions are at odds with his claims, however.

                      Creating fear that a popular player will be traded is an easy way to create resentment among fans, as they tend to side heavily with the player. The Broncos were particularly vulnerable because of having a new Head Coach, who was an unknown commodity to virtually all Bronco fans. McDaniels' status as a blank slate allowed overzealous fans to engage in a considerable amount of character assassination, and Cutler's earlier statements regarding trade talk encouraged this. Bowlen acted to prevent this controversy from getting to the point where it undermined the team.
                      It is just laughable that you would think that Cutler would have trouble learning a new system when the system in place was one of the most complicated systems in the NFL...

                      Both sides were playing the media as hard as they could...you can't solely blame Cutler and Cook for using all of the tools in their arsenal to try and make the situation work for them, it is a business as so many people try to point out.

                      As for the trade request when McDaniels was hired or when Bates left is a complete fabrication and all of the parties involved have refuted that ever happened. Cutler may have approached Bowlen with concerns, but he never requested a trade at that point...

                      What 25 yr. old probowl QB wouldn't be offended at trade rumors regarding them? The trade rumors started this, and McDaniels continuing to call Cutler "the player" made things worse. The nail in the coffin was McDaniels telling Cutler that they never actually seriously listened to trade talks and then turning around a week later and admitting that those talks did indeed take place...

                      Nobody has reported that Cutler asked for a new contract, this is pure speculation on your part. He was traded to the Bears with the same contract he had in Denver.

                      This is another speculative post propagated by rumors that have been refuted by all of the parties involved.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by broncobruj View Post
                        It is just laughable that you would think that Cutler would have trouble learning a new system when the system in place was one of the most complicated systems in the NFL...

                        Both sides were playing the media as hard as they could...you can't solely blame Cutler and Cook for using all of the tools in their arsenal to try and make the situation work for them, it is a business as so many people try to point out.

                        As for the trade request when McDaniels was hired or when Bates left is a complete fabrication and all of the parties involved have refuted that ever happened. Cutler may have approached Bowlen with concerns, but he never requested a trade at that point...

                        What 25 yr. old probowl QB wouldn't be offended at trade rumors regarding them? The trade rumors started this, and McDaniels continuing to call Cutler "the player" made things worse. The nail in the coffin was McDaniels telling Cutler that they never actually seriously listened to trade talks and then turning around a week later and admitting that those talks did indeed take place...

                        Nobody has reported that Cutler asked for a new contract, this is pure speculation on your part. He was traded to the Bears with the same contract he had in Denver.

                        This is another speculative post propagated by rumors that have been refuted by all of the parties involved.
                        What you are observing here is the residents of Colorado and Denver purposefully assasinating the character of another former Bronco player. It's a statewide passion and past-time. It's what they DO. The only other franchise I've ever witnessed this phenomenon with is the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, and to a far lesser degree, the Minnesota Timberwolves.

                        It's really quite ironic that such a beautiful state would produce such chippy people.

                        Oh well....I don't live there anymore.

                        --------------------------------------
                        "Pride goeth before the fall."



                        They're just mean people who won't tell the truth.

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                        • Originally posted by psychobear View Post
                          The answer to the question is simple. Denver had the rights to Culter... Denver traded those rights away. You can talk all you want about what lead up to the trade... at the end of the day it was Denver's front office that sent Jay Cutler out of Denver and to Chicago.
                          This is the thing though; When the FO finally decided to trade Cutler, he was a different Cutler than he was the previous years. This new Cutler, was disgruntled and it seemed apparent that there could be serious problems with the starting QB and the HC relations. If the problem was just with Bowlen, things maybe could have been different. Once this whole drama was on overdrive, there was a point of no return, and the Broncos hand was forced. Could they kept Jay? Yes they could have forced Jay to play here against his will, but why would they want to do that?

                          You just cannot have that if you intend to win in the playoffs.

                          PS EDIT: great post colinski @ 174 ^
                          Red 98

                          Kareem rises to the top

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                          • Originally posted by broncobruj View Post
                            It is just laughable that you would think that Cutler would have trouble learning a new system when the system in place was one of the most complicated systems in the NFL...

                            Both sides were playing the media as hard as they could...you can't solely blame Cutler and Cook for using all of the tools in their arsenal to try and make the situation work for them, it is a business as so many people try to point out.

                            As for the trade request when McDaniels was hired or when Bates left is a complete fabrication and all of the parties involved have refuted that ever happened. Cutler may have approached Bowlen with concerns, but he never requested a trade at that point...

                            What 25 yr. old probowl QB wouldn't be offended at trade rumors regarding them? The trade rumors started this, and McDaniels continuing to call Cutler "the player" made things worse. The nail in the coffin was McDaniels telling Cutler that they never actually seriously listened to trade talks and then turning around a week later and admitting that those talks did indeed take place...

                            Nobody has reported that Cutler asked for a new contract, this is pure speculation on your part. He was traded to the Bears with the same contract he had in Denver.

                            This is another speculative post propagated by rumors that have been refuted by all of the parties involved.
                            I've always said that you can gain a lot more insight about what is going on behind the scenes by looking at the actions more than what the words they say.

                            So what are the actions of the front office.
                            1. They got rid of the coaches that Cutler had requested stay after telling him they would be allowed to stay.
                            2. Their first action was to attemt a trade for a different QB sending Cutler out of town. I'll add that this QB in Cassel was the head coach's pet project.
                            3. They lied and got caught in their lie about the trade talks.
                            4. They arranged a meeting to talk things out.
                            5. They stated that the meeting went well.
                            6. They put Cutler on the open market.
                            7. They traded Cutler.

                            The actions of Jay Cutler and Cook.
                            1. Requested that his QB coach stay.
                            2. Let the media in on the trade talks after discovering them.
                            3. Flew in to discuss everything.
                            4. Told the media they were not happy after the meeting.
                            5. Cut off communication with the team.
                            6. Requested a trade.

                            None of the actions by either side indicate that money was the issue here. What you see from the Denver front office is that they lied to Jay 2 times. What is the reason for being deceptive? It doesn't seem that building around Jay Cutler was a priority for them although they wanted that to be the perception. Based on their actions... they were consistent all the way through to fit that theory.

                            What about Jay... Well his actions seem to say that he wanted to stick around. He requested the QB coach remain because he wanted to stay. He flew in to meet with them (note they did not fly out to him... they flew him in). Those are the signs of someone who wants to resolve things. Something clearly happened during the meeting that we weren't told about. I would guess, that the fact that building around Jay wasn't a priority, was confirmed. After that... his actions changed. That was the issue... not money... not his QB coach going elseware... not even McDaniels just plain being shady.

                            I don't get why people really blame Jay. After it was made clear that the Bronco's were not committed to him... he made it clear that he was no longer committed to them. If they wanted to hold on to Jay they could have done some things differently. I do believe that if they offered him a huge contract... it could have changed things. Why? Because that is an action that shows committment to him.
                            Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

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                            • Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                              McDaniels also said on being hired that he was excited to work with Cutler, knowing all along that Cassel was going to be available in trade. He also said initially that he did not actively try to trade Cutler and only listened to trade offers, only to go back later and acknowledge that he did in fact actively try to make that trade. McDaniels' word has little meaning these days.

                              When one person screws up, you don't expect the other person to fix the situation. Despite that, Cutler had his stuff shipped to Denver, came to town on the eve of the voluntary workouts to patch things up, only to be further antagonized by McDaniels (following which he made his only trade request). I still feel he shouldn't have asked for a trade, since that only played into McDaniels hands. Many ex-players interviewed said they wouldn't feel comfortable playing for McDaniels since they cannot trust him.
                              Exactly! I said the same things just after the trade, yet McD's supporters seem bent on blaming Cutler for the entire fiasco. McD lied about wanting to work with Cutler, and he lied about actively seeking to trade him. How can he be trusted?
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                              • Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                                This is the thing though; When the FO finally decided to trade Cutler, he was a different Cutler than he was the previous years. This new Cutler, was disgruntled and it seemed apparent that there could be serious problems with the starting QB and the HC relations. If the problem was just with Bowlen, things maybe could have been different. Once this whole drama was on overdrive, there was a point of no return, and the Broncos hand was forced. Could they kept Jay? Yes they could have forced Jay to play here against his will, but why would they want to do that?

                                You just cannot have that if you intend to win in the playoffs.

                                PS EDIT: great post colinski @ 174 ^
                                They did risk Jay becoming a cancer here because he was so disgruntled... but they could have done things differently. Even at the percieved point of no return, there were options that they chose not to attempt. If they waited on it a bit you have to wonder if things could have been resolved.

                                Overall I would say that something happened when they met that really got them to that point. I think the onus was on them at that point to clear things up. What in the world did they do during that meeting where thigns went so poorly? What did they plan to do during that meeting? You have to wonder if they didn't force the hand themselves.
                                Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

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