McD / Cutler mess (Merged)

[japfaff]

Brady and Manning are above everyone... and I don't think McNabb nor Roth gets the respect they deserve. But even if you put Cutler at the level below these guys... he's still top tier.

Ben threw something like 15 TDs and 17 Ints last season. Can you imagine what OUR record would be if our QB had stats like this?? Its MUCH MUCH easier to look REALLY good when you have a defense that is CRUSHING opponents. I don't want to take ANYTHING away from Roth, but that fact still holds true.

Some people were RAVING over Flacco... first rookie to win playoff games..blah blah. But he completed 11 of 22 and 1 TD in a playoff win. What would be the score if Cutler completed only 50% of his passes and only 1 TD pass in the playoffs???? We would be CRUSHED!!! Flacco hasn't shown me anything, personally, and expect him to come back down to earth in a hurry.

Matt Ryan has had ONE year.... and if he continues playing as he did last year, then he's an aberation rather than a rule. People say he's playing like a seasoned vet, because he isn't playing like a young starter. Jay is a young starter. That doesn't mean he's not EXCELLING at where he is, because he IS excelling at where he is... absolutely is.

Rivers and Brees are both coming into their own. Rivers after his fifth season in the NFL showed to be a prime-time player. Brees has been good, but NOTHING to the level he was this last season.. his 8th year in the NFL? How is it that everyone expects our 3rd year QB to have the same veteran savvy that 6-8 year QBs do, when these VERY same vets.. didn't have it when THEY were in their third year??? Brees especially.

But I would take Cutler over Eli and ESPECIALLY Palmer any day of the week.... ANY day of the week EASY. Eli didn't come into his own until the very end of his 4th season in the NFL. Until then, everyone was questioning his toughness, his leadership and his flat out ability to lead a team. His defense carries them through the playoffs, Eli makes a GREAT play in the SB, and boom.

I very much find Cutler to be in the likes of Brees, Eli, and Rivers. These guys have one thing over Cutler and thats experience. Cutler is ahead of the curve on all three of these QBs.

To me an Elite QB is top 5..... Brady, Manning, Ben there is not an arguement that you can make about any of these guys being behind Jay..

McNabb... 5 NFC Championship games
Warner... 2MVP's, and 3 SB
Brees... 5000+ yards passing 2 Div titles and a Championship berth
Eli.... Playoff's four straight years and a SB title
Rivers.. Three years starting...3 Div titles, 3 playoff wins

Now please tell me out of these four who is Jay better than? These are hands down the top 8 QB's in this league

HassleBack, Bulger, Palmer, Romo, Delhome, and Ryan That is the group that I put Jay in.

I agree with you that I liken Jay to Brees... Mostly all stats. But the light went on for Drew, and has yet to go on for Jay

[Ravage!!!]

To me an Elite QB is top 5..... Brady, Manning, Ben there is not an arguement that you can make about any of these guys being behind Jay..

McNabb... 5 NFC Championship games
Warner... 2MVP's, and 3 SB
Brees... 5000+ yards passing 2 Div titles and a Championship berth
Eli.... Playoff's four straight years and a SB title
Rivers.. Three years starting...3 Div titles, 3 playoff wins

Now please tell me out of these four who is Jay better than? These are hands down the top 8 QB's in this league

HassleBack, Bulger, Palmer, Romo, Delhome, and Ryan That is the group that I put Jay in.

I agree with you that I liken Jay to Brees... Mostly all stats. But the light went on for Drew, and has yet to go on for Jay

You are looking at the team stats to determine HIS individual play, and I'm not. ELI most certainly did NOT carry that team to the playoffs, and MOST people (before the end of '07 season) said Eli was the reason they didn't go further.

You want to bring up Drew Brees' BEST season stats after having an 8 year career compared to Jay's three. Yet you IGNORE that Brees only led his Saints to an 8-8 record last year??? Isn't that the same as Jay's?? Why do you seem to ignore that fact? How is it that Brees continues to have worse records in NO, yet you don't hold that against him the same way you hold Jay's record against him????

I guess I'm just sick of people trying to determine INDIVIDUAL play based on the TEAM records and stats, and that just flat out doesn't make sense if you are talking about INDIVIDUAL play. Because we are ALLLLL smart enough to see that who you play for/with, makes ALLL the difference. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't see QBs like Bradshaw win 4 SBs and Marino win none. You wouldn't see guys like Brad Johnson have a SB ring on his finger, yet guys like Fouts go with none.

You can't tell me that Ben Rothlesburger is NOT benifitting from that MASSIVE defense he has played with. You can't tell me that INDIVIDUAL play isn't considered when talking about INDIVIDUAL players. Because if we are changing the topic to who has the best team.. yes... Pittsburgh, Giants, Philly, and SD have had better TEAMS than the Broncos have the last 10 years.

This is the same discussion that people still have about Elway and Montana. Many people believe that if you put Elway on Montana's team, they would have won 8 SuperBowls. You put Montana on Denver's team, and they never go to one. You can't tell me that you believe Eli Manning or Drew Brees is a better QB than what Cutler is showing on the field.

I'm talking INDIVIDUAL play based on OUR QB and the number of years experience he has compared to the others you mentioned. Jay Cutler, in his third year, is BETTER than nearly every one of those QBs in their third year and better than most of them (individually) now..... thats elite.

[BarkdogRX7]

I wish more of these threads were out there, I just wish more people also understood that this is a BUSINESS, you think Pat wanted to fire Shanny...no, if you can do something to make your business a little better, you have to look at it. It didnt happen, Cutler should show us all why he shouldnt be traded. Right now he's crying and pouting and showing us why he SHOULD be traded...time to grow up a little :cutler:

[killacal]

i agree with everything mel kiper said except that cassel is an upgrade. yeah who cares that they wanted to trade you if they did, just shut up and play. don't get me wrong i really like cutler as our qb but he is not the savior of the world though. look at eli manning they were going to get rid of him if they wouldn't have done anything in the playoffs the year they won, they just so happened to win it all and they gave him a extension. jay still has a lot to prove

[Rampagе]

stfu is filtered? That's weird

Either way, I'm confident it's something they can get past. It wasn't like McD was interested in just any body, he was interested in someone who was HIS GUY, and now hopefully Jay and McD can build the same relationship. If they can move past this, hopefully we'll have a lot of nice winning seasons and hopefully a superbowl or 2 to look forward to before Jay retires.

[Denver-Sports614]

Cutler will go down as a G.O.A.T.

Cutler is a great QB soon to be one of te greatest, i received my analogy on this by thinking who are the top 20 QB's of All-time? http://armchairgm.wikia.com/index.ph...the_Modern_Era

so i asked myself who can you compare jay cutler to?
eureka!!Brett Farve..
why brett farve you say..well brett was throwin into the starting position, late in atl, lost both of the games he started..went to the packers the next year and went 4-12,9-7,9-7, then 11-5
his first 3-years in the nfl not count his stay with falcons the record is 22-26
after the coaching change in 1995 farve went 11-5 with a new offensive cood who was already head coach mike holmgren..

cutlers record is 9-7(7-4)(2-3)as a starter,7-9 then 8-8 which makes his record as a QB 24-24..now is where he has to match brett farves 11-5..now can he yes..will he is all he has to do..:go:
Jay
G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
37 1220 762 62.5 33.0 9024 7.4 243.9 54 4.4 37 3.0 93 106 16 51 307 87.1

Brett
G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate
47 1575 983 62.4 33.4 10412 6.3 221.3 70 4.3 51 3.2 76T 111 18 95 595 82.7

these are there passer rating through 3 seasons including Jay cutlers 5 games as a starter..
i would say cutlers number are better seeing that he has 10 less games, i think there numbers are going to be eye to eye in about 5 years, i also think he will accomplish more in his career, this is just saying why trade him for Matt Casell, Matt Cassell is the next Gus Furotte, to compare him to Dontae Culpepper is wrong, Tae had Randy in Oakland, not as effective, no supporting offense nor good line either..NE Ways

JAY CUTLER= Brett Farve

[SuperBolts08']

I see Kiper as someone who is going through a mid life crisis right now, and the reason for his response is to get attention before this years draft. His days are numbered with McShay there, but we all know that Mayock has overtaken both of them.

Of course, because anyone who doesn't bow down to the "greatness of Cutler" must be senile or insane right?

After all, he is 17-20 as a starter, with a passer rating just above 86....HOF'r! I think so!

[japfaff]

You are looking at the team stats to determine HIS individual play, and I'm not. ELI most certainly did NOT carry that team to the playoffs, and MOST people (before the end of '07 season) said Eli was the reason they didn't go further.

You want to bring up Drew Brees' BEST season stats after having an 8 year career compared to Jay's three. Yet you IGNORE that Brees only led his Saints to an 8-8 record last year??? Isn't that the same as Jay's?? Why do you seem to ignore that fact? How is it that Brees continues to have worse records in NO, yet you don't hold that against him the same way you hold Jay's record against him????

I guess I'm just sick of people trying to determine INDIVIDUAL play based on the TEAM records and stats, and that just flat out doesn't make sense if you are talking about INDIVIDUAL play. Because we are ALLLLL smart enough to see that who you play for/with, makes ALLL the difference. If that weren't the case, you wouldn't see QBs like Bradshaw win 4 SBs and Marino win none. You wouldn't see guys like Brad Johnson have a SB ring on his finger, yet guys like Fouts go with none.

You can't tell me that Ben Rothlesburger is NOT benifitting from that MASSIVE defense he has played with. You can't tell me that INDIVIDUAL play isn't considered when talking about INDIVIDUAL players. Because if we are changing the topic to who has the best team.. yes... Pittsburgh, Giants, Philly, and SD have had better TEAMS than the Broncos have the last 10 years.

This is the same discussion that people still have about Elway and Montana. Many people believe that if you put Elway on Montana's team, they would have won 8 SuperBowls. You put Montana on Denver's team, and they never go to one. You can't tell me that you believe Eli Manning or Drew Brees is a better QB than what Cutler is showing on the field.

I'm talking INDIVIDUAL play based on OUR QB and the number of years experience he has compared to the others you mentioned. Jay Cutler, in his third year, is BETTER than nearly every one of those QBs in their third year and better than most of them (individually) now..... thats elite.

I gotta start with Ben... Yes he benifits from having a great D. But the show that he put on in the SB was something for the ages. I would go so far as to say that I have never seen another QB that could have won that game. The way that he bounced off constant presure, aviod the rush and hit his reciever downfield. No other QB ever could have pulled that game off.


I will tell you whole heartedly that Eli and Drew are better QB's right now than Jay is. In any offense in any weather on anyday.

You like to bring up experience a lot... But it is irrelevent... We are talking about who is the best QB March 8, 2009..not who is going to be the best QB 5 years from now. But today jay is on the fringe of the top 10.
As for not holding Drew to the same lvls that I hold Jay to... two reasons... one he passed for 5000 yards, and his stats were better accross the board from Jays. 2) Cause I could give two ****s about Drew brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady, or Big Ben.. I only care about Jay's w/l record. I expect more out of him just because he is the starting Qb of the team that I have rooted for since the mid 70's. I hold every man that wears the uni to the same standards. I expect them to act the way that I would want my kids to act. I dont want them to piss and moan in the media cause they are butt hurt. Right or wrong I expect the best from Jay cause I think that he has it in him, and two cause he is the QB of the greatest team in NFL history....Earn that, then he earns my respect

[Ravage!!!]

I will tell you whole heartedly that Eli and Drew are better QB's right now than Jay is. In any offense in any weather on anyday.

You like to bring up experience a lot... But it is irrelevent... We are talking about who is the best QB March 8, 2009..not who is going to be the best QB 5 years from now. But today jay is on the fringe of the top 10.
As for not holding Drew to the same lvls that I hold Jay to... two reasons... one he passed for 5000 yards, and his stats were better accross the board from Jays. 2) Cause I could give two ****s about Drew brees, Peyton manning, Tom Brady, or Big Ben.. I only care about Jay's w/l record. I expect more out of him just because he is the starting Qb of the team that I have rooted for since the mid 70's. I hold every man that wears the uni to the same standards. I expect them to act the way that I would want my kids to act. I dont want them to piss and moan in the media cause they are butt hurt. Right or wrong I expect the best from Jay cause I think that he has it in him, and two cause he is the QB of the greatest team in NFL history....Earn that, then he earns my respect

No.. you can YOU believe Drew and Eli to be better. I don't. I don't see ANYTHING in Drew's or Eli's game that I don't see in Cutler's. I see more patience from Cutler than both of them.

The rest. Well the rest just tells me that you aren't looking through the same set of glasses for all considered. That means you hold unfair biases against Jay based on who he plays for, and nothing to do with his actual play. So you justify your bias because of your team loyalty... none of which has ANYTHING to do with the actual play on the field.

A QB can play great and still lose. That doesn't mean he didn't play great, and doesn't mean his individual play should be ignored based on the loss. Thats what you are doing when you simply look at that one column on the stat sheet,and thats a shame no matter who you are talking about. Its a waste.

I guess to you... Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien and Doug Williams are all better QBs than Dan Marino.... based on the one Column.

[Gbt31]

i agree with everything mel kiper said except that cassel is an upgrade. yeah who cares that they wanted to trade you if they did, just shut up and play. don't get me wrong i really like cutler as our qb but he is not the savior of the world though. look at eli manning they were going to get rid of him if they wouldn't have done anything in the playoffs the year they won, they just so happened to win it all and they gave him a extension. jay still has a lot to prove

Cassl is an upgrade over Cutler....in McDaniels system. And well, it is McDaniels team now. McDaniels knows he has to live with Cutler now, and if you ask the other 31 Head Coaches in the NFL they will tell you thats not such a bad thing. I really hope both of them can mend this situation.

If I was the radio broadcaster sitting with Mel, I would have told him he was overrated and I prefer Mayocks scouting to his...and just waited for him to start crying.

[Atwnbroncfan]

Cutler went 2-3 as a Rookie, and his record is 17-20. Not sure where u get your numbers from. And your thread titled is very misleading. But the Favre analogy is pretty good both aernt afraid to make any throw.

[RainyTX]

Of course, because anyone who doesn't bow down to the "greatness of Cutler" must be senile or insane right?

After all, he is 17-20 as a starter, with a passer rating just above 86....HOF'r! I think so!

Couldn't agree more man. Been a Bronco fan since the 88 season but you have to call them like you see them. If you can't be your teams biggest critic, then you're not being true to yourself or the game

[Gbt31]

Cutler went 2-3 as a Rookie, and his record is 17-20. Not sure where u get your numbers from. And your thread titled is very misleading. But the Favre analogy is pretty good both aernt afraid to make any throw.

Even though I don't agree with ATWN's opinion on Cutler....he is right on the record...we were 7-4 when Plummer got benched.

[japfaff]

No.. you can YOU believe Drew and Eli to be better. I don't. I don't see ANYTHING in Drew's or Eli's game that I don't see in Cutler's. I see more patience from Cutler than both of them.

The rest. Well the rest just tells me that you aren't looking through the same set of glasses for all considered. That means you hold unfair biases against Jay based on who he plays for, and nothing to do with his actual play. So you justify your bias because of your team loyalty... none of which has ANYTHING to do with the actual play on the field.

A QB can play great and still lose. That doesn't mean he didn't play great, and doesn't mean his individual play should be ignored based on the loss. Thats what you are doing when you simply look at that one column on the stat sheet,and thats a shame no matter who you are talking about. Its a waste.

I guess to you... Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien and Doug Williams are all better QBs than Dan Marino.... based on the one Column.

Pk so if wins and losses dont matter then why is that an official stat for QB's?

Eli is actually close, but I just see him as a bertter leader....
But Drew we can talk stats... 3 years with 4400 yards+, 4 of the last5 years 25+ TD's, 95 QB rating over the last 5 years, 65% + over the last 5 years..... All this without a RB to soften up the D.... Jay has always had a dominate running game.... (I am sure there is going to be some that scoff at this but in 2007 We avg 4.7 per carry and this year 4.8. That is getting it done in the running game no matter who is carrying the rock)

[TheMastermind]

what was his prediction for Vince Young and Matt Lienart?

and what are those two doing now?

..........this guy is a JOKE