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  • Agree with,Disagree with... Thanks MindField for being one the better thread starters on the boards ....
    :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo: :logo:

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    • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
      I think McDaniels can go a long way to restoring his reputation if he adhered to his own standards about communication and reaching out to his players, if he simply admitted to Jay that he mishandled the situation from the beginning and he should have conveyed information to Jay a lot better than he did and has done.

      He doesn't have to regret trying to trade Jay. I think we're beyond that now, and really, McDaniels is within his right to make whatever deal necessary to improve this team from his perspective.

      But he can own up to his mishandling of the situation, and put the ball in Jay's court. And if Jay is willing to listen and come back, you bring him in on the basis that he too admits that he could have handled things better and gives McDaniels his public support.

      Unfortunately, it appears McDaniels isn't going to budge on this, and it will ultimately be his and Cutler's undoing.
      I still think all Cutler is looking for is an apology and a unambiguous assertion that he is the Broncos QB. None of this "yes you are, but anyone is tradeable" crap (doesn't that sound a lot like a childish "I'll clean my room, but not because you're telling me to").

      The one thing that concerns me is McDaniels is constantly changing his position. Aside from his shifting stance on whether he actively tried to trade Cutler, listened to offers, or did nothing at all, he is also telling everyone that he wants Cutler to be his QB and telling Cutler that everyone is tradeable. Moreover, he has already spoken to Cutler twice and hasn't fixed the issue. What is he hoping to accomplish over a one-on-one? After both meetings, we have heard Cutler say one thing and McDaniels another. Whom do we believe? The guy who speaks his mind even when he should shut up or the guy who has already been caught lying multiple times?
      Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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      • Originally posted by AC1 View Post
        Mindfield, you were one of the biggest Cutler supporters right up until he slammed the Shanahan firing (which, by your own admision was a big issue for you). While I understand your dislike of Shanahan, I can't understand why Cutler's statements would bother you so much. What else would you expect from a guy who is described by everyone who knows him as fiercely loyal and someone who calls a spade a spade. When a player like that finds out that his head coach, who not only drafted and mentored him but also built an explosive offense around him, why would he not be upset? From all accounts, Cutler stands by his guys that aren't future HOF-ers (like his teammates at Vanderbilt and Jeremy Bates). Why would he support the sudden and unexplained firing of his mentor who is actually any good?

        I think you're being too easy on McDaniels, who IMO has been the biggest culprit in this (even though everyone has a share of the blame). It's rare to see a guy make a decision that looks bad from both a business and ethical standpoint. But that's exactly what McDaniels did.
        I don't disagree with much of what you have said.
        It has been botched from every angle.

        I have soured on Cutler's antics, but I have not written him off, and that has nothing to do with his support of Shanahan. I have no doubt he was 'shocked', as he put it, that Shanahan got canned, hell I think everyone was, even me, who wanted Shanahan gone. I still did not think it would actually happen.

        I still think Cutler ultimately will decide alot of how this all turns out.

        All I know is that I have been at Investco when fans have turned on a QB (Plummer and Griese), and I saw the abuse that rained down on Wade Phillips when he fell out of favor.

        I am not sure this is a fence McDaniels can mend with alot of Bronco fans, and God help him if they struggle next season, because the fans will be ruthless, and as you can see from the threads in this forum, McDaniels is already hated by many.

        It's a shame, and even before the guy actually coaches a game.
        Last edited by MindField; 03-17-2009, 02:37 PM.

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        • Originally posted by A Mile High Guy View Post
          Leinart- No, im sorry, he is an okay QB possibly a Carson Palmer type once he is a lot older but not impressive

          Brady Quinn- Hell, I can get on board with this. Brady did an excellent first start against Denver and he has a fire inside of him that is worthy of a winner.

          Sam Bradford- Supposidly JaMarcus Russell was supposed to be last years Bradford.... Well Jamarcus is a joke now.... and Bradford prolly will be too if he is thrown in without experience.
          Sam Bradford didnt declare....Mathew Stafford did though.
          New England Patriots GM

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          • It Depends

            If Cutler stays maybe 10 seasons. If Cutler goes 3 seasons max.

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            • Originally posted by Darth Tyger View Post
              Don't even appreciate the free help. Tsk, tsk, tsk. My, my, my....how Bronco-like you are.
              Nice and condescending, very darth tyger of you.

              How typical of most of your posts.
              My 2011 adopted poster.........and and



              Adopted by: and

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              • Originally posted by NagaSadow View Post
                This kind of thinking is really funny to me.. like everyone knows exactly how things are going to play out on the field. I guess if we start winning 11+ games every year and going deep into the playoffs hindsight will be 20/20 again..

                I think the big problem here is Cutler and many, many fans misinterpreting the message that Josh McDaniels is trying to send. He's saying that if he wants to trade a player, ANY player, in an effort to make the team better as he and the front office see fit, he can and will do it. This is a necessary stance for him to take. They have to show who's in charge here, that no one player is bigger than the team. I respect him for that, and from what I'm hearing, a lot of the other players are coming out and saying that they respect him too.

                Cutler hears this and thinks he's hearing that they want to trade him. He doesn't see that they're just trying to put their stamp on the organization. The Broncos official position is that they can and will trade any player if they think it will improve the team, but they don't think trading Cutler at this point will do that. Maybe at one point, they considered a deal that would have brought in another starting QB, albeit a downgrade, but at the same time improve their team in other ways. Cutler gets these messages mixed up, sees it as antagonizing, and takes it personally.

                If he realizes that the Broncos aren't out to get him, maybe this can all be worked out still.
                Yeah, he certainly is showing that he is boss and anybody can be traded at any time, even after we tell you that you are our guy. Pick the top dog on the team to make your point. Rule with fear and demand respect, even if you haven't earned any.

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                • Originally posted by Gbt31 View Post
                  Sam Bradford didnt declare....Mathew Stafford did though.
                  we r talking getting a first round draft pick assuming mr. bradford plays at that level next year


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                  • Originally posted by denfan07 View Post
                    dont question my knowledge of the game "Joe" i know the numbers that tony romo has put up but how many playoff games has he won? how many times has he been to the playoffs? with a star studded cast on both offense and defense hes had and he still cant get it done? no to mention the december losing streak he has...Quincy Carter may not have good numbers but he did the same with the cowboys when they had a less star studded cast lol numbers are nice but it doesnt make tony romo a fitting replacement for jay cutler
                    denfan07,

                    I can question whatever and whoever I want to, this is an open forum where people discuss various topics relating to the Broncos and NFL. If you are not comfortable with people giving you a rebuttal or any feedback for something you posted then I’m sorry…get over it. I’m not going to change the way I post. At this point we have to agree to disagree on the topic, however I would bet most reasonable people would agree that Tony Romo is much better than Quincy Carter.

                    Regular Season Records with Cowboys:
                    Tony Romo = 40-24 (.625)
                    Quincy Carter = 20-28 (.416)

                    Please note that I do not want Cutler to leave (one of his biggest fans), however if he does leave and looking over the various options we might have Tony Romo is NOT a bad replacement. Ultimately the QB for Denver (Jay Cutler or other) will simply have to buy into and execute McDaniel’s offense.

                    Thx,
                    Joe
                    To live is to suffer, to survive is to find meaning in the suffering.

                    sigpic

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                    • Originally posted by MindField View Post
                      I don't disagree with much of what you have said.
                      It has been botched from every angle.

                      I have soured on Cutler's antics, but I have not written him off, and that has nothing to do with his support of Shanahan. I have no doubt he was 'shocked', as he put it, that Shanahan got canned, hell I think everyone was, even me, who wanted Shanahan gone. I still did not think it would actually happen.

                      I still think Cutler ultimately will decide alot of how this all turns out.
                      I completely disagree. Cutler has made it clear - he doesn't think this can be fixed and he wants to be traded. If the Broncos just sit on that, then Cutler's position will never change.

                      If the Broncos believe Jay is the guy and they want to move forward with him, then they will do exactly what I've said they HAVE to do - they will concede to Jay they mishandled the situation and lied to him, and apologize for their end of the mess. Then if Jay is willing, they can bring him back in, hammer out the rest of the details, and Jay can rejoin the team on the basis that he too apologizes for mishandling things and publicly gives his support to Josh McDaniels.

                      It's all about whether or not the Broncos want to move forward with Cutler. Thus far, they've not demonstrated any interest in keeping Cutler in Denver. If McDaniels wants to be here in Denver for the duration of his contract, he will understand that he needs Jay and open the line of communication.

                      But again, that's on the basis that McDaniels acknowleges that he's mishandled things, which he's stead-fast refused.
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                        • Originally posted by MindField View Post
                          I don't disagree with much of what you have said.
                          It has been botched from every angle.

                          I have soured on Cutler's antics, but I have not written him off, and that has nothing to do with his support of Shanahan. I have no doubt he was 'shocked'
                          as he put it, that Shanahan got canned, hell I think everyone was, even me, who wanted Shanahan gone. I still did not think it would actually happen.

                          I still think Cutler ultimately will decide alot of how this all turns out.
                          Fair enough. I don't like Cutler's honesty-at-all-costs approach with the press. I wish Champ Bailey would have a talk with him about keeping smoe opinions to himself. But that same naivete of his is what suggests to me that he has little control over what is actually going on here.
                          Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                          • Originally posted by AC1 View Post
                            Fair enough. I don't like Cutler's honesty-at-all-costs approach with the press. I wish Champ Bailey would have a talk with him about keeping smoe opinions to himself. But that same naivete of his is what suggests to me that he has little control over what is actually going on here.
                            In fairness, Champ hasn't exactly shyed away from telling the media what's on his mind, either.
                            sigpic

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                            • Originally posted by Crush77 View Post
                              That is like saying I am not patriotic because I disagreed with George Bush! Or even worse... My wife said till death to us part but I beat her or gamble all of our life savings away... according to you she would stay with me NO MATTER WHAT!

                              Get a clue I was a fan of the Broncos because 1) that is where I am from 2) because I had always thought this was a classy organization. That has since changed and my choice to stop putting money into Bowlens pockets if this is the type of football we are looking forward too is exactly that, my choice. If anything, I think I am proving how much of a fan of the Broncos I am by standing up for what I believe and how I hope to be a part of the change.
                              If you chose to not support their decisions by taking away your financial support, that decision is yours.

                              It is your small way of sticking up for your beliefs and that certainly does not make you a bandwagon fan, regardless of what some people on this board may say.

                              I personally disagree with your stance (not the support part), but that's o.k. Hopefully, they will turn things around.
                              Last edited by kmcgough25; 03-17-2009, 02:46 PM.
                              My 2011 adopted poster.........and and



                              Adopted by: and

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                              • I'm guessing at the worst Bowlin will give him 3 years. He pretty much had to completely destroy this defense and start from scratch. Anyone who thinks that is supposed to be done and to be done successfully in 1-2 years is kidding themselves. (Sure there is some rare cases, but you can't hold make that your standard for success or failure). You have to mix the right vets and draft pics together until you get enough quality players in the draft, and that takes some time, especially when you really only have 2 quality players on defense, and one is aging. Now i'm not sure we'll be the 2nd best offense yardage wise, but I'm guessing we will do a little better than 16th in scoring offense under McDaniels. I guess it just depends on how Mike Nolan and the defense can handle their end of things..

                                Honestly, maybe its just wishful thinking but I'm seeing McDaniels and Co. here for a while. I believe Mike Nolan will be a steady DC for years to come, and I think this defense will get turned around, and the offense wont miss a beat. Maybe it won't happen this year, but I'm thinking/hoping if not this year, we will see big strides in year 2.

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