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  • WOW, I am an idiot! How did I not figure all of this out when I first saw it three or four days ago!! Oh, because he also owns a penthouse in downtown Denver where he spends most of his time, and also that he stated that he was looking to buy something with alot more acreage!

    Guess I'll quit acting like a five year old now that I've seen the "proof"!..............Thank you.:go:

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    • Originally posted by SDMisfit View Post
      didn't Cuddles inherit the team from Plummer? How much changed from one year to the next... and that is not a rhetorical question... I am curious?

      It doesn't seem feasible that the second Cutler took the helm, the defense went to hell...

      And last season, the running situation was an anamoly. He didnt have a winning record prior to last year did he?
      Here's what changed -

      1. Al Wilson's career-ending injury
      2. Courtney Brown's career-ending injury (the guy, while not as key as Wilson had nonetheless been key in getting us to the AFCCG)
      3. Ekuban got injured and missed an entire season and hasn't been the same since then
      4. John Lynch ran out of gas and lost his effectiveness
      5. Darrent Williams passed away (this affected the team much more than we've realized IMO)
      6. Larry Coyer was fired (personnel issues, not performance-related according to Shanahan)
      7. Trevor Pryce was released
      8. Mike Anderson was released
      9. Rod Smith retired (Plummer may have been the QB, but Rod was the leader of that offense)
      10. Kubiak left

      The team that played for the most part with Cutler had very little in common with Plummer's team and was mostly made up of draft picks from the last three years.

      The only guys who played a substantial amount of time (more than one season) with Plummer and Cutler each - Champ Bailey and DJ Williams

      Others like Nalen and Hamilton played just one full season with Cutler and yet others like John Lynch and Ian Gold were shells of their former selves in their one season with Cutler and never played football again.

      Had Cutler "inherited" that team that went to the 2005 AFCCG, we would have been back there at the very least by now.
      Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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      • How much money does Jay want?

        Maybe we can all chip in and keep him around!

        If we can get 500,000 Broncos fans to each pitch in $50 that would give him $25 million. I am guessing that would keep him around. $50 bucks to keep our team together!!!! That is less than the price of one Jersey! Plus, this way, he would have to give any of it to Bus Cook!
        Last edited by Breezer; 03-17-2009, 08:36 PM.
        If you love NFL stats and history
        pro-football-reference.com
        jt-sw.com/football

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        • I hope that is true... and since Cutler normally speaks the truth, I can't picture him being this fake.

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          • Originally posted by Breezer View Post
            Maybe we can all chip in and keep him around!
            I'll pitch in 2 bits.
            I'm done with this team until they're done with Josh.

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            • Originally posted by Ch1ggs View Post
              What if the Broncos have a good season without Cutler? I know it must be unimaginable with all the wins Cutler has given us, but try to imagine it.
              The Broncos may have a GOOD season without Cutler. I won't dimiss that. But they can have a GREAT season with him.

              You can continue to deny Cutler's talents. But given that so many teams are interested in him, it seems quite clear that he's immensely talented.

              And at 25-years-old and only 3 years into his career, there's no reason to think he's a finished product. After all, Elway was a whiney brat who couldn't read defenses, forced a trade and then forced a great, much-loved head coach out of town, not to mention a 3-time Super Bowl loser, in which he allowed two lesser quarterbacks to outplay him.

              And this was the perception of Elway up until 1997 - 15 years into his career.

              So no way do I believe for a second that Cutler is a lost cause.
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              • Originally posted by RealBronco View Post
                way to put it well RYO... this is exactly what's going on...

                there is no one that we could end up with in this trade that would make us a winner in the trade... not a #1 draft pick, not a bunch of picks... not an aging veteran that we'll lose to retirement in a couple of years... nothing.

                whoever lands Cutler wins HUGE in this...



                Jake Plummer was also a 7 year veteran who had never won anything with his previous team before coming to Denver and still didn't get anything done here except getting our hopes up... (this's a devil's advocate post)...

                Jay Cutler has only played 2 full seasons in the NFL and he's already a rising star...

                What'd Plummer do in year 2 as a starter? Hmmm....
                Exactly...If I was ANY of the teams in need, ESPECIALLY the Jets, Bills or Vikings...I would trade 3 first rounders and a second rounder in a HEARTBEAT for Cutler. He's young and he completes their teams...ANY team beats us in a trade if we have to get rid of him.
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                • Great Post !!

                  Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                  I've gone through this situation many times in my head today. And the more I think about it, the more it just doesn't sit right in my head, and it feels like there's a giant piece to the puzzle that's missing.

                  From McDaniels' side, Matt Cassel is out of the picture indefinitely. So from my perspective, he should be kissing Jay's butt and telling him 'you're my guy' after every sentence the two speak. He has to know as the rest of us do that this team is better with Jay than without, and he certainly has to realize he's not going to the playoffs with Chris Simms as his starting quarterback.

                  It just doesn't make sense that he's unwilling to budge from his position of dealing Jay if he has to knowing he doesn't really have a fallback plan anymore, as he would have with Cassel.

                  From Cutler's side, I can't fathom why he wouldn't return Bowlens' calls. Here you have a golden opportunity to speak directly to the top of the food chain himself - and maybe get on his good side. And instead, you opt to ignore his phone calls, driving a wedge between you and the one guy who can tell you what you want to hear that supersedes anything McDaniels may tell you. Furthermore, there's nothing McDaniels can do about the attempt to trade him. No one can. All that can be done is Jay showing up to the team meetings and workouts and showing McDaniels that he made a mistake and underestimated him.

                  So from both angles, there's something that is just off. I couldn't put my finger on it, and then it hit me.

                  The Broncos don't want Jay here, and Jay doesn't want to be here.

                  I know what you're asking yourself. "If that's the case, then why don't they just end it and be done with it? Why all the drama?" It goes back to the Dane Cook joke about how when couples break up, they can't just end it responsibly and agree it's over. They have to end things as loud and violently as possible.

                  For the Broncos, they don't want to look like the bad guys that pushed out a franchise quarterback for no logistical reason. Attitude aside, Jay is one of the top quarterbacks in the league, and by default, the world. And he's REALLY young. You can't just give up on that without a reason. I think there is truth to the Broncos perhaps souring on Jay at some point during the two week time he was at Dove Valley working with McDaniels, and now they're trying to use this situation as an excuse to push for a trade. Or maybe they just know Jay is the most valuable player on the team from a trade perspective, and if he doesn't ask for one now, sooner or later they will have to work out a new deal and pay him a lot of money. Maybe McDaniels and the new front office figures that it's more important to rebuild the defense at this stage than keep a temperamental quarterback that you constantly have to reassure and keep happy, not to mention drastically change your philosophy to fit around his skills.

                  For Cutler, he's already been lied to or misled by Bowlen on a few occasions. He lost his head coach and his offensive coordinator, and the Broncos have done absolutely nothing to show him they want to build the offense around him and his talents, but rather force him into a system for which he's not suited. They didn't really consult him on the coaching hire. They went back on their word that they would keep the offensive coaches intact. However, he comes into Dove Valley, meets with McDaniels, becomes excited at the prospect of what he may be able to do in his (McDaniels' offense), so he thinks there might be hope. Then the ball drops, and it's revealed that McDaniels was involved in a trade discussion to bring in his former guy from New England. This is the straw that broke the camel's back. Rather than look at the situation more logically and calmly, Cutler goes on the offensive, calling every media outlet he can, convinced that he was almost traded and that he still will be traded. The Broncos attempt (albeit half-heartedly) to convince him otherwise but Cutler fortifies his relationship with his agent, who furthers Cutler's paranoia and convinces his client that the Broncos are firmly against him, preventing Cutler from having direct contact with McDaniels alone and leaking more and more information to the media about the trade that never was.

                  So in the end, it's a failed Las Vegas marriage. Cutler was never the right fit for McDaniels, and McDaniels was never the right fit for Cutler. At some point, both sides realized this, and rather than understand the situation and maturely coming to a divorce, they decided to play the court of public opinion and get the fans and media on their respective sides.

                  In the end, both sides are losers, and we fans suffer for it the most.
                  Sir, Great Post. Dead on. I can't understand why people can't see it. THEY DO NOT WANT Cutler. I've said it since day one. They want a do what I tell you to do QB, not a gunslinger. It's as simple as that. The moment McPatriot get a QB of that kind (he's working on it night and day, I guarantee you), they'll trade him. That's if the trade isn't in the works already. And Cutler, crybaby or not, is not going to fit in that kind of system. I would be like telling Elway, Marino, or Farve to play hold back ball every game. Not going to happen. Denver's gunslinging QB days are over for the forseeable future. Welcome to Patriots football.

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                  • Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
                    I agree. Look at what we could get with the 5th and 12th overall pick in the draft. we have a very real chance at BJ and Rey (using 1 st names with these two, easier spelling haha) That would go a long way in setting up out defence. having Brady QUINN here, who I don't like, but is familiar with the new system would work. he might even turn out OK.

                    I LOVE watching Cutler play. I really havn't seen someone as funto watch since Elway left the league. His whining really geets to me though.

                    Hopefully he grows up, The new coach does well, and we carry on.

                    The draft pick and Quinn is aweful tempting though, consider who is out there to pick up.
                    no cuz then we'd be reaching at two spots.....i'd rather take orakpo and hope that bj drops to 12.

                    and as for the poll, NONE of those are even close to cutler's value imo. my favorite is the quinn one, but the browns have to through in AT LEAST their second pick.
                    disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

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                    • I'd give my left nut for him to be here. Metaphorically speaking of course.

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                      • Originally posted by JHoward View Post
                        Wow Mindfield, were you ever right with that comment you made (bolded above). In a way I truly hope this whole thing blows up in the faces of Bowlen and McDuck. If we're losers next season I hope every fan boos and leaves the stadium early. How in the world do you run off the franchise QB? This whole situation is absurd! Pat and Josh boy need to swallow their pride and arrogance and realize whats happening to the Denver Broncos.
                        Yep, it's a sad deal.

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                        • haha yeah ever fan chips in 2 bucks for cutler and we're more then set. unfortunately cutler doesn't want money, he just wants out at this point.
                          disclaimer: if the above post appears to contain outrageously illogical content, ITS PROBABLY SARCASM

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                          • Originally posted by EddieRoyalFan View Post
                            I'd give my left nut for him to be here. Metaphorically speaking of course.
                            careful, I made that bet once and now I'm known in some circles as One Ball Bob.
                            I'm done with this team until they're done with Josh.

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                            • I blame Bowlen for all this crap - fired Shanny and hired McIdiot. Bates soon bailed. If I was Jay, I wouldn't want to be here either. Jay's a pro bowl QB who's being treated no respect. McIdiot learned deception and dishonesty from the very best - "BellyCheat". How in the world can McIdiot be trusted?

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                              • Jay, please go to the workouts ASAP, not for you, not for the team, but for us!

                                Your fans do not want to see you go! Suck it up and be the bigger man. Go into camp and show them that they would be idiots to trade you away.

                                PLEASE!
                                Superbowl 50 Champs!

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