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  • So now Orton has to deliver yards after the catch for his receivers
    "(Touchdowns) are the goal," Orton said. "You can run for as many yards as you want, throw for as many yards as you want, but you have to convert to seven points. I think we're going to be explosive, be dynamic, be versatile."

    "Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," - Kyle Orton

    Kyle Orton Army member #83 :logo: :smug:

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    • Hi guys Pats fan here.

      I read through the first 3 pages or so of this thread and a lot of you made comments about both Orton and Cutler not having a great long ball.

      Guess what, that was one of the biggest criticisms of Tom Brady his first few years. The point where that really started to improve was after McDaniels became the Pats QB coach in 2004. There is no question Brady was working to improve that before Josh took over as his position coach, but if memory serves me well it seems that that part of his game improved dramatically in 2005 and 06 to the point where he is one of the best there is at long balls now. Of course Moss helped with that too but Randy wasn't picked up until 07.

      For what its worth Orton sounds like an almost ideal QB for the system McDaniels is bringing you. A gunslinger like Cutler would not likely succeed but the guy who can calmly make his reads and hit the open man should be extremely successful, and that's what the Bears fans seem to think of him. After all, Brady's favorite receiver is always (drum roll) the open man.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by psychobear View Post
        The Bears ran the WCO... Orton's recievers didn't get a lot of YAC. I'm saying that when he was in a system built for it, this is one thing he didn't deliver. Of coarse that definitely means my football knowledge is sketchy though... the next thing you will probably attack is my grammer... such as puting AND at the beginning of a sentance. Then again...
        Maybe thats because you have the most pathetic receiving core in the league. You failed to address any of my points so like I said, Im done arguing.

        LOL, you bash people for attacking other people's grammar, yet you correct mine in the next sentence.

        Oh by the way you spelled grammar wrong
        Last edited by Den615; 04-12-2009, 06:49 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by cutler7624 View Post
          Thanks for the info

          We won't be missing the long ball because Cutler has the same problem as Orton. He can't hit guys in stride on the deep ball.
          come on man you cant bag on cutlers arm. the guy can throw a pretty pass.
          im going to miss him next season for sure. im just hoping orton can win us some games. and i hope cutler bombs it next year and only wins 5 games. if that happends looks like denvers getting the first pick next year :go:
          Why I'd rather have McD over Shany.

          Plain and Simple.

          McD- A coach that can turn a 6th round QB
          Into a Franchise QB ( Tom Brady)

          Shany- A coach that can turn a 6th RB
          Into a Franchise RB( Terrell Davis):salute!:
          I love you tho TD

          Comment


          • Originally posted by psychobear View Post
            Hi guys,

            I'm sure what I had wrote in a few threads here got buried amongst the initial excitement of the trade. I am going to break it down for you. I went to Purdue... so I followed everything he did there. I am a Bears fan... so I followed everything he did there.

            So first of all... college. Orton was the frontrunner for the Hiesman right from the begining of his senior season. He had thrown something like 12 TD's and 0 INT's for a while. After he got hurt... those numbers weren't nearly as good. In college, his reciever now leads all recievers in catches for NCAA. It's the record... and this reciever was never drafted (and failed to make the panther's who picked him up after the draft). However, his deep ball even in college lacked accuracy.

            Now... on to the pro's. He got thrust into action when Grossman got hurt in preseason. He was thrown into the action even though everyone knew he wasn't ready for the NFL. He did fairly well... then had a terrible game against the bungles. After that... the handcuffs were slapped on and slapped on hard. Ron Turner went public and said he stripped down the playbook to about 1/4th of what it previously was. He was deemed the caretaker of the offense while playing with the best defense in football. He filled that role decently... and got a pretty good winning record. No Bears fan ever mistakes his record that year as being a result of how he played. Muhammad threw him under the bus on monday night football after a play where he thought he was open (but clearly wasn't after review). Grossman said he was healthy and Orton was yanked... not to see action for a while.

            Through all of this Orton was a class act. He worked hard to improve his game from his terrible rookie numbers. When it became clear that Grossman wasn't the answer (and they gave him every opportunity to show he could be the guy) then Orton got some playing time in 2007 after Griese got hurt. He played well enough that he earned the right to compete for the starting spot.

            Last year he won that battle. It's no big feat but he really played very very well until he was hurt. I showed that at the same pace as before he was hurt he would have 3800 yards, 24 TD's and something like 12 picks with a 89 QB rating and 62% completion percentage. Don't say he had worse weapons than in Denver... he had DIFFERENT weapons. The primary one was our RB, the next were our 2 TE's... then we had WR's. It actually played to his strengths very well... making good presnap reads and picking defenses apart in the short to mid range game. Make no mistake about it though... his long game still struggles.

            Now... to clarify this... Orton has an incredibly strong arm. He probably has one of the stronger arms in the NFL. He can make a long pass... but that pass will be on a rope. On long passes that is pretty dangerous because he isn't dropping it into a spot. The entire distance to the reciever has to be pretty much open. He isn't going to drop anything in over someone's shoulder. He can throw a jump ball on a rope though (one reason our TE Olsen put up some good numbers).

            Orton isn't mobile at all but he does have good pocket presence. He will make those quick movements to avoid a sack... reset... and then throw a strike. The guy has ice in his veins... he is very cool under pressure. That is the case for if the game situation has a lot of pressure on him and it's the case if he is getting blitzed.

            So are you getting a guy you can win with? Yes... the guy doesn't lose a lot of games. One thign fans in Chicago know is bad QB play... and Orton isn't bad. To an extent he can help your defense because he can keep them rested... and not put them in difficult situations. Bradon Marshall is exactly the type of reciever I wanted Chicago to get for him... he can get those jump balls.

            What you may find interesting is how he is going to effect the Bronco's team. I think, first of all, kiss YAC goodbye. Kyle is accurate but he has been taught from the beginning of his career and in Chicago to take care of the ball. That means.. .he throws away from the defense and expects the reciever to make a play (and if he doesn't then the defense doesn't get a pick). That also means that once they get the ball they usually arn't in great position to run after the catch. Second... you will not be a wide open offense anymore. Safeties will move up into the box and dare Kyle to throw. this means the running game will struggle even more... and more than likely those underneath passes that he loves won't result in a big play (see above about YAC AND having more players waiting to make the play. What you should also see (you would hope) is better defensive play. He'll give them a long field to defend... and some good breaks on the bench.

            Some things Kyle won't do for you...
            Kyle won't win a shootout.
            Kyle won't put up big numbers.
            Kyle won't turn the ball over.
            Kyle won't give you miracle comebacks.

            Some things Kyle will do for you...
            Kyle will take care of the ball.
            Kyle will extend plays.
            Kyle will burn time off the clock.
            Kyle will score in the redzone (it's a short field).
            Kyle will find the open man.
            Kyle will play when hurt (and eventually he will get hurt)

            If you love the long ball... kiss it goodbye. You'll see it come out every so often... but become more used to long sustained drives and 3 and outs. Kiss your running game goodbye as well.

            You can win with Kyle... if you draft well on defense. I hope he does well for you, as I said I watched his entire career.

            1 more thing... there is a glimmer of hope with Kyle. Every single year I have watched him he has greatly improved 1 part of his game. He used to lock onto recievers. Now he is a master of going through his reads. He used to actually be pretty inaccurate with the short game. Now he is extremely accurate. He used to not be able to avoid pressure. He can now scramble although he'll never be mobile. His biggest weakness right now is the long ball. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him develop that.

            There are 3 things that seperate him from Cutler.
            Cutler is mobile.
            Cutler has a great long ball.
            Cutler will work what can only be described as magic... doing things that will just make people go WOW.

            Orton may be able to develop that long ball... but the rest is something you'll never get out of him.
            Thanks for the info... Great read :thumb:
            sigpic

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Den615 View Post
              Maybe thats because you have the most pathetic receiving core in the league. You failed to address any of my points so like I said, Im done arguing.

              LOL, you bash people for attacking other people's grammar, yet you correct mine in the next sentence.

              Oh by the way you spelled grammar wrong

              1. Oh yes... I forgot... Devin Hester can't run!!!

              2. I addressed all of your points. You can say I didn't all you want... won't make it true.

              3. Yes... correcting your gramer illustrated irony.

              4. See 3.

              Not my fault you chose to try to show up the wrong guy with the "football knowledge" argument.
              Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by HarrisonHits View Post
                Hi guys Pats fan here.

                I read through the first 3 pages or so of this thread and a lot of you made comments about both Orton and Cutler not having a great long ball.

                Guess what, that was one of the biggest criticisms of Tom Brady his first few years. The point where that really started to improve was after McDaniels became the Pats QB coach in 2004. There is no question Brady was working to improve that before Josh took over as his position coach, but if memory serves me well it seems that that part of his game improved dramatically in 2005 and 06 to the point where he is one of the best there is at long balls now. Of course Moss helped with that too but Randy wasn't picked up until 07.

                For what its worth Orton sounds like an almost ideal QB for the system McDaniels is bringing you. A gunslinger like Cutler would not likely succeed but the guy who can calmly make his reads and hit the open man should be extremely successful, and that's what the Bears fans seem to think of him. After all, Brady's favorite receiver is always (drum roll) the open man.
                That's a good point. I have thought about that as well. Brady's long ball has definitely improved. You could also see the development of Cassell's long ball over the course of last year.

                I am curious to see if McDaniel's can have a similar effect on the Denver QB's.
                sigpic
                Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

                Comment


                • Interesting comments, ty for posting.

                  The Bears never bothered to develop a receiving corps nor the personnel to stretch the field. Orton can throw deep, it's his lack of mobility that should concern Bronco fans.


                  Originally posted by HarrisonHits View Post
                  Hi guys Pats fan here.

                  I read through the first 3 pages or so of this thread and a lot of you made comments about both Orton and Cutler not having a great long ball.

                  Guess what, that was one of the biggest criticisms of Tom Brady his first few years. The point where that really started to improve was after McDaniels became the Pats QB coach in 2004. There is no question Brady was working to improve that before Josh took over as his position coach, but if memory serves me well it seems that that part of his game improved dramatically in 2005 and 06 to the point where he is one of the best there is at long balls now. Of course Moss helped with that too but Randy wasn't picked up until 07.

                  For what its worth Orton sounds like an almost ideal QB for the system McDaniels is bringing you. A gunslinger like Cutler would not likely succeed but the guy who can calmly make his reads and hit the open man should be extremely successful, and that's what the Bears fans seem to think of him. After all, Brady's favorite receiver is always (drum roll) the open man.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by psychobear View Post
                    1. Oh yes... I forgot... Devin Hester can't run!!!
                    Well...

                    ...he does have a lot of trouble running routes properly. Although he seemed generally able to line up at scrimmage properly, after a lot of practice. But he continued to mess up his routes with great regularity.

                    Devin is a great runner once the ball is in his hands. But he was unable to learn how to be a WR in high school or at Miami. It's hardly surprising that he's having trouble with the position at the pro level.

                    Don't get me wrong, I love Hester - one of my 2 Bears jersey's is #23 (the other is - of course - Urlacher's). But the fact remains that he's far from a finished product as a wide receiver...
                    "That's a crap question."
                    - Kyle Orton

                    Comment


                    • we have 2 of the best young recievers in the game today. Brandon and my boy eddie. Now brandon might be gone for a few games pending nfl comish suspension. all kyle has to do is be accurate which he is 60-70 percent of the time. you throw the ball to eddie or marshall for 5-10 yards and they will pick up the next 20-30 yards. let's not forgett stokley and jabbar gafney the are great addition that can also give us extra yards. 2 good te's and jj arrington and buckhalter in the back field along with hillis and young just give them the ball and be acurate the players will do their part.


                      EDDIE ROYAL IS THE MAN

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                      • Originally posted by CutlersRightArm View Post
                        Another note... Ron Jaworski is usually a good evaluator of QB talent. Jaws said Jay Cutler was the best QB prospect among the big three (Cutler, Young, Leinart)in the '06 draft. At the time, nobody really knew much about JC but Jaws was dead on.

                        At the end of last season, Jaws said on NFL Live or Sportscenter that Kyle Orton was not a franchise QB. He said from looking at the film, Orton locked on his target too much. The great QBs like Tom Brady, know how to look off a safety, and also go through their progressions.
                        Jaworski has a vendetta against Orton. I am being serious saying that.

                        The only thing I could come up with for a reason was that Jaworski was a big believer in Grossman (which pretty much tells you Jaworski isn't right all the time.... far from it). He took issue with the Bears fans giving Grossman what he deserved.

                        So when the Bears finally dump Grossman and let Orton play.... Jaworski behaved like a little ***** trying to defend her fat girl friend by picking on somebody else.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
                          Well...

                          ...he does have a lot of trouble running routes properly. Although he seemed generally able to line up at scrimmage properly, after a lot of practice. But he continued to mess up his routes with great regularity.

                          Devin is a great runner once the ball is in his hands. But he was unable to learn how to be a WR in high school or at Miami. It's hardly surprising that he's having trouble with the position at the pro level.

                          Don't get me wrong, I love Hester - one of my 2 Bears jersey's is #23 (the other is - of course - Urlacher's). But the fact remains that he's far from a finished product as a wide receiver...
                          Hester is great when the opponent is running the opposite direction at full speed. He also is great in open field footraces.

                          But he will never be a YAC leader. Hester isn't going to break many tackles. Everybody in Chicago knows Hester has already lost a considerable portion of his speed too.

                          Regardless, he will still get behind defenses. And this is where he can do his damage. Orton didn't take advantage of this. Cutler will. Cutler is a great fit for Turner's offense. Orton is likewise for Denver.


                          That being said, Hester made a huge leap from year 1 at WR. You might as well have lined a golden retriever up at WR in year one..... the retriever might have had a better understanding of what was going on and what he was supposed to do. But Hester made huge strides the following year. Still very unfinished.
                          Last edited by Soothsayer; 04-14-2009, 02:18 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CTM View Post
                            I've watched some Highlights of him and one thing I notice is that he gets the ball out quick. This coupled with our awesome O line should equate to even less sacks and more sustained drives.
                            Less than 11 sacks with a quarterback that isn't very mobile to begin with? I don't think so.
                            John 11: 25-27

                            My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                            Thanks Snk16

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                            • What is Kyle Orton worth?

                              There seems to be a lot of Bronco fans posting lately that they are okay with Kyle Orton at the helm of their franchise. It got me thinking....if Denver traded Orton today, what would his value be on the open market?

                              Is he in Jay Cutler's league = Two 1st rounders and a 3rd?

                              Or, Matt Cassell's league = 2nd rounder and an aging LB?
                              Last edited by Boltheads; 04-19-2009, 07:52 AM. Reason: just because

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                              • He's worth the starting QB spot while we build the defense through the draft. I think other teams would offer a 3rd round pick for him.
                                sigpic

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