McD / Cutler mess (Merged)

[jhns]

Lets see, he has worked on both sides of the ball and in recruitment for a dynasty team in NE, revamped the defense, put together a solid veteran coaching staff, is implementing a brand new offense, addressed EVERYTHING at Dove Valley from the top all the way down to the FOOD they serve.

And we define his coaching stint but Cutlers temper tantrum.....

I hope you never make one mistake in life that everyone hammers you on so hard in your life.

Besides, Mcd didnt choose X, Bowlen did. The Goodmans were there, but they didnt play nice and got bounced. So Pat made the call to bring in two fresh thinkers. Mcd didnt make that call.

I'm not even talking about Xanders. He has no control. McDaniels is the GM and has claimed it in public. He straight said all player decisions go through him. We gave a rookie head coach full control of the team. More control than even the Patriots give their head coach.

I don't define it by Cutler. I don't approve of a few of the moves. I also don't define his coaching as anything. He may prove to be a great coach. I question his GM skills.

The Goodmans didn't play nice? When did you hear this?

I don't get paid millions in my job and my job doesn't have millions of followers that care about my decisions. I can make mistakes all day and only have to hear about them from one or two people. If I ever get control of an NFL team, I would expect to be critisized for my mistakes. If people critisized my current mistakes, I would just have to wonder why they even care.

[McSmashie]

A HC should know his job. All the learning curve should be is to get to know how the organization runs. He has staff to help him with that. He has a GM who is probably less qualified to be a GM than McD is to be a coach. That is a major problem and has shown immensely this off season. This is not a good thing, nor is it acceptable to me.

There is a big difference between have a management position or middle management position and switching jobs as opposed to running an organization.

Learning a job is part of knowing a job. You cant KNOW something you have never done before. You can be prepped to the hilt and you will never have all the answers.

We are just used to a tremendously long tenured coach who already had all this down. And it is a change.

But HCs arent omnipotent or invincible. Experienced HCs are good at pretending they are (like doctors and lawyers). And they are no different than anyone else. They have to learn and grow.

And management is management. Just because this is football doesnt make it any different from anyone running another other organization. Same principles apply.

The difference is, you arent emotionally invested in how someone runs Coca-Cola or Microsoft or 7-Eleven. You are emotionally attached to the Broncos so this stuff is magnified 100 times emotional for you, like the rest of us.

But that doesnt make it different.

[acpell671]

Lets see, he has worked on both sides of the ball and in recruitment for a dynasty team in NE, revamped the defense, put together a solid veteran coaching staff, is implementing a brand new offense, addressed EVERYTHING at Dove Valley from the top all the way down to the FOOD they serve.

And we define his coaching stint but Cutlers temper tantrum.....

I hope you never make one mistake in life that everyone hammers you on so hard in your life.

Besides, Mcd didnt choose X, Bowlen did. The Goodmans were there, but they didnt play nice and got bounced. So Pat made the call to bring in two fresh thinkers. Mcd didnt make that call.

It's obvious you have no affection or appreciation for what Jay has done here in Denver and that's okay, it's your right as a fan but this is not about Cutler's attitude. Based on the way you word it, it's obvious that you are not even looking at this in any kind of subjective manner because you feel too burned by Cutler... and that's okay, too.

However, the result of this issue is that we traded a 25 year Pro Bowl QB who had not even reached his prime yet which is almost unprecedented. The organization had invested millions of dollars and 3 years grooming him to be the franchise qb for the next decade. It may define McD's career if he should fail, but if he creates a winning product on the field, it all goes away. We will not know for many years what will define McD's career, so I think your statement is a little strongly worded.

[McSmashie]

The Goodmans didn't play nice? When did you hear this?

Originally, the FO structure was going to be McD as coach and the Goodmans and Xanders maintaining their current positions. When the Goodmans were bounced, THE RUMORS said that it was because they were refusing to work with McD.

I don't get paid millions in my job and my job doesn't have millions of followers that care about my decisions.

Coca-Cola has BILLIONS of followers. Did you get this upset when they made New Coke?

[jhns]

Originally, the FO structure was going to be McD as coach and the Goodmans and Xanders maintaining their current positions. When the Goodmans were bounced, THE RUMORS said that it was because they were refusing to work with McD.

Coca-Cola has BILLIONS of followers. Did you get this upset when they made New Coke?

I know what the original structure was. I also never heard those rumors. The only rumor I ever heard was Xanders was getting other offers and was given the GM job outright instead of split because McDaniels and Bowlen wanted to retain him. To give him the GM job, they had to take the other half from the GOodmans. Again though, I have never seen anything even resembling something true that said the Goodmans wouldn't "play nice".

I drink Pepsi products. I don't care what Coke does. If Pepsi makes a new drink, I don't care at all. If they stopped producing Mountain Dew, I would be just as mad as I am that McDaniels gave away Cutler.

[McSmashie]

It's obvious you have no affection or appreciation for what Jay has done here in Denver and that's okay, it's your right as a fan but this is not about Cutler's attitude. Based on the way you word it, it's obvious that you are not even looking at this in any kind of subjective manner because you feel too burned by Cutler... and that's okay, too.

Please dont assume my feelings towards Jay. I liked what Jay was growing into. But he is gone. And I dont like what he did when he left.

I do like where McD is going. Those are my feelings and, yes, I am entitled to them. I have looked at it subjectively and this is how I feel. These are my opinions and they are no more valid or worse than yours.

However, the result of this issue is that we traded a 25 year Pro Bowl QB who had not even reached his prime yet which is almost unprecedented. The organization had invested millions of dollars and 3 years grooming him to be the franchise qb for the next decade. It may define McD's career if he should fail, but if he creates a winning product on the field, it all goes away. We will not know for many years what will define McD's career, so I think your statement is a little strongly worded.

It isnt unprecendented. It was done with Jeff George as well. As far as being a Pro Bowl QB, he wouldnt have been if the voting was done after the season. Chad Pennington or (god help me) Philip Rivers would have gone in his place.

[McSmashie]

I know what the original structure was. I also never heard those rumors. The only rumor I ever heard was Xanders was getting other offers and was given the GM job outright instead of split because McDaniels and Bowlen wanted to retain him. To give him the GM job, they had to take the other half from the GOodmans. Again though, I have never seen anything even resembling something true that said the Goodmans wouldn't "play nice".

Thats the funny thing about rumors....different people hear different ones.

I drink Pepsi products. I don't care what Coke does. If Pepsi makes a new drink, I don't care at all. If they stopped producing Mountain Dew, I would be just as mad as I am that McDaniels gave away Cutler.

So when Pepsi made Crystal Pepsi (GIANT MISTAKE), you didnt care. But when the Broncos trade Cutler, you are devastated.

It is because of the emotional attachment we all have for this team. We love those darn Donks! So everything they do is GIGANTIC (to us). To non-fans, it is just another business.

[jhns]

It isnt unprecendented. It was done with Jeff George as well. As far as being a Pro Bowl QB, he wouldnt have been if the voting was done after the season. Chad Pennington or (god help me) Philip Rivers would have gone in his place.

Why are you trying to discredit him now? If anything, Favre deserved it less than Cutler. How is it Cutler that wouldn't have gone?

Cutler is a pro bowler. The voting is when the voting has always been. You can't take it from him no matter how much you want to. Everyone is defined by their number of pro bowls and the same argument can be made about many of them. Maybe we should just take all those honors away and redo them based on how we think they would have gone.. Maybe we should correct eveyone about Lynch because it was pretty obvious he wasn't one of the best couple safeties his last year in the pro bowl.

[AC1]

Originally, the FO structure was going to be McD as coach and the Goodmans and Xanders maintaining their current positions. When the Goodmans were bounced, THE RUMORS said that it was because they were refusing to work with McD.

Actually, most rumors were that it was a power-play by McDaniels (aided by Xanders), who ultimately gained the most from their departure. Jim Goodman was to have final say over personnel, but after he leaves, instead of Xanders, McDaniels gets final say.

Goodman not working with McDaniels doesn't make sense, since he was instrumental in the hiring of McDaniels.

[broncobruj]

Coca-Cola has BILLIONS of followers. Did you get this upset when they made New Coke?

I don't know if you are too young to remember, or you don't care to remember...millions of people were irate to the point that they boycotted Coke, started hoarding the old coke, or switched to Pepsi after the "new coke" was introduced. "New Coke" was an utter failure and didn't last long. So, are you calling McDaniels the new Bellicheck?

New Coke

[jhns]

So when Pepsi made Crystal Pepsi (GIANT MISTAKE), you didnt care. But when the Broncos trade Cutler, you are devastated.

It is because of the emotional attachment we all have for this team. We love those darn Donks! So everything they do is GIGANTIC (to us). To non-fans, it is just another business.

I don't get your analogy here. How is that the same? I can just not drink the other product. If you say they are getting rid of Mountain Dew and replacing it with that product, then it would be the same thing. Yes, I would be extremely mad if they did that.

[CanDB]

Originally, the FO structure was going to be McD as coach and the Goodmans and Xanders maintaining their current positions. When the Goodmans were bounced, THE RUMORS said that it was because they were refusing to work with McD.



Coca-Cola has BILLIONS of followers. Did you get this upset when they made New Coke?

Walk away Smash........some of these folks will "discuss" every miniscule detail of what you say, until you start to vomit a little (maybe a lot). That's why it's hard to walk away.......there is a fine line between a good discussion with a potential decent outcome, versus an endless debate that is headed to nowhere, unless you give in. Walk away.....there are better things to do, and better threads to have good dialogue in.

Time to do some yardwork.......I'm sure some folks don't have my opportunity, to enjoy the sun and not be at work or wherever.......

I'm a lucky old fart!!!

[acpell671]

Learning a job is part of knowing a job. You cant KNOW something you have never done before. You can be prepped to the hilt and you will never have all the answers.

We are just used to a tremendously long tenured coach who already had all this down. And it is a change.

You do bring up a very good point that we have had a long tenured coach and it is a bit different for us.

But going back to your first point, you're right. You can't know something you've never done before. So maybe McD was not a qualified hire, in my opinion. Just last year, BB told him that he wasn't ready. What had he done this past year that all of a sudden he was qualified to run the Denver Broncos including making major personnel decisions? Many experienced coaches out there don't get to manage personnel on their teams. Why do I have to be understanding of Josh McDaniel's "rookie mistakes" that even the owner has admitted to?

[McSmashie]

Why are you trying to discredit him now? If anything, Favre deserved it less than Cutler. How is it Cutler that wouldn't have gone?

Cutler is a pro bowler. The voting is when the voting has always been. You can't take it from him no matter how much you want to. Everyone is defined by their number of pro bowls and the same argument can be made about many of them. Maybe we should just take all those honors away and redo them based on how we think they would have gone.. Maybe we should correct eveyone about Lynch because it was pretty obvious he wasn't one of the best couple safeties his last year in the pro bowl.

Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. It doesnt have anything to do with ACTUAL performance. Plenty of people go to the Pro Bowl that didnt deserve it. Plenty are left off that SHOULD have gone (CLADY!!!).

It just isnt a reason to condemn the trade.

Ok, Im tapping out. My lawn isnt mowing itself. You guys can beat me up while Im gone!

[broncobruj]

As far as being a Pro Bowl QB, he wouldnt have been if the voting was done after the season. Chad Pennington or (god help me) Philip Rivers would have gone in his place.

I'm posting this again because it applies to this specific argument...


Here we go again...when you have one of the worst defenses in the league not doing you any favors and giving you the worst starting field position in the league, it's kinda hard to put up as many points as we did. I bet I can count on one hand the offenses and QB's that could have done what we did offensively with what was given to us by our defense and special teams...you can't rest our failures last year solely at the feet of Cutler. You can mostly blame our defense and special teams, and you can also lay a lot of blame on the coaching for not calling more runs. Then again, I can't blame the coaching too much for being gun shy about calling running plays when we were dropping RB's like flies...hell, we even had to pull one out of a Denver mall kiosk for the last game...