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  • Originally posted by KansasKrista View Post
    It has been a very embarassing few days for the Bronco organization. I can see where fans are angry and the media is laughing. I can understand why Jay Cutler was hurt and angry and how many feel that McDaniels made a terrible mistake. I get all of that but, to flip out and say you are done being a fan or to think McDaniels needs to go is totally over-reacting!!
    McDaniels had a chance to get the QB he wanted to work with for the next several years.. a QB who knows his system, and obviously is a character guy who has a tremendous upside. If the trade would have gone down, Denver would have had Matt Cassel and possibly a high first round pick by trading Cutler... if that would have happened, I think many would have been praising his brilliance. He took a big gamble and it all blew up in his face but, I don't fault him for wanting a QB who he knows very well and has worked with for years. It is kind of like betting everything you have on a horse.. everything is riding on that bet so, I am sure you would go with a horse you know very well and have won countless times with.. it would be more difficult to gamble everything on a horse you know almost nothing about and don't have that trust with. McDaniels knows what direction he wants to take this franchise in and he wanted Cassel... I see no real problem with that except that it all failed miserably and now he has a big mess to clean up. And then there is Cutler.. again, I have no issue with him being hurt and angry but, he shouldn't have spouted off to the media.. Cutler shares a big responsibility in how everyone is looking at our team right now. Oh, I know many think it is the organizations fault but, all could have been diffused if only Cutler kept it all behind closed doors and acted like everything was ok. I have pride as a Bronco fan and I don't like how all of this looks, and yes, I put some of that blame onto Cutler's shoulders and to not do that is giving this guy a pass for being unprofessional and immature. He just needs to get over it... if he doesn't Denver will have major issues this season. As a Denver fan who plans on sticking it out no matter what, I sincerely hope Cutler shows some maturity and at least outwardly shows that this is squashed.
    Now, we have Marshall who seems to be a suspension waiting to happen... chances are very good Marshall will be suspended for a long period of time.. Marshall is unreliable.. do we really want a head case like that in Denver?
    McDaniel's is trying to change the atmosphere is Denver... he is trying to build a winning team. He is trying to build a team with character and leadership. Denver needs a change... things weren't working and I think it is fair to say alot of the players Shanahan brought in had real character issues. Let's give McDaniels a chance to fix this and see what kind of team he puts on the field this year... give him a chance before everyone freaks out. I think when we look back in a few years we will be happy McDaniels came to Denver.
    1. If the trade for Cassel had gone through, we would not have gotten a first round pick. From our perspective, it was a straight-up trade of Cutler for Cassel.

    2. Everyone was more than willing to give him a chance when he came in. I still am, to a certain extent. But you can't just come in and dismantle somthing when no one has any guarantee that you can rebuild it.

    3. For someone to come in, look at the 2nd ranked offense (with 8 RBs on IR), the 30th ranked defense and decide that the QB needs to change, makes me nervous about that person's judgment.

    I have no problem with giving McDaniels a chance as long as he looks to fix what's broken, not break what has been fixed.
    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Chidoze View Post
      People who are calling Cutler the whiner and baby need to stop whining about it, honestly.

      Bronco fans are such whiners and babies.
      Oh yeah!!!!!!! Well I think that people who live in Southern California are whiners and crybabies......... So there.
      Those Indians could prove troublesome...General George Armstrong Custer

      Comment


      • Its a Damn shame when Woody Paige is the voice of reason
        sigpic

        Thanks to dbfan2007 for sig

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cutler2007 View Post
          Who knows all's well that end's well.

          We may all hate trading Cutler, but I will support his right to do it. With Bowlen's consent, he can do whatever he feels needs to get done to get us back into the playoffs.

          ONE playoff win in 10 years guys...
          That's your prerogative. Just like it's my prerogative to not trust a guy who looks at the 2nd ranked offense and the 30th ranked defense and decides that it's the QB that needs to change.

          If McDaniels ends up being right, I'll praise him for that. I don't trust him right now.

          One of the common factors we had during that 10 year span, was the absence of a true franchise QB. Now that we finally have one, you support trading him away?

          I'm not denying I am a fan of Mike Shanahan. I wish instead of firing him, Bowlen had just promoted Jim Goodman to GM and made Shanahan focus on just coaching. But that's over and done with. This isn't about that. This is about McDaniels.

          I was optimistic about McDaniels and still remain so. But are you telling me that, knowing what we do now, that you wouldn't have rather had Rex Ryan (who has already acquired Bart Scott and Lito Shepperd) than Josh McDaniels right now?
          Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by AC1 View Post
            1. If the trade for Cassel had gone through, we would not have gotten a first round pick. From our perspective, it was a straight-up trade of Cutler for Cassel.
            Actually, we would have lost Cutler AND our first-rounder.

            2. Everyone was more than willing to give him a chance when he came in. I still am, to a certain extent. But you can't just come in and dismantle somthing when no one has any guarantee that you can rebuild it.
            Well, I sort of disagree.

            He's the head coach. He's been empowered by the owner to make certain decisions - tough decisions, as Mike Shanahan would say. If he comes in and decides 'this isn't going to work', that's his right.

            HOWEVER...where I have a problem with everything is the fact that he lied to Jay about wanting to develop a good relationship founded on great communication, and then proceeded to lie to the media and fans about wanting to trade Jay, and now is keeping his silence when he got caught in his lie. Thus far, McDaniels has shown me zero integrity, which is important for a head coach.

            3. For someone to come in, look at the 2nd ranked offense (with 8 RBs on IR), the 30th ranked defense and decide that the QB needs to change, makes me nervous about that person's judgment.
            I can agree with that. No one with any type of talent evaluating skills believes for a second that Cassel is a better, more talented quarterback than Cutler. This is a situation in which a coach believes his scheme supercedes talent, and I have a big problem with that.

            I have no problem with giving McDaniels a chance as long as he looks to fix what's broken, not break what has been fixed.
            I more or less agree.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Legendary30 View Post
              If your love for one player is greater than the rest of the team, then you aren't a true fan. Like all the people who like the Lakers because of Kobe. If the Broncos trade 1 player and you abandon ship before you see if the trade works out, then we dont want your bandwagon fanhood anyway.

              See that's what is funny. A bandwagon fan is not a fan of a 8-8 team. I think most would tell you that this isn't a case of being a Cutler fan and being disgusted with how the organization is treating a player. This is about an organization that is running an operation in a Bush League manner. At this point the Oakland Raiders are running a much better organization. The Kansas City Chiefs with Pioli are running much smoother. They have upgraded their team in a much better way when compared to the Broncos thus far. If you are willing to argue that point then you are wearing your Orange Colored glasses and aren't willing to see things clearly. The Broncos tried to give a first round pick and Cutler for Cassel. Too little to late the Chefs ended up getting him (AND VRABEL!) for a 2nd! No Cutler. No first round pick. And a very instinctive 3-4 LB to help them make their transition to the 3-4.

              This isn't about a player its about an organization that for the past two decades players were willing to accept a little less to play for the Denver Broncos. They had coaches that were willing to take care of the players and the organization as a whole was considered top notch. Right now, the new regime is trying to instill a philosophy of "Do what I say and don't ask questions". BB was successful with it and McDaniels will likely be successful with it as well. The timing just isn't right. We weren't in the same boat as the Detroit Lions or Kansas City Chiefs. We weren't on the bottom with only one direction to go. We needed to fix the defense and improve a few things on offense. What we're considering now is a complete rebuild of both. We're going to completely overhaul this team b/c a 32 year old coach wants to have control. I'm not a fan of that b/c I know that control freaks and micro-managers rarely are successful. Look no further than Tom Caughlin. He had to change (admittedly) before he was able to take his team to a championship. Right now you have a rookie HC that knows only one way. And that one way needs somebody above him that is ready to intervene and cover his ass when he tries to do something stupid. I think McD is a hell of a X's and O's coach. I think he'll be a wonderful HC. But when you allow him to make big decisions that can affect a franchise for years to come, you're putting your eggs into a very fragile basket. Give me somebody at the top that has been around the pro game long enough to know what will fly and what won't, preferably someone that understands sports in the midwest.
              Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome.
              Samuel Johnson

              Comment


              • One of the most serious challenges I think still lies ahead is that both Cutler and Junior are young guys who lack maturity. They have been, can and will both be stubborn. A classic real life demonstration of the metaphor; cut off your nose despite your face. McDaniels HAS to demonstrate that he's in charge, and Cutler wants management acknowledgment of his importance to the team and assurances he has a future here.

                It is about trust right now, but in the not too distant future it will be about winning and losing and neither man can accomplish that without full scale cooperation from the other.

                Ultimately, the two will come to some kind of working agreement I suppose, but what I think Woody paige is trying to communicate is that success of this fanchise will depend on the two of them actively engaging each other in a way that makes each of them better, and they just cannot do that without open and trusting communication.

                McDaniels cannot guarantee he won't ever consider a Hershel Walker-type trade offer, and Cutler can't fear for his job if he throws a pick. The loggerhead is trust, and that will have to be earned, both ways, all over again.

                All the rest is media fodder.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jhns View Post
                  I'm saying the deal may have never moved along enough that Bowlen needed to know. I don't think the deal was even close to happening. I can guarantee you that McDaniels is now in hot water though. The fact that this got out and is causing exactly what is happening to happen, is enough for them to be in how water now.

                  The deal moved very far along. There were multiple teams offering a deal that included Cassel. You think the Broncos were just sitting back when all of this happened? I guarantee you the Broncos (or at least McDaniels) showed or expressed some interest ahead of time. It is puzzling b/c I think McDaniels has the ability to mold Cutler into an All-Pro QB. If Mike Shanahan can take Jake Plummer and mold him into a good game manager that was able to take what was there then I have faith that Cutler can become the same thing. He likes to improvise and take things that aren't there... that can be coached out of him if McDaniels is up to the challenge.
                  Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome.
                  Samuel Johnson

                  Comment


                  • I do not support the trade of Cutler, just the managements right to trade him if they feel that is the best course of action.

                    Everyone just should wait until we see the product on the field...I know it is hard to do, but nevertheless...

                    R Ayers - B Cofield - A Haynesworth - CJ ohnson
                    J Anderson - J Beason - DJ Williams
                    R Bailey - P Amukamara - R Hill - A Goodman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BroncosRule23 View Post
                      Let's start with that...everyone really needs to calm down.

                      A lot of stuff has happened over the last couple of days...and I know everyone wants to believe everything they hear so they're up to date on the latest...but really, this is getting out of hand.

                      ***Also, regardless of all the reports out there...we don't know what happened. We probably never will. All we know is that at some point, Jay's name was brought up in trade talks, but nothing ever happened of it...that's it. I will never believe anything Mort says, so that gets rid of all ESPN rumors, I think Lomardi at CBS is just trying to stir the pot...and Peter King only cares bragging to us about how he got his free cup of coffee that day as well as keeping up up to date about his latest colonoscopy...not actual facts***

                      On to the facts...

                      1. It is completely understandable that a brand new coach would want to bring in his former QB to run his offense. It would bring him comfort in his first year on the job...he knows what he would be getting on the field...and he's already developed that relationship. However, I strongly believe that Cassel is a product of the offense and while he can be a good game-managing QB...he will never have the skill set or potential that Cutler has. In McD's offense, Cutler can (and hopefully will) be explosive and dominant. And with that being said...

                      2. No one player is bigger than the franchise. As much as I love Cutler...he has to realize he's only been in the league three years, two as a starter, and by no means is he in the same class as Brady or Manning. If it turns out to be true that he did indeed ask to be traded after we let Bates walk...and now he's using this whole situation to further increase his chances of being traded since he's "victim" in all this...good riddance. It was nice having you but the Broncos were here long before you came along...and they will be here long after you retire. All the people on here saying "if Jay goes I go" and all that other nonsense can go ahead and leave with him if it comes down to that.

                      3. Cutler needs to show more maturity. When all the news broke of him potentially being part of a deal, the first quote I saw from him was very mature. However, he has since moved on to these gems: "I'll always play with the guys we've got. I love playing for those guys. Obviously, Josh and I's relationship has taken a few steps backward. I don't play for the coaches anyway; I play for teammates. As long as we keep the guys we've got, I'll go out there and play. I love those guys." And: "I'm upset. I mean I'm really shocked at this point," he said. "I could see why they want Cassel. I don't know if they think I can't run the system or I don't have the skills for it. I just don't get it. Or if they don't think they can sign me with my next contract. I just don't know what it is. I've heard I'm still on the trading block." Saying you don't play for the coaches is ridiculous. But then going on to say he's already thinking about his next contract...come on. Apparently "Bus" Cook has Jay's ear more than any of us thought. He needs to worry about playing well the next year or two before worrying about his contract, otherwise there wouldn't even be a next contract! Finally (again, if it's true), refusing to sit down with the front office? What good is that going to do? That's only going to drag this out more...

                      4. Everyone just let this Cutler Saga play out and enjoy the change our team is going through. I understand that it's clearly the most pressing issue for us right now, but outside of that I think we have had the best possible free agency as we could so far. We can deal with the Cutler stuff when it's at a clear conclusion, but for now, get excited about us actually fielding an NFL defense!
                      - Dawkins: Incredible. So much passion for the game and his teammates. I can't begin to describe how big of a lift this brings to the entire team. Don't forget that he suplexes people...
                      - Gaffney: Great role player. Knows the offense. Unselfish.
                      - Buckhalter: All the ability in the world...just never had the chance to show it sitting behind Westbrook and injuries. Look up his high school stats. They. Are. Nuts.
                      - Hill: Good starter who will be consistent. Already has good chemistry with Goodman.
                      - Goodman: Had the best year of his career last season. Not the flashy signing but will be consistent and more importantly, will not be a liability.
                      - Reid: Special teams ace, which is just weird to say for a DT. That hit he put on Chris Henry on MNF still makes me cringe to watch.

                      So...I now give you clips of what I'm excited to see happening for the Broncos this upcoming season:

                      Brian Dawkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe5B8W8ZyR4
                      (I could watch this on loop all day long and never get tired of it)

                      The Brian Dawkins Suplex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cZQNRW6WSA

                      Dawkins Speech After Winning The NFC Championship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLSrF81Q8rM

                      Darrell Reid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJmsCsb9hUA

                      Everyone keep positive and stop overreacting! It will all be for the better! Let's look forward to the draft and training camp!

                      Edit: While I was writing up this whole thing someone felt the need to put up a poll asking if we should go after Michael Vick. Really? You think that's a good solution?


                      Great, sobering post. CP to you.

                      :thumb:
                      sigpic
                      They're your teammates, now.
                      Best of luck, TT!
                      ...Always a class act - in any uniform.



                      sbutk: i can see why Denver is taking TO's right now [trailing by 7, with 30 seconds left in the half]. but why Oakland???

                      Captain Lori: You are trying to figure out the Raiders. Try figuring out women instead; it's probably much easier.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MindField View Post
                        Any team that allows the tail to wag the dog is doomed to failure anyway.

                        Jay Cutler does not have the emotional maturity of a championship QB, period.

                        He is petty and manipulative.

                        F him.

                        He did not get his way with the coaching change, so he sabotaged it. He wanted out when Bates was not retained, so he basically has put McDaniels in this position.

                        The Cutler supporters, that cannot fathom the franchise without him at QB, are gutless fools that think a petulant player should rule the franchise.

                        Pathetic.

                        You don't even have your facts straight.

                        This is Jay Cutler's creation, not Josh McDaniels. Cutler made it clear he was not happy with the coaching changes...what exactly would you think if you were Josh McDaniels?

                        If your McDaniels, and you got the same resistance from Jay Cutler, I think it is probable that you would conclude you could not work with this self-absorbed moron either.

                        Get a clue people, this is all, 1000 percent Jay Cutler's doing.
                        This is really hard for me to say, because it RARELY happens, but...........

                        MindField I agree with you 100%

                        whew there it is i got it out.........

                        The tail doesn't wag the dog, McDaniels might not pan out, but then again he may be the next bill parcels, and you can't see this type of behavior being tollerated with his system.

                        Cutler is good, and i agree with cougal to the point that this might spell ultimate doom for McDaniels if it blows up, but J looks like a brat, and how many teams in the playoffs last year had statisticly worse QB's than cutler..........oh 6. The QB is an important part, but not worth laying over and acting like Wade Phillips. It is a TEAM sport, and ever increasingly looking like J Cutler is acting like a me first brat who wants to take his ball and go home. Not much of a TEAM mentality, and maybe that is why he makes poor disions, throws interceptions, doesn't study defences, because then again he is god.

                        J can only help himself out by Growing up, showing character, and becomming a leader.


                        "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.” ~ Abe Lincoln

                        and

                        "When written in Chinese the word "crisis" is composed of two characters - one represents danger and the other represents opportunity. ~John F. Kennedy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          Actually, we would have lost Cutler AND our first-rounder.



                          Well, I sort of disagree.

                          He's the head coach. He's been empowered by the owner to make certain decisions - tough decisions, as Mike Shanahan would say. If he comes in and decides 'this isn't going to work', that's his right.

                          HOWEVER...where I have a problem with everything is the fact that he lied to Jay about wanting to develop a good relationship founded on great communication, and then proceeded to lie to the media and fans about wanting to trade Jay, and now is keeping his silence when he got caught in his lie. Thus far, McDaniels has shown me zero integrity, which is important for a head coach.



                          I can agree with that. No one with any type of talent evaluating skills believes for a second that Cassel is a better, more talented quarterback than Cutler. This is a situation in which a coach believes his scheme supercedes talent, and I have a big problem with that.



                          I more or less agree.

                          Man you cant PROVE that.

                          I'm sorry, if its true, I agree with you. If McDaniels never wanted Cuter in the first place, then he should of been upfront about it.

                          But how do you KNOW that McDaniels did not come to Denver with all the excitement and every intention of making if work with Cutler just to be met with resistance and a poor arrogant attitude?

                          You don't KNOW how the meeting between these two have gone OR what McDaniels has determined breaking down all the film with his coaching staff and applying it to his system.

                          Maybe McDaniels heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING impressive or complimentary about Cutler at the pro-bowl from any of those coaches....

                          Jay Cutler COULD have been nothing but pushy and unaccommodating to McDaneils to the point where when he heard Cassell was available he just said screw it.

                          But that wouldn't NECESSARILY mean that he lied about Cutler.

                          OF course...he pretty much lied when he said we never tried to trade Cutler...but that's different.
                          sigpic

                          And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

                          Comment


                          • As long as McHoodie keeps "The Hammer" and Dawkins plays a couple years I'm happy as a lark whether Cutler/Marshall is here or not. I mean I suffered through mediocrity since Elway retired so whats a few more years?......

                            Although I would love "Snake" to make a return. He was the only QB to win a playoff game for Denver since Elway retired and he got the train ran on him out the door....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pacohlgs78 View Post
                              I don't think its about people hating him... It's about him not realizing that he is damn lucky to have a career in something he loves... When a lot of people in this country just wish for a career. Jay love you!!!! make us that support the Broncos and you proud :cutler:
                              And a lot of people all over the world just wish they could have clean water, Something bums in this country have.

                              So I don't want to hear how he doesn't have the right to complain because he's a QB in the NFL. We manage to complain even tho we live 1000X better then people 500 years ago.

                              He got stabbed in the back, Almost lost a great opportunity with a team he loves, and by a new HC that has proved NOTHING. All to bring in someone that made a team that was one of the best EVER look average.
                              Last edited by SlyBronco; 03-03-2009, 08:37 AM.


                              :salute!: !!Get well soon!!:salute!:

                              Comment


                              • What Does the Broncos' Radio Silence Mean?

                                I'm all for giving McDaniels a chance; I was reasonably happy when he got hired and I've basically taken a "wait-and-see" approach to this whole offseason so far. I really like most of the personnel moves that the new coach and GM have made so far, and I've been getting really excited for the upcoming season. But I'm concerned that the ongoing silence from the guys running our team is not a good sign at all.

                                Even when these trade rumors started swirling around about Cutler, I advocated patience; we still don't know all of the facts of what really happened, and I have been willing to give both sides a chance to clear the air.

                                But the longer this goes on with no statement at all from McDaniels, Xanders or Bowlen, the more indefensible I think it becomes. Either they tried to trade Jay or they didn't. If they tried, it was stupid and unjustifiable to do so. I don't care what you're getting in return; there is no possible way you can convince me that Cassel is a better quarterback than Jay Cutler at this point. If they didn't try the trade, they need to explain what happened and put the rumors and what we've heard in context, because so much information got leaked that simply denying that they tried to trade Jay seems incredible right now. They need to convince people of their story. The fact that they haven't done so yet makes me think they did try the trade, which again was idiotic.

                                I'm also becoming concerned that McDaniels is planning to turn our team into Patriots 2, which I would hate. Sure, it's the system he knows, but what I've been hoping is that he will blend his style with the identity of the Denver franchise, not just make us a carbon copy of the team from Foxboro. I don't really want to see us run the EXACT same offense that New England has, for several reasons--1: it's boring; 2: doing so would seem to jettison all of Denver's history and identity as its own franchise; and 3; New England will always run that system better than we will, so our chances of ever beating them in the playoffs would be low. Trading Jay for Cassel would have been a big step in making us "Pats Lite" at the cost of an overall downgrade at QB. And I think the silence from the front office, combined with the apparently underhanded way they've handled all of this (e.g. McDaniels denying that they ever tried the trade when other evidence we've heard strongly suggests that at least SOMETHING happened), makes me nervous that we're turning into New England both on the field and off.

                                I love the Broncos, and have for almost 25 years. I've invested my heart and soul in this team during football season for several decades. But I don't think I could bring myself to root for a team that pulls shady stuff like the Pats do. If McDaniels really turns us into the Patriots 2, while destroying the Broncos "identity" we've come to know, love, and be proud of, my conscience might require me to consider severing my ties as a fan with the Denver Broncos. Doing so would break my heart, but I couldn't stand being a fan of one of "those" teams.

                                Also, if McDaniels wears a hoodie with the sleeves cut off on the sidelines, all bets are off and I'm outta here.

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