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  • Originally posted by Broncbeat View Post
    Ok, they dont and we did not either. McDaniels listened. Thats his fault, but just because other GMS ect say they dont or did not, does not mean McDaniels did. Your useing the fact that Peyton, Brady ect do not get shoped as your fact that Josh did. ???????? Come on man, what kind of fact is that?:go:
    That isn't a fact. I clearly stated that as my opinion.

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    • I Like Fenceposts!

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      • Originally posted by jhns View Post
        That isn't a fact. I clearly stated that as my opinion.
        Your statment to go look back at 2nd day of draft day was just a opinon?
        sigpic

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        • Originally posted by jhns View Post
          They sure do. Maybe not from talking about it amongst themselves. They can surely stop them from talking about it to them.

          As for the rest, it looks like it is opinion and we aren't going to share the rest. The Broncos were talking trade with Cutler involved. To me, that is shopping him. If they aren't shopping him, why is he in trade talks? Again though, we are going to have to agree to disagree because there is no typed out definition for this.
          Shopping means you are offering him in a trade .

          If you call me and i say I want to offer you cassel and 2 #1's for Cutler and I say no thanks then that doesnt mean I shopped Cutler it means you made an offer and I refused .

          If you are coming out a store and I offer you 2 grand for your car and you turn it down does that mean you are even entertaining the idea of selling your car ? If I up the offer to 10 and you still say no does that mean you have been shopping your car to prospective buyers ?
          "(Touchdowns) are the goal," Orton said. "You can run for as many yards as you want, throw for as many yards as you want, but you have to convert to seven points. I think we're going to be explosive, be dynamic, be versatile."

          "Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," - Kyle Orton

          Kyle Orton Army member #83 :logo: :smug:

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          • Originally posted by jhns View Post
            They sure do. Maybe not from talking about it amongst themselves. They can surely stop them from talking about it to them.
            I'm not trying to be mean, but I think that's a very naive approach to the NFL. If you have a player and other teams come and want to discuss a trade, you listen. That's the coach's job.

            It's required.

            As for the rest, it looks like it is opinion and we aren't going to share the rest.
            Well, it's opinion more or less in the same way "If I stay underwater without a breathing device for an hour, chances are good I'll drown" is an opinion.

            If you define both of those things as opinion, then sure. But no, "shopping a player around" usually does mean that the team that has the player initiates the trade talks. I hedged my words above because I was trying to be gentle.

            The Broncos were talking trade with Cutler involved. To me, that is shopping him.
            Okay, well then there's a disconnect in vocabulary here. You're using the term differently than most other folks.

            If they aren't shopping him, why is he in trade talks?
            Because it's the coach's job to listen to trade offers.

            Again though, we are going to have to agree to disagree because there is no typed out definition for this.
            Um... No. Not exactly a typed out definition, but both of these ideas ("shopping around" and that a coach has to listen to trade offers) are pretty commonly accepted - they're not written in stone, but I think we can safely call them both "facts" for our purposes here.

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            • Originally posted by KO8pectate View Post
              If you call me and i say I want to offer you cassel and 2 #1's for Cutler and I say no thanks then that doesnt mean I shopped Cutler it means you made an offer and I refused .
              That is the point. They didn't just say no thanks. They talked it out and tried seeing if there was a good deal that would ship out Cutler. Everyone that is has reported on it has said the trade talks stopped when Cassel was traded. They would have stopped when they started if they just said no and didn't shop Cutler.

              I would agree they aren't shopping him if they just listen and say no. Noone has claimed they did that though.

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              • OK, I am trying to put this controversy behind me and think of 2009 depth charts and 50 Year Bronco Anniversary Teams.

                But, for anyone to suggest that the Bronco organization did not play a major role in the steps which led to Jay Cutler being traded is naive at best.

                I agree with many that Josh McDaniels has evidenced an enormous ego, which is fine if he produces. My guess is there was a big clash of egos from the start and McDaniels had to prove that he was the boss. You see such silliness in new coach or new boss relationships all the time.

                It was clear from the description of meetings that McDaniels never conveyed to Cutler that he believed in him. The press conference at the NFL meetings confirmed this. Constantly calling Cutler "the player," instead of by his name is something that was intentionally demeaning. Its what some people do to people they perceive to be inferior in a chain of command. I would love to have evidence in a discrimination case that some boss constantly called my client "the employee."

                The whole phone call thing is a charade. By then, the die was cast. Cutler didn't believe in or want to play for McDaniels, and realized that Bowlen was letting McDaniels run things whatever way he wanted, and McDaniels found just another way to put his stamp on the team. Why replace Leach with Paxton?

                Anyhow, Cutler is gone and both parties were responsible. It's McDaniels' team now. Let's see how he does.

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                • Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                  I'm not trying to be mean, but I think that's a very naive approach to the NFL. If you have a player and other teams come and want to discuss a trade, you listen. That's the coach's job.

                  It's required.
                  Especially when you are a rookie head coach and a rookie GM. These high level front office players have a little fraternity. You have to build a relationship there to be able to make deals down the road. They have to work together in order to help elevate their team.

                  This reminds me of how Coke and Pepsi have members on each others Board of Directors. Even though they are rivals, they know that a certain amount of cooperation actually helps to elevate BOTH of them. Same here. They may be rival GMs, but they also have to work with other GMs and even help other GMs in order to elevate your own team.

                  When someone's first experience with you is having you slam the phone down on them, it is going to effect any potential deals down the road. When you are a n00b, sometimes you have to play the game to get into the frat.

                  They were polite, they listened, they said No. This helps build their rep in the FO world. Until egos got out of control (Ill let each reader insert their preference of ego here) and destroyed the whole thing.
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                  I adopt andrewmlb.

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                  • Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                    Especially when you are a rookie head coach and a rookie GM. These high level front office players have a little fraternity. You have to build a relationship there to be able to make deals down the road. They have to work together in order to help elevate their team.

                    This reminds me of how Coke and Pepsi have members on each others Board of Directors. Even though they are rivals, they know that a certain amount of cooperation actually helps to elevate BOTH of them. Same here. They may be rival GMs, but they also have to work with other GMs and even help other GMs in order to elevate your own team.

                    When someone's first experience with you is having you slam the phone down on them, it is going to effect any potential deals down the road. When you are a n00b, sometimes you have to play the game to get into the frat.

                    They were polite, they listened, they said No. This helps build their rep in the FO world. Until egos got out of control (Ill let each reader insert their preference of ego here) and destroyed the whole thing.
                    You make some great points there.

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                    • Originally posted by jhns View Post
                      That is the point. They didn't just say no thanks. They talked it out and tried seeing if there was a good deal that would ship out Cutler. Everyone that is has reported on it has said the trade talks stopped when Cassel was traded. They would have stopped when they started if they just said no and didn't shop Cutler.

                      I would agree they aren't shopping him if they just listen and say no. Noone has claimed they did that though.
                      Its there job to talk it out and listen to every offer that may better the team .

                      As Ive said before when you dont make the playoffs and blow 3 games division lead with 3 games to go there are no guarantees at any position.

                      As a new coach and gm you also have to gauge the value around the league of all your players so when teams call in and make offers you listen because its the only way to determine the true values of the players around the league .

                      As I said before some of you have put players who havent accomplished anything on a pedestal . We are not talking about Brady or Manning the state of our franchise going into the offseason dictates that we listen to all offers made .
                      "(Touchdowns) are the goal," Orton said. "You can run for as many yards as you want, throw for as many yards as you want, but you have to convert to seven points. I think we're going to be explosive, be dynamic, be versatile."

                      "Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," - Kyle Orton

                      Kyle Orton Army member #83 :logo: :smug:

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                        Especially when you are a rookie head coach and a rookie GM. These high level front office players have a little fraternity. You have to build a relationship there to be able to make deals down the road. They have to work together in order to help elevate their team.

                        This reminds me of how Coke and Pepsi have members on each others Board of Directors. Even though they are rivals, they know that a certain amount of cooperation actually helps to elevate BOTH of them. Same here. They may be rival GMs, but they also have to work with other GMs and even help other GMs in order to elevate your own team.

                        When someone's first experience with you is having you slam the phone down on them, it is going to effect any potential deals down the road. When you are a n00b, sometimes you have to play the game to get into the frat.

                        They were polite, they listened, they said No. This helps build their rep in the FO world. Until egos got out of control (Ill let each reader insert their preference of ego here) and destroyed the whole thing.
                        Do you think the cardinals listen to trade offers for fitzgerald? Do oyu think the nuggets listen to trade offers for Carmelo? You can listen.......... and then laugh. They dismissed our best player because McD didn't want to have to coach his system to a another QB. He wanted Cassel because he didn't have to coach him a new system. But he got caught with his pants down. Nobody is untradable. But if there is anyone, it SHOULD be your best player. It's all on McD for starting this. No one else
                        I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
                        I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
                        I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
                        "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
                        God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
                        Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

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                        • Originally posted by elecshoc View Post
                          You make some great points there.
                          Thank you!

                          There are a thousand ways to look at the situation. And the reality is, we will probably never know 100% of what happened.

                          I just know that, as a business person, I can see why they didnt slam the phone. You just dont do that in the corporate world. It is suicide. Once you ruin one relationship like that, the dominoes tumble from there. And then you are truly in trouble.

                          Lets not kid yourself, football is a business. To us, as fans, it is more. But for the owners and FO, it is a corporation set to make money. And they have to run it like a business or they are going to end up like the NHL's Phoenix Coyotes.

                          Thats why I think this situation played out like it did with the "Phone Call."
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                          I adopt andrewmlb.

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                          • Originally posted by KO8pectate View Post
                            Its there job to talk it out and listen to every offer that may better the team .

                            As Ive said before when you dont make the playoffs and blow 3 games division lead with 3 games to go there are no guarantees at any position.

                            As a new coach and gm you also have to gauge the value around the league of all your players so when teams call in and make offers you listen because its the only way to determine the true values of the players around the league .

                            As I said before some of you have put players who havent accomplished anything on a pedestal . We are not talking about Brady or Manning the state of our franchise going into the offseason dictates that we listen to all offers made .
                            So I guess you wouldn't want Dan Marino in his prime. He had losing season and never won a Super Bowl. He's expendable right? No chance, you never trade your franchise QB who has more talent than anyone his age in the NFL
                            I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
                            I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
                            I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
                            "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
                            God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
                            Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

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                            • Originally posted by andrewmlb View Post
                              Do you think the cardinals listen to trade offers for fitzgerald? Do oyu think the nuggets listen to trade offers for Carmelo? You can listen.......... and then laugh. They dismissed our best player because McD didn't want to have to coach his system to a another QB. He wanted Cassel because he didn't have to coach him a new system. But he got caught with his pants down. Nobody is untradable. But if there is anyone, it SHOULD be your best player. It's all on McD for starting this. No one else
                              I dont know what you do out in the real world, Andrew, but I know that if I laughed at someone in my job (I work in sales for a Fortune 500 company), I would be in serious trouble. I listen to foolishness all the time and I politely decline.

                              You never know how the person on the other side of the phone is going to affect your future. But, I call tell you this, if you laugh at them, they will cause problems in your future.

                              I think this is what Mcd and X did. They listened, they politely declined. That is how you have to act in business. You cant laugh. It just does not happen. And if you do it, you will be out of a job in no time. Because when no one will work with you, you are sunk.
                              sigpic

                              I adopt andrewmlb.

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                              • Originally posted by andrewmlb View Post
                                So I guess you wouldn't want Dan Marino in his prime. He had losing season and never won a Super Bowl. He's expendable right? No chance, you never trade your franchise QB who has more talent than anyone his age in the NFL
                                They werent going to trade him. They reached out to him over and over and over. Mcd even ate crow and held up the Cutler jersey knowing how people were going to rip him over it.



                                They made mistakes in handling the situation and the media spin. They tried to fix it. They tried to make amends. Cutler refused to return calls. Even the OWNERS calls. That, in itself, is unforgivable.

                                No one WANTED to trade Cutler. Cutler forced them to. He embarassed the franchise and the owner. When you embarass your boss and company, you get fired. Simple as that.
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                                I adopt andrewmlb.

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