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  • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    How else do you think three-way trades work, silk?

    Team A wants something from Team B, but Team B only wants something from Team C.
    I find it "illogical" that NE said "naw, we don't want a top 15 pick. We would much rather have the #34 pick".

    Also, it a 3 way trade, team A usually waits to hear whats going on between team B and team C before they make a move, for a lower pick noneoftheless....

    BTW, Matt Cassel, picks #1, and #20 for Jay Cutler. I'd do that in a second. There's probably 2 QB's in the NFl you wouldn't make that trade for, and that's it. But that's an entirely different argument.

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    • Originally posted by Mumbly_Joe View Post
      Fair enough, here's my take on the this whole thing

      When people describe Cutler, even people on this forum, they say "cannon for an arm!" "makes all the throws!" "accurate on the run!"
      I do not hear "makes great decisions" ect...
      Now I know the arguments "the defense sucks and the offense needs to score x+ points every game"
      and maybe he does, I don't catch a lot of games, but I can tell you this

      So here's my logic, Matt Cassel did a pretty good job of demonstrating decision making

      He checked down, didn't make a lot of risky throws, ect...

      Talent wise Cutler is superior

      But for decision making, that might actually go to cassel, and sometime that's all your looking for
      (See, Chad Pennington vs. JaMarcus Russel debate)

      Any way, hope it all works out for you so we can take pride in kicking your asses

      -Mumbly
      I am surprised that it's Cutler's arm that gets a lot of attention and not his intelligence, which he possesses quite a bit of.

      My guess is that Cutler's intelligence and decision-making abilities suffer from comparison to his immense natural talent. A classic case in point was our game against TB last season, when we were coming off a four-turnover loss (two fumbles by the WRs and two picks by Cutler) and TB was a turnover-generating machine on defense. Shanahan shelved the high-octane offense for that one game for more of a ball-control offense. Cutler ran it with zero interceptions and ease bordering on boredom. Our defense played lights out that day (the caveat being of course that the Bucs offense was pathetic). Cutler played precisely the kind of game that has gotten Big Ben all his fame and he did it with ease.

      Jay Cutler can play a game-manager's role, but a game-manager like Pennington or Collins can't put the team on his back like a Cutler can. Maybe that's why his talent gets such a lot of attention.
      Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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      • Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
        Step 1. "there is no 100% PROOF.....
        There is never 100% proof of anything. Thats why people just have to use their heads and form their own opinions and judgements based on the facts that ARE given. You've formed yours.. we've formed ours. But you can't say we are "wrong" because we dont' have an eyewitness and because Josh is 'saying' so. That would be trying to say coaches never lie. Where did McDaniels come from again??

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        • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
          As ravage pointed out, there is no 100% proof that Osama bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it.

          If what you're looking for is 100% proof, you'll never get it. You don't have 100% proof that McDaniels is telling the truth, either, especially since Cutler has publicly called him out, thus creating reasonable doubt.

          If you choose to side with McDaniels, you choose to do so for the same reasons why I believe and side with Cutler.
          Well then, at least we can all agree that some people need to be a little bit more careful with wording when they are throwing out, "he's a liar", on both sides of the argument.

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          • Originally posted by CodyRoark View Post
            I think everyone should put 'YOU KNOW' in their sigs!
            Anyone gonna hop on the wagon with me?

            YOU KNOW!

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            • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
              There is never 100% proof of anything. Thats why people just have to use their heads and form their own opinions and judgements based on the facts that ARE given. You've formed yours.. we've formed ours. But you can't say we are "wrong" because we dont' have an eyewitness and because Josh is 'saying' so. That would be trying to say coaches never lie. Where did McDaniels come from again??
              I'm not saying "you're wrong" anymore than you guys are calling us "idiots" for not believing that McDaniels lied.

              The only thing "illogical", is how the trade went down.

              "No thanks to your top 15 pick. We would much rather have the #34 pick instead!"

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              • There is no reason to have to choose between being a fan of the team vs. being a fan of Jay's. Most everyone on this board would be a fan of the team. It actually seems to be the ones that have issues with Jay Cutler that want to create the wedge.

                I’m a fan of the Broncos. As such, I understand the importance of a franchise caliber QB. No matter what some people seem to believe, it is not at all easy to find a great QB. Think about the draft just 2 years ago. Brady Quinn dropped in part because teams were happy with their QB situation. How many teams – just 2 years later – are desperate for a QB? How many sure fire QBs have not panned out? Lienert, Young, Smith, Russell (at least so far), etc. How long was it between Elway and Cutler? Simms and Manning? Aikman and Romo? Marino and … well, they still have no answer. Kelly and … well, same as Miami. You get the idea. Get rid of Jay and how long will it be before the next great QB is a Bronco (and Cassel has yet to prove he is more than a 1 year wonder)?

                The point is, I think many of us are Bronco fans that understand the value of a QB like Jay and what it means to the team and team's future. Jay Cutler is in the Broncos’ best interests. Simple as that.

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                • Originally posted by CodyRoark View Post
                  Anyone gonna hop on the wagon with me?

                  YOU KNOW!

                  Come on there's gotta be somebody! YOU KNOW!

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                  • Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                    Well then, at least we can all agree that some people need to be a little bit more careful with wording when they are throwing out, "he's a liar", on both sides of the argument.
                    IMO, McDaniels is a liar. That's my interpretation. There's simply too much evidence against his side of the story.

                    I'm entitled to make that opinion, just as you're entitled to believe him.

                    I'm not necessarily keen on Jay's antics - I've been vocal about them. But one thing I will say is that the guy is honest from what I've seen - almost brutally honest. I see no reason why he would be so convinced that the Broncos tried to trade him and risk him looking like a fool if he didn't know for sure that the Broncos actually attempted to trade him.
                    sigpic

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                    • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                      There is never 100% proof of anything. Thats why people just have to use their heads and form their own opinions and judgements based on the facts that ARE given. You've formed yours.. we've formed ours. But you can't say we are "wrong" because we dont' have an eyewitness and because Josh is 'saying' so. That would be trying to say coaches never lie. Where did McDaniels come from again??
                      Unless you want to get all existential that's a crazy thing to say.

                      Note that im not trying to comment on your opinions on the Cutler situation..but seriously, tons of stuff can be proved.
                      sigpic

                      And THAT'S, the Cosmic Perspective.

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                      • Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
                        HEY.. .. here is something. HAVE and opinion, and realize that others will have opposing opinions. YOUR opinion is that McDaniels could actually be telling the truth on this.. MY opinion is that he's not. Why would I attempt to believe in something I don't simply because YOU Deem that Id on't have proof, when I believe that I VERY MUCH have enough proof too form MY OPININ... Period.

                        Get it throug YOUR egotistical head, that I dont' have to change my opinion because you think you are so wise. The facts, to me, are obvious. To you, you would rather "stay neutral" because it gives you a sense that the coach isn't lying to your face. To me, I've accepted that he has.

                        That has NOTHING to do with 'ego' .. that has everything to do with having my OWN mind with enough intelligence to form my own thoughts with the facts (that I feel are more than enough) that I have been presented with. If they aren't enough for you.. FINE. You've made it clear. So you can take your 'ego' .. and check it. Your insults to bait me into your crap, doesn't interest me.
                        Did I ever ask you to change you opinion? No...
                        Did I ever say that McDaniels is 100% correct? No...

                        Did I simply admit that I DONT KNOW what happend and quite frankly don't care until someone involved comes out and tells us the exact details? YES...

                        Your opinion, is your opinion, but if you claim it to be knowledge then you are incorrect because it does not meet the standard qualifications of knowledge.

                        If you want my opinion on the matter, I think the bucs and lions came a calling and McDaniels seriously considered their offers BUT they fell through because the chiefs, not that he turned them down. So my opinion actually is that I do not side with either McDaniels or Cutler, I think they both ahndled this poorly. Thanks for asking my opinion, however I claim that what I just stated is not in any way shape or form knowledge because I dont know what happend.

                        Why is it so hard for you to admit you don't truly know after your opinion? Thats called an ego, if I had tried to change your opinion then I'd be wrong because everyone is entitled to their opinion.
                        Being a Bronco fan is more important than being a fan of any coach or player in particular.

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                        • Originally posted by CodyRoark View Post
                          I think everyone should put 'YOU KNOW' in their sigs!
                          Seriously someone needs to hop on the wagon with me and do this!

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                          • Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                            I'm not saying "you're wrong" anymore than you guys are calling us "idiots" for not believing that McDaniels lied.

                            The only thing "illogical", is how the trade went down.

                            "No thanks to your top 15 pick. We would much rather have the #34 pick instead!"
                            well.. there have been several reasons how that happened.... one being that the deal with KC was already made bfore the 15th pick was officially offered. Others are speculating that the deal between Piolli and Belicheck was already a done deal.... hence how they got both Cassel and Vrabel for just a seond round pick (I mean we can look at that alone and scratch our heads).

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                            • Graham showed some tapes with his blocks and asked "do you want this happening to you"?
                              sigpic

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                              • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                                *Sigh*

                                If McDaniels is still sticking to this story, then I've lost all respect for him. I don't understand why he just won't admit he seriously considered trading Jay for Matt Cassel. It's been confirmed by numerous sources.

                                This 'just answered the phone and listened' garbage is just that. Liars - especially public figures - just really bother me, to be perfectly honest.
                                Well, one thing nobody here has discussed is the other side of the coin...
                                Let me play devil's advocate here for a second...
                                For as much as it's hard to believe that McD did not initiate the trade talks for Cutler, he could have in my opinion been made a target; somebody very smart thought that by offering Cassel to Denver that McD would take the bait because of his ties with Cassel and New England
                                This was such a no-brainer that whoever came up with this idea thought he could pull it off, but it backfired, no deal was made.
                                Now everybody is like..."yeah, that makes sense, McD was definitely going to trade Cutler for Cassel, he knows the system yadah, yadah, yadah..."

                                The reason why I think this is how it may have happened, is because Bowlen has been quiet. Bowlen would've veto that trade. If anything, McD would've at least ran that one by Bowlen for approval, given how tempted the trade proposal was, essentially that would've given Denver 3 first round picks...
                                In the end, would you blame McD for not entertaining that deal?
                                sigpic
                                I've started with almost nothing and still got most of it

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