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  • the numbers do add up

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    • This is great! I love that he referenced Jeff George in parallel to Jay, Jeff George was the ONLY NFL player that Kiper has judged accurately. In 1998, Kiper said that Ryan "crybaby" Leaf's attitude gave him an "advantage" in NFL over Peyton Manning. He also claimed that the Pats would go 0-16 in 2001...hmmm wasn't that the beginning of the Tom Brady era? What a dbag!

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      • i wanna kno whats wrong with my numbers

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        • I don't see anything wrong with what Kiper says. I've never been a Mel Kiper fan, but he assesses the trade pretty well and he's not "hatin'" on Jay Cutler. The views of the fans and the Pro Bowl voters don't necessarily coincide with the views of NFL football coaches. Teams have traded Super Bowl winners away. Vince Young and Lienhart have both been benched, and Young lifted his team to the playoffs. When you think about it, Cassell is a more mature quarterback than Cutler, and he is more familiar with the system McDaniel wants to install.

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          • Originally posted by Denver-Sports614 View Post
            i wanna kno whats wrong with my numbers
            Cutler isn't 24-24. He hasn't played 48 games, or three seasons.

            He started 5 games after the benching of Plummer, and then two 16 game seasons.

            5 + 16 + 16 = 37.

            He has a career record of 17-20. (2-3, 7-9, 8-8)

            Thank you Skywalker for the Marshall sig!
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            Thank you Damien and Darrent for the memories. You will never be forgotten!

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            • I come neither to praise Kiper nor to bury him, but let's get real. The Cincinnati Bengals have Carson Palmer now, and they're still no good. So maybe it's not Akili Smith's or John Walsh's fault. As for Ryan Leaf, I recall watching the Chargers during that time, and they could have made any QB look bad. Look at all the good QBs that have gone high in the draft to bad teams -- it's usually the beginning of the end of their careers. Mike Williams went to Detroit, graveyard of many a great receiver.

              Originally posted by Bronks Fan View Post
              Sounds like Mel Kiper has had a history of moronic QB assessments:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Kiper_Jr.

              * In the same 1995 Draft, Kiper had rated BYU Quarterback John Walsh as a first round pick. Walsh declared for the draft after his Junior season and had an abysmal NFL combine where he ran a 5.3 forty yard dash and displayed a weak arm in workouts. Nonetheless, Kiper still rated Walsh as a late 1st/early 2nd round pick on the day of the draft and said he would be a perfect fit for a "West Coast Offense" team like the San Francisco 49ers because of his accuracy on short passes. Walsh slid all the way to the 7th round where he was finally taken by the Cincinnati Bengals. He never appeared in a single game for the quarterback needy Bengals and was out of football less than a year later.

              * n 1998 Kiper said that Washington State Quarterback Ryan Leaf's "attitude" (which had rubbed teammates and coaches the wrong way in college) would be an asset in the NFL and give him a mental advantage over Peyton Manning. Kiper also said that Leaf had the better natural physical tools and would be a great quarterback, though he still rated Manning as the more polished and better overall prospect. Leaf was chosen second overall by the San Diego Chargers immediately after Manning. Leaf's career soon imploded, largely because of a confrontational attitude and poor practice habits that alienated teammates, coaches, and fans. He is now regarded as not only the worst bust in NFL draft history, but also possibly the biggest bust in all of professional sports.[9] His story is viewed as a cautionary tale of what can happen when a team attempts to build around a player with raw talent but questionable attitude.

              * In 1999, Kiper said that Oregon quarterback Akili Smith would be a great NFL player and would finally provide the Cincinnati Bengals with the passer they'd lacked since Boomer Esiason. Smith was selected ahead of Daunte Culpepper, Torry Holt, Edgerrin James, Champ Bailey, and Jevon Kearse, but he spent less than four abysmal seasons in Cincinnati, starting only 17 games. He has since struggled in several brief stops in the NFL, NFL Europe, and the CFL. It's notable that Kiper rated Smith higher than Donovan McNabb and Culpepper, despite the facts that Smith only had 11 starts at the college level and had performed poorly on the Wonderlic aptitude tests administered at the NFL Combine, both of which are traditionally seen as important indicators of a quarterback's readiness for the NFL. Smith's career was marred by inconsistency and failure to grasp the complexities of the Bengals' playbook, issues which appear to have been foreshadowed by his lack of experience and low scores.

              * Before the 2001 NFL season, Kiper predicted the New England Patriots to go 0-16 and have the 1st pick in the 2002 NFL Draft. Instead, the Patriots went 11-5 and went on to win Super Bowl XXXVI against the St. Louis Rams.[citation needed]

              * One of Kiper's most well known mistakes was when he stated that USC wide receiver Mike Williams would be the best player in his 2005 draft class, despite not having played football in over a year after being ruled ineligible by the NCAA. When ESPN analyst Merril Hoge disagreed, Kiper uttered the now infamous line, "I'll see you at his Hall of Fame induction." Williams has been a remarkable disappointment, battling weight problems, playing very little and showing no signs of improvement with any of the three teams he's played for. Williams was unsigned after three years in the NFL as of 2008.

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              • Originally posted by Shadow7ax View Post
                I also believe that Cutler rushed into conclusion and was caught in the heat when he made that phone interview. He shouldn't have done it. However, i think some people and members here (you included) are taking this into an extreme source to now constantely put him into the lowest and darkest spot as if he had commited a crime. He complained, he said he was upset, he didn't see this coming, he was in shock. He should've kept his mouth shut, but he didn't.

                Now, you said that McD was contemplating what was best for his team. I disagree. In my opinion, McD was looking for what was best for HIS OWN future reputation as coach. He hasn't coached a single game yet. He has no experience. It's obvious the moment he saw Cassel (a QB he knows so well) available, he tried to get him. And i say this because Cutler is NOT the main problem in this team. So why try to get another QB (and a back up one) and replace the franchised one which is not necesarily the problem in the team? No other reason but to feel more comfortable and secured working with a QB he already knows.

                You may say that he was doing it for the team, but by doing that he's ignoring the main problem that this team had this past season.
                Not only would he have gotten a QB that knows his system and has had success in it, but rumor has it he would be getting 2 1st round picks as well, basically a lateral move at QB, then stockpiling draft picks to fix other problems. Sounds like a no-brainer to me!

                But, it didn't happen, so Jay, Josh, and we should all get over it and move forward!

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                • Why is everyone milking this for psychological effectiveness. The guy is a professional athelete, you can be glad he´s not in a cocoon towards the media, he is giving you entertainment.
                  Why are you building this up to be a psychological tool by the "oh so much" more mature coach McDaniels? A predicament that can be turned into an object lesson for anyone and everyone. Don´t you realise you are trying to twist things around so the athelete has the short end of contracts. You are trying to create a forsooth climate of futility. Is it so entertaining and soothing to see a person reduced in their possibilities?
                  mooncamping is a new Cleveland Browns fan


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                  • Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
                    I know... another Cutler thread... but there are a lot of things going on that have been bothering me and that article in the Denver Post really pushed me to the edge to start my first thread.

                    I think Jay is a complex character that people are trying to peg and it's not fair. It's so unnerving to hear all the same crap "he's immature, get rid of him" or "he's the greatest ever... no defense, blah blah blah".

                    Well, I am obviously in the "keep Cutler" camp and I think he needs a fair shake. Actions speak louder than words. Read between the lines. We have a QB that values INTEGRITY, HONESTY AND LOYALTY who goes into shock when people around him act in ways that contradict his values. This is GREAT! It means he is respected in the locker room, and should be respected by the fans. I think it also says a lot that Plummer had great things to say about the guy to whom he lost his job. His peers, coaches and people that know him best love him.

                    Why is he lacking respect from some fans? Because he has ZERO tact. So what! That's all it is. This is something that you learn as you get older. Because he values honesty & integrity, he can't seem to hold his tongue. Once again... so what! What does he say that people out there don't think? Nothing, really. He just needs to learn tact... that's all.

                    Personally, I find his interviews & pressers highly entertaining!
                    All good points, but you have to read between the lines man.

                    Cutler has brought all of this negative attention on himself. He stated that his arm is stronger than John Elways, he had the conflict with Rivers, who took the high road while Cutler continued to run his mouth. He stated after a Broncos loss this past season "well, San Diego lost, so we'll be ok", he is passive and very complacent in post game pressers.

                    I read a few threads on here after the fan fair last year that said he was on his cell phone the whole time and bolted early. Then there was a thread about how a poster and his son (who is a huge Cutler fan) and had some kind of sickness or something waited in line for hours only to have Jay shun them and say "he was done", I wish I could find that thread.

                    Yeah, he can't seem to hold his tongue TO THE PRESS, he spouts off to the press and then refuses to talk to his Head Coach to see what really went down for a week and a half. He was openly upset about Shanny being fired and Bates being shwon the door, he didn't return his new Head Coaches phone calls and probably rubbed McDaniels the wrong way since day 1, prompting the trade discussions.

                    I do understand why you defend him, he's our QB, he does alot for kids with diabetes, and he seems likeable. But he brought all of this on himself. He could really take a lesson from Aaron Rodgers who sat for 3 years while Favre deceide at the last minute every year to come back and Rodgers never said anything bad about it, all he ever said is "I'm gonna go out there and compete", I guarantee you Jay would have never acted like that if he had to ride the pine for 3 years while Plummer was our starting QB, he would have asked to be traded by year 2!

                    Cutler is the face of our franchise and I want him to stay, but he really needs an attitude adjustment, I have no problem with a guy wearing his heart on his sleeve, but he needs to keep stuff closed-door, just my opinion!

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                    • Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
                      All good points, but you have to read between the lines man.

                      Cutler has brought all of this negative attention on himself. He stated that his arm is stronger than John Elways, he had the conflict with Rivers, who took the high road while Cutler continued to run his mouth. He stated after a Broncos loss this past season "well, San Diego lost, so we'll be ok", he is passive and very complacent in post game pressers.

                      I read a few threads on here after the fan fair last year that said he was on his cell phone the whole time and bolted early. Then there was a thread about how a poster and his son (who is a huge Cutler fan) and had some kind of sickness or something waited in line for hours only to have Jay shun them and say "he was done", I wish I could find that thread.

                      Yeah, he can't seem to hold his tongue TO THE PRESS, he spouts off to the press and then refuses to talk to his Head Coach to see what really went down for a week and a half. He was openly upset about Shanny being fired and Bates being shwon the door, he didn't return his new Head Coaches phone calls and probably rubbed McDaniels the wrong way since day 1, prompting the trade discussions.

                      I do understand why you defend him, he's our QB, he does alot for kids with diabetes, and he seems likeable. But he brought all of this on himself. He could really take a lesson from Aaron Rodgers who sat for 3 years while Favre deceide at the last minute every year to come back and Rodgers never said anything bad about it, all he ever said is "I'm gonna go out there and compete", I guarantee you Jay would have never acted like that if he had to ride the pine for 3 years while Plummer was our starting QB, he would have asked to be traded by year 2!

                      Cutler is the face of our franchise and I want him to stay, but he really needs an attitude adjustment, I have no problem with a guy wearing his heart on his sleeve, but he needs to keep stuff closed-door, just my opinion!


                      that same attitude is showing when he flys a low level executive to the probowl for free....not to mention royal sheff and clady.....that same bad attitude shows when he talks to kids all over the USA about diabetes. Thats same attitude shows when he talks about his passion for the game and the city of denver????? i think not


                      people just try and analyze him to much and make crap up

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                      • Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
                        that same attitude is showing when he flys a low level executive to the probowl for free....not to mention royal sheff and clady.....that same bad attitude shows when he talks to kids all over the USA about diabetes. Thats same attitude shows when he talks about his passion for the game and the city of denver????? i think not


                        people just try and analyze him to much and make crap up
                        No kidding. Some fans thinks that just because they watch a game they know eveything about a player and about the game.
                        John 11: 25-27

                        My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                        Thanks Snk16

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                        • Originally posted by elevation INC View Post
                          that same attitude is showing when he flys a low level executive to the probowl for free....not to mention royal sheff and clady.....that same bad attitude shows when he talks to kids all over the USA about diabetes. Thats same attitude shows when he talks about his passion for the game and the city of denver????? i think not


                          people just try and analyze him to much and make crap up

                          The writing is on the wall, take your blinders off.

                          He seems to be good with teammates, I don't doubt that, but when it comes to him handling pressure situations off the field he is still very immature.

                          I give him credit for helping kids with diabetes, but will not kiss his *** for it, every high-profile NFL player has some kind of charity or organization, I think it is a requirement or something. He is not special in that manner, he is 1 of 700 NFL players that help kids, again, I'll give him credit for it, but it does not define him.

                          Anyone that is OK with his actions over this whole McDaniels trade thing is kidding themselves. We do not know the whole story, but from what I've read and seen, he went the wrong way about it, he should have confronted Josh instead of running to the media.

                          It's kind of like that kid that caught wind of another kid talking smack about him, and instead of going and confronting that kid he tells all his friends how he is gonna kick his arse, then when the other kid tries to confront him, he runs and hides. It is a cowardly approach that could have been very simple.

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                          • I´m starting to think we in America have the wrong understanding of democratic processes. A minority that aligns at opportune moments can not be seen as majority. Nor can a true majority decide a citicen´s fate, neccessarily, if that person is law abiding and, you know, not wicked.
                            I mean you can use your credit-card to make a statement, but can you use it to make politics or push an opinion? Probably not.
                            We should value public perception and opinions, but aren´t we sick of people posturing as majority proponents? Where is the proof you are authoratative?
                            Democracy is not a vehicle for the more strongly opposed, or those who opinionate harder, or those who hold certain positions. I mean if you have a million opinions, and you count only those crowding the boat, is that democracy, is that justice?
                            To sway the swayers, is that not corrupt?
                            We need to reanalyze what constitutes democratic process, and even if that is applicable to every person, situation and decision. I mean a majority should matter, but is it ultimate in every instance? A minority that has authority is chosen and reevaluated regularly.
                            But due to our constitution and laws, some situations are absolutely hands off to the public. Matters pertaining to personal choice and preference, or to protect from persecution.
                            Yes we should opinionate burn the ether rant and rave cry out for justice and what is right, but there are limits regarding what can be seen as reasonable and feasible for an individual, even in the face of extreme circumstances.

                            We should have opinions, get excited, use sway, use majority shares in business, give and take loyalty, ect., but to manifest and materialize pressures on a person is not within our rights even when we have the majority.

                            I don´t know exactly what I´m blabbing about, but geez, isn´t it advantagious socially to allow for exponents, publically visible and accessible personalities, to tolerate discrepancies and slight deviances from the masses, so we can discuss our own lives? Why is anyone that ascends to the public stage seen as more vulnerable, less free? We have to oppose this mass anxiety. To fail publicly is not multiplyable in severity.

                            I´m going round and round here, hope I hit on something, though.
                            mooncamping is a new Cleveland Browns fan


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                            • Originally posted by KWHIT97 View Post
                              The writing is on the wall, take your blinders off.

                              He seems to be good with teammates, I don't doubt that, but when it comes to him handling pressure situations off the field he is still very immature.

                              I give him credit for helping kids with diabetes, but will not kiss his *** for it, every high-profile NFL player has some kind of charity or organization, I think it is a requirement or something. He is not special in that manner, he is 1 of 700 NFL players that help kids, again, I'll give him credit for it, but it does not define him.

                              Anyone that is OK with his actions over this whole McDaniels trade thing is kidding themselves. We do not know the whole story, but from what I've read and seen, he went the wrong way about it, he should have confronted Josh instead of running to the media.
                              It's kind of like that kid that caught wind of another kid talking smack about him, and instead of going and confronting that kid he tells all his friends how he is gonna kick his arse, then when the other kid tries to confront him, he runs and hides. It is a cowardly approach that could have been very simple.

                              I agree. I'm not ok with the way he handled the whole thing. But i'm not in the crucify-him-bandwagon either. I think McDaniels will bring the best of Cutler cause he won't be pampered anymore like he was with Shanny. This trading talk/rumour/attempt/younameit was a big scare for Cutler and i'm hoping it will bring a beast of him on the field. And of course, i'm hoping the rest of the team will contribute to that as well.
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                              • Cutler cancells meeting

                                So, 850 KOA (Denver radio station) has a weekly segment with Adam Schefter. I didnt hear the segment, but I heard the aftermath. They are saying Schefter is reporting Cutler is not coming back to talk with McD, and has no intent to do so in the near future.

                                *It is Schefters speculation that since Jay is not planning to reschedule, it was he who cancelled it.

                                I'll leave my opinion on this out so as not to anger those that think Jay walks on water.

                                Nothing on Schefters blog that I could find. This was reported about 30 minutes ago.

                                *Updated to reflect clarification by KOA. Thanks to Al Wilson 4 Mayor for the latest info.
                                Last edited by pitnlala; 03-09-2009, 12:26 PM.

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