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  • broncoinseattle
    replied
    Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
    No buddy. I'm not denying that Cutler is a good QB. I'm just saying that the "athletic skill set" is not the most important factor. His mechanics, fundamentals are much more important. His footwork, awareness and quick release, things like that. Having above average mobility or arm strenght are extra features that increase his performance. Of course Vince Young is not elite, he sucks. And he has nice arm strenght and amazing mobility, but lacks the most important things.
    Cutler is a "good" QB? Apparently, you know more than Troy Aikman, Ron Jaworski and Phil Simms. These former QB's say Cutler is a franchise QB.
    They've seen 3 years of Cutler and stated he's a franchise QB. "Good" does not equal "franchise". I've seen posts that compare Orton and Peyton Manning, that say Orton will be All-Pro in McD's system. None of the football experts are saying this. It's okay to be a homer but let's not pretend we're experts on NFL quarterbacks.

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  • Mile High Jedi
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncoace67 View Post
    You have to be crazy to think Orton is going to top Cutler's stats from last year. And if your inferring he MIGHT top Cutler's stats this year as a bear, who cares? Cutler would obviously do better with our offense, the one he is accustomed to, and is better than Chicago's.

    Bottom line most people would prefer if our defense still stunk, with possibility of getting better, and shanahan and cutler wre still here, than to have what we have now. Sure a lot of people wnated change, nobody wanted to dismantle one of the best offenses in the league, AND make no notable improvements on D. (Dawkins is 90 yrs old and won't cure cancer anytime soon).
    You're right, I would have to be crazy to think that Orton could have a better statistical year then Cutler's previous year, and that's not what I'm suggesting. Of course Cutler would have done better in Denver then in Chicago this next season- and so will Kyle Orton. That's my point!

    Cutler's a very capable QB, you will see few argue that point.
    But does Denver HAVE to have him in order to win a Championsip? I don't think so, and neither do the Broncos.

    It is indeed a tragedy that Jay and the Broncos could not find a solution that would allow him to remain in Denver. But looking forward, I'm one of those who believe the Broncos offense can still be successful.
    It seems likely Cutler needs a talented Offense like Denver's more then Denver needs Cutler's talent as a QB. We'll certainly find out this next season.
    Last edited by Mile High Jedi; 05-30-2009, 07:51 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • redneckrocker
    replied
    Originally posted by dannylee View Post
    i
    20 years and counting ive been a bronco ive seen elway cry ive seen grise get 14stiches in his chin ive seen chris miller win a game then get the hell knocked out of him. ive seen the crazyiest beard in pro sports in PLUMMER what doe these QBs have in commen they played FOR the Broncos not FOR themselves
    Ummm, Plummer may have been playing for himself?!

    Leave a comment:


  • dannylee
    replied
    Originally posted by Gideon333 View Post
    And Jeff George would have won multiple Super Bowls - Sadly, I'm beginning to think of Cutler in the same way as him. All the skill in the world, but much ME to be effective in a TEAM setting
    i love this line thank you gideon. Cutler is a franchise QB but he has proven over this how debacle that he was only interested in Jay Cutler and NOT the Broncos so good riddance id rather have 3 years of mediocraty than have a player who doesnt want to play for the team i love

    20 years and counting ive been a bronco ive seen elway cry ive seen grise get 14stiches in his chin ive seen chris miller win a game then get the hell knocked out of him. ive seen the crazyiest beard in pro sports in plummer what doe these QBs have in commen they played FOR the Broncos not FOR themselves

    Leave a comment:


  • Gideon333
    replied
    Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
    Part of what makes these guys great is the franchises ability to put the complete package around them. None of these guys won a Super Bowl on their own, not even Elway or Montana.

    If they were stuck in suck franchises who couldnt draft or sign proper FAs, they wouldnt be where they were. With out the proper foundations, these guys might not have been considered ELITE at all. Look at Montana. He wasnt the most athletic, the fastest nor did he have the strongest arm. BUT he was smart and he was surrounded by players that played to his strengths. He elevated himself and he elevated others and he had a FO that knew how to build to him. If it was just about being the most athletic or having the best measurables, Ryan Leaf would still be playing.

    Above all, football is a TEAM sport. Yes, you can elevate yourself, but the real winners elevate those around them. That is what makes a SB winner.
    And Jeff George would have won multiple Super Bowls - Sadly, I'm beginning to think of Cutler in the same way as him. All the skill in the world, but much ME to be effective in a TEAM setting

    Leave a comment:


  • McSmashie
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoinseattle View Post
    That's a great point. And I couldn't agree more. I mean, look at Marino's career.

    But my point is that when you look at the statistics, most of the time you need a franchise QB to win championships. Bradshaw with the Steelers, Montana with the 49ers, Aikman and Dallas, Elway and Denver, Brady and NE, Roethisburger and Pittsburgh. All those teams had surrounded their QB with talent. BUT, the building block to any championship team is the QB. When you have one you do what it takes to keep one. McD let his ego get in the way in his dealings with Cutler. Statistically speaking we won't be a championship level team until we get another franchise QB.
    Part of what makes these guys great is the franchises ability to put the complete package around them. None of these guys won a Super Bowl on their own, not even Elway or Montana.

    If they were stuck in suck franchises who couldnt draft or sign proper FAs, they wouldnt be where they were. With out the proper foundations, these guys might not have been considered ELITE at all. Look at Montana. He wasnt the most athletic, the fastest nor did he have the strongest arm. BUT he was smart and he was surrounded by players that played to his strengths. He elevated himself and he elevated others and he had a FO that knew how to build to him. If it was just about being the most athletic or having the best measurables, Ryan Leaf would still be playing.

    Above all, football is a TEAM sport. Yes, you can elevate yourself, but the real winners elevate those around them. That is what makes a SB winner.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gideon333
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncoace67 View Post
    You have to be crazy to think Orton is going to top Cutler's stats from last year. And if your inferring he MIGHT top Cutler's stats this year as a bear, who cares? Cutler would obviously do better with our offense, the one he is accustomed to, and is better than Chicago's.

    Bottom line most people would prefer if our defense still stunk, with possibility of getting better, and shanahan and cutler wre still here, than to have what we have now. Sure a lot of people wnated change, nobody wanted to dismantle one of the best offenses in the league, AND make no notable improvements on D. (Dawkins is 90 yrs old and won't cure cancer anytime soon).
    Not Me - Put me down in the "THANK GOD THE CHANGES WERE MADE" Category. I think Shanny's time had run its course and his band-aid approach to every offseason has grown old and stale with the players and ownership - he lost the team.

    On a positive note, one could argue, that the defense was not as bad as it seemed - In those 40-50 pt games, they lost confidence in the coaching staff and basically gave up and got rolled.

    If thats the case, and the lockerroom and team seemingly having bought into the McDaniels philosphy, I can see success in all phases of the team

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncoace67
    replied
    Originally posted by Mile High Jedi View Post
    Sorry, but Brady isn't even an Elway.
    And Orton 'dinks and dunks' becuase he's been on a Bears team that has had little offensive potential. The same cannot be said of the Patriots or the Broncos.

    If Kyle (or Chris) comes away from this next season with better stats then Jay Cuttler,
    which is entirely possible, then you have a whole lot of "I told you so" comming your way

    Go Broncos!!!
    You have to be crazy to think Orton is going to top Cutler's stats from last year. And if your inferring he MIGHT top Cutler's stats this year as a bear, who cares? Cutler would obviously do better with our offense, the one he is accustomed to, and is better than Chicago's.

    Bottom line most people would prefer if our defense still stunk, with possibility of getting better, and shanahan and cutler wre still here, than to have what we have now. Sure a lot of people wnated change, nobody wanted to dismantle one of the best offenses in the league, AND make no notable improvements on D. (Dawkins is 90 yrs old and won't cure cancer anytime soon).

    Leave a comment:


  • -Rod-
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoinseattle View Post
    It seems like we don't want to listen to the experts. Simms and Jaworski are saying Cutler is elite. The aren't saying Vince Young is elite.....or Orton is elite. If folks want to believe McD can work magic with Orton and turn him into something he's not that's their choice.

    But the experts are saying Cutler is a franchise-type QB and I listen to the experts. I don't have a problem with people who have their opinion about Cutler. Let's just try to have some realism when we assess Cutler and Orton.
    No buddy. I'm not denying that Cutler is a good QB. I'm just saying that the "athletic skill set" is not the most important factor. His mechanics, fundamentals are much more important. His footwork, awareness and quick release, things like that. Having above average mobility or arm strenght are extra features that increase his performance. Of course Vince Young is not elite, he sucks. And he has nice arm strenght and amazing mobility, but lacks the most important things.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncoinseattle
    replied
    Listen to Simms and Jaworski

    Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
    I got your point but an "athletic skill set" means nothing if the QB does not have good fundamentals and mechanics. He can run well, move well, be hard to bring down, but in the end... can he throw the ball with accuracy and lead his team in tough situations? Vince Young also has all the physical tools just like Cutler, but he lacks the essential and looks more like a RB than a QB.
    It seems like we don't want to listen to the experts. Simms and Jaworski are saying Cutler is elite. The aren't saying Vince Young is elite.....or Orton is elite. If folks want to believe McD can work magic with Orton and turn him into something he's not that's their choice.

    But the experts are saying Cutler is a franchise-type QB and I listen to the experts. I don't have a problem with people who have their opinion about Cutler. Let's just try to have some realism when we assess Cutler and Orton.

    Leave a comment:


  • saphire1
    replied
    And Orton 'dinks and dunks' becuase he's been on a Bears team that has had little offensive potential.
    he dinks and dunks bec thats all he can do - noodle arm orton.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncoinseattle
    replied
    The QB experts

    I'm perfectly willing to eat crow if I'm wrong.

    I'll refer to my earlier post that quoted Jaworski and Phil Simms.
    I'm no expert on QB's so I'll continue to rely on the real experts. You don't see ANY football analysts saying that Orton is a franchise QB. That's because he ISN'T a franchise QB. All the hoping in the world isn't going to make him an elite player.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mile High Jedi
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoinseattle View Post

    Orton is certainly not an elite QB like a Brady or an Elway. He is a dink and dunk game manager. Not knocking him that's just a fact...

    In order to be a franchise QB you have to have a certain athletic skill set. Orton doesn't have those skills...
    Sorry, but Brady isn't even an Elway.
    And Orton 'dinks and dunks' becuase he's been on a Bears team that has had little offensive potential. The same cannot be said of the Patriots or the Broncos.

    If Kyle (or Chris) comes away from this next season with better stats then Jay Cuttler, which is entirely possible, then you have a whole lot of "I told you so" comming your way

    Go Broncos!!!
    Last edited by Mile High Jedi; 05-30-2009, 01:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • -Rod-
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoinseattle View Post
    Ron Jaworski on Cutler:
    "I still think he's the best young quarterback in the game. When do you get an opportunity to get a 25-year-old quarterback this good? He may have the most physical tools of any quarterback in the league. He has a strong arm, the ability to move and throw on the run and he can make defenses defend the field from sideline to sideline. He's got touch with a gunslinger's mentality – quite a combination.''

    Phil Simms
    "I don’t understand why anyone would give up a franchise QB. You draft a guy like Mathew Stafford, in hopes that he BECOMES Jay Cutler."
    I got your point but an "athletic skill set" means nothing if the QB does not have good fundamentals and mechanics. He can run well, move well, be hard to bring down, but in the end... can he throw the ball with accuracy and lead his team in tough situations? Vince Young also has all the physical tools just like Cutler, but he lacks the essential and looks more like a RB than a QB.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncoinseattle
    replied
    Listen to those that know...

    Ron Jaworski on Cutler:
    "I still think he's the best young quarterback in the game. When do you get an opportunity to get a 25-year-old quarterback this good? He may have the most physical tools of any quarterback in the league. He has a strong arm, the ability to move and throw on the run and he can make defenses defend the field from sideline to sideline. He's got touch with a gunslinger's mentality – quite a combination.''

    Phil Simms
    "I don’t understand why anyone would give up a franchise QB. You draft a guy like Mathew Stafford, in hopes that he BECOMES Jay Cutler."

    Leave a comment:

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