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  • Can someone get the OP some tissue?

    Seriously, at this point what is McDaniels supposed to have proven. Sure, he hasn't proven he can win yet, but he also hasn't lost us any games yet.

    Why don't we let the guy coach first before saying whether he's good or bad?

    Most of this seems to stem from the whole Cutler trade. Bitter much?

    I'm sure a lot of people were bitter too when the Patriots replaced their number 1 draft pick, All-Pro, Rocket-armed, took-New England-to-the-Superbowl QB Drew Bledsoe with a lanky, couldn't pass for 3,000 yards in a season guy named Tom Brady. Bledsoe could have played. As a matter of fact, he did play against Pittsburgh when Brady went down with an ankle injury.

    The Cleveland fans also cried in their pillows at night when Belichick got rid of Hall-of-Famer Bernie Kosar. They went 11-5 the following year.

    Those 2 instances seem to have worked out well. So maybe this will too. But we won't know until the Broncos take the field.
    Last edited by Crazy8; 05-28-2009, 04:59 PM.

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    • Originally posted by BroncosRockdaRockies View Post
      Because we all know what the phone call is about before we answer it?
      Read the next paragraph. You are reacting like the conversation went like this:

      Hello?
      Yeah.
      Can I have your Pro Bowl qb?
      Ummm.... no.


      Get for real. If that's how the conversation went, do you think it would have leaked the way it did? Try something a little more intelligent. If you don't see that the Broncos entertained an offer for Cutler, then you are a fool, sorry. Josh McD, by his own admission, entertained the offer.

      If you read further on my post, the point was that McDaniels just didn't want Cutler. I don't have a problem with that. That's his choice as a HC. I may or may not agree, but I'm sure he has his reasons. My problem is that the guy has no idea what he's doing as a defacto GM in this league. There are posts below mine that even explain how BB was not in control of personnel, and still is not btw, of the New England Patriots. Josh McD is NOT BB, nor does he have any requisite experience to be a GM of this team. I have a big problem with that and as a Bronco fan.
      Last edited by acpell671; 05-28-2009, 06:19 PM.

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        • Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
          Read the next paragraph. You are reacting like the conversation went like this:

          Hello?
          Yeah.
          Can I have your Pro Bowl qb?
          Ummm.... no.


          Get for real. If that's how the conversation went, do you think it would have leaked the way it did? Try something a little more intelligent. If you don't see that the Broncos entertained an offer for Cutler, then you are a fool, sorry. Josh McD, by his own admission, entertained the offer.

          If you read further on my post, the point was that McDaniels just didn't want Cutler. I don't have a problem with that. That's his choice as a HC. I may or may not agree, but I'm sure he has his reasons. My problem is that the guy has no idea what he's doing as a defacto GM in this league. There are posts below mine that even explain how BB was not in control of personnel, and still is not btw, of the New England Patriots. Josh McD is NOT BB, nor does he have any requisite experience to be a GM of this team. I have a big problem with that and as a Bronco fan.
          I didn't think anyone still believed that JM only "listened to calls" on Cutler. He's been caught lying on that one. He was actively trying to trade Cutler, while at the same time trying to bring Cassel to Denver. The details about the draft picks involved have been fuzzy (it was widely reported that the trade in question was a three-way trade sending Cutler to either TB or Detroit, Cassel to Denver, and draft picks from TB or Detroit to NE; the Boston area media on the other hand were talking about JM offering the 12th pick to NE for Cassel, while simultaneously talking to Det and TB to trade Cutler to them for draft pick(s)), but it is widely believed that JM did a lot more than "listen to offers". Heck, he himself said in regards to acquiring Cassel that "we were late to the dance". That doesn't sound like someone who was only "listening to offers".

          As to your last paragraph, I think I agree for the most part. The shocking thing to me is that McDaniels was hired without adequate clarification on Cassel. Everyone in the league knew that there was no way NE was keeping Cassel, given his cap number. It stands to reason therefore that the Broncos would have asked McDaniels if he would be happy working with Cutler, knowing that Cassel will be available. The fact that McDaniels got the job would suggest that he either claimed that Cassel wouldn't be available (showing surprising naivete) or lied about his interest in bringing Cassel on board, just to get the job.

          McDaniels has made only a few "football" mistakes, though one of them is widely regarded as a colossal mistake (I actually think he made another mistake just as big, by not retaining the offensive system that gave us the best young offense in the league). However, the way he has carried himself since coming on board has shown a person low on character and integrity and high on personal ego. To go from Reeves, Phillips and Shanahan (all highly respected, stand-up guys) to a guy like this is unfortunate from a character standpoint.
          Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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          • Agree with the OP, a Defensive Coach should have been hired. We went from fixing the D and being able to contend, to all out rebuilding mode. Yet we dont have our first round pick next year, but even the owner has all but admitted we are rebuilding, what did I miss? We will see what happens next year, but my question for posters like McSmashie is: Will you join my school of thought if McDaniels falls flat on his face? I will certainly eat crow if he excels.

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            • Originally posted by Brody Epic View Post
              Agree with the OP, a Defensive Coach should have been hired. We went from fixing the D and being able to contend, to all out rebuilding mode. Yet we dont have our first round pick next year, but even the owner has all but admitted we are rebuilding, what did I miss? We will see what happens next year, but my question for posters like McSmashie is: Will you join my school of thought if McDaniels falls flat on his face? I will certainly eat crow if he excels.
              Did you really think a new head coach would come and keep an old coaches system? That doesnt happen. When a change is made on a struggling team, the new coach puts his stamp on things.

              I know you will bring up Mike Tomlin, but he inherited a solid team. Different situation.

              If McD starts failing, I will offer my thoughts on how he improves. But it is not fair to judge him before you have any idea if his vision will work or not. Give the man a shot. He is building his vision for the future and he deserves a change before you burn him at the stake.
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              • What really staggers the mind is how many of us think we have all the information about what transpired between Cutler and the Broncos...

                :brick:

                We don't know, we probably never will. All we have is what the media has spoonfed us and we're left to form our own opinions about who was 'right' and who was 'wrong'.

                Shanahan was a great coach for the Broncos, but it was time for a change.
                Jay Cutler is a very promising QB, and could have made a fine career here in Denver, but egos and attitudes were not condusive on either side to enable that to happen. It's tragic, but it's OVER- time to move on.

                Denver had a lot to prove even without the Cutler fiasco. That much hasn't changed. Cutler is valuable, but he's not the whole team. Many seem to overlook the influence that coaches have on the performance of their players.

                Let me put this another way: Would you rather have McDaniels coach your QB? or Lovie Smith?

                ....perhaps McDaniels has already proven something afterall.

                In the attempt of looking at the team as a whole, perhaps a superstar QB is not what will be required to carry the Broncos deep in the playoffs. Perhaps what's needed is one who manages an efficient offense, takes what the Defense allows, and limits mistakes.

                If McDaniels can get Kyle Orton (or Chris Simms) to play that way, then maybe, just maybe- the other talented players on offense can put the ball in the endzone and we'll be treated to a lot more Mile High Salutes :salute!:

                As for the Defense...there were obvious changes that had to be made- drastic ones at that. Like bringing in a proven Defensive mind to restructure the Defense and completely shift the scheme while bringing in a few savy vetrans from free agency...

                I wonder how much more drastic McDaniels should get before people begin to think he's actually doing things to address the Defense concerns?

                Devil's advocate would suggest he should have used the first pick in the draft on Defense (rather then their second)...

                But if I had to do something to offset the loss of my ProBowl QB (that I wasn't expecting when I took the job) one position I know can make an IMMEDIATE impact in the first year is Running Back.
                McDaniels has to ensure that the QB (whoever he is) is surrounded by a great Offense.

                If the Broncos are fortunate enough to avoid the injury bug that plagued them last year, they may not have to rely on their QB to throw 40+ times a game and if so- a superstar QB will not be necessary to win more games then the 3-5 everyone seems to be forecasting.

                The Denver Broncos have gone through some gut-wrenching changes this offseason and the Orange and Blue Faithful have witnessed a lot of unsetteling events unfold. I for one choose to reserve my judgement on what's transpired until after I've seen what this team can do this coming season, and I'll be rooting for McDaniels and the rest of my Denver Broncos to succeede beyond all expectations!

                Last edited by Mile High Jedi; 05-28-2009, 07:59 PM.

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                • Glad you posted this thread. Noone has even mentioned anything about the JMD Cutler situation on these boards yet..
                  The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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                  • Originally posted by Mile High Jedi View Post
                    What really staggers the mind is how many of us think we have all the information about what transpired between Cutler and the Broncos...
                    What, you didnt know we are ALL investigative reporters????
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                    • Why would anyone resurrect a 2 month old thread? Not enough attention at home?

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                      • Originally posted by SimonSteele View Post
                        McDaniels couldn't figure out how to make a high yardage offense be more productive in the redzone. So he scratched our high yardage offense in favor of a question mark in yardage and points. I'd rather have one problem instead of making two, but that's just me. What do I know?
                        Wins and Losses are decided by points not yardage. So, the only problem that needs to be addressed is that one, we must score. Example (albeit extreme), if we have the best special teams in the league and the best defense in the league and as a result average starting field position is the opponents 20 yard line, we would probably be last in yardage and first in scoring and probably go 19-0. Alternatively, if we are weak in those areas and have 99 play drives all game long that dont generate any points, then we would be first in yardage, last in scoring and 0-16 as a team.

                        Which team would you rather be? The #1 offense with an 0-16 record or the last place offense with a perfect season and a Superbowl Championship. I know that the example is silly, but in reality our team will most likely be somewhere in between the two extremes, hopefully closer to the 19-0 scenario (and no I am not saying we are going 19-0 this year).

                        But to your point, I think McDaniels did figure out how to make the offense more productive. By telling Cutler (when he was still with us) to take care of the flippin' football, make better choices, make better reads and stop forcing the ball into triple coverage. We know the rest of that story. Now it will be interesting to see how things pan out.
                        Remember: If you dont feed the trolls - they will go away! Neither logic nor a compelling argument will make a difference.

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                        • Originally posted by oldster View Post
                          Why would anyone resurrect a 2 month old thread? Not enough attention at home?
                          Sadly no.....even my dogs are ignoring me!
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                          • Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
                            R

                            If that's how the conversation went, do you think it would have leaked the way it did? Try something a little more intelligent. If you don't see that the Broncos entertained an offer for Cutler, then you are a fool, sorry. Josh McD, by his own admission, entertained the offer.

                            I
                            Ironic that the leak apparently came from a Boston paper. As for your last two sentences, so and so?

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                            • Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                              Did you really think a new head coach would come and keep an old coaches system? That doesnt happen. When a change is made on a struggling team, the new coach puts his stamp on things.

                              I know you will bring up Mike Tomlin, but he inherited a solid team. Different situation.

                              If McD starts failing, I will offer my thoughts on how he improves. But it is not fair to judge him before you have any idea if his vision will work or not. Give the man a shot. He is building his vision for the future and he deserves a change before you burn him at the stake.
                              Fair enough, but I will take my Lonny Paxton, 43 RBs on the Roster, unprotected 1st round Draft Pick, potshots as per usual. Here's to a 10 win 09.

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                              • Hey, gang.

                                I know this topic has been beaten to death (and I helped!) but all the same a lot of people still have questions and are still interested in voicing their opinions.

                                That's what a message board is for. That's why this community is here.

                                Help us out and refrain from telling people to "get over it" or "this thread is useless - it's been done" - there are a lot of posts in this thread and even now new clarity on what happened is being brought to the table.

                                So no, it's not useless. Some people still find it interesting and worth discussing.

                                If you're not one of those people, move on to the next thread.

                                Thanks.

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