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  • Originally posted by turtle18 View Post
    We are revamping the Defense and taking our offense into a more conservative and effective direction rather than being risky, face-paced, and ineffective at scoring on offense.

    16th ranked Offense
    29th ranked Defense
    We were not 16th in scoring offense. You people make it seem like everything can be explained with stats and yet, you don't know the stats that you are trying to explain stuff with.

    Here are some real offensive scoring rankings, even though they include other things like FGs.

    These include offensive TD's, ALL extra points (even off defensive/special teams TD's, 2 and 1 pointers), and field goals. It does not include defensive TD's, special teams TD's, and safeties.

    1. NO - 443
    2. SD - 413
    3. NE - 404
    4. NYG - 403
    5. Car - 402
    6. Ari - 391
    7. NYJ - 381
    8. Phi - 372
    9. Atl - 365
    10. GB - 365
    11. Den - 358
    12. Ten - 351
    13. Min - 349
    14. Dal - 348
    15. Hou - 348
    16. Ind - 347
    17. Bal - 343
    18. Chi - 331
    19. Mia - 331
    20. Pit - 327
    21. TB - 319
    22. SF - 309
    23. Buf - 306
    24. Jac - 282
    25. Kan - 273
    26. Sea - 270
    27. Det - 260
    28. Was - 259
    29. STL - 226
    30. Oak - 229
    31. Cle - 214
    32. Cin - 186

    And like I said, that also includes things like FG's and the extra points from defensive and special teams TD's. Prater misses 2 less FG's and you take out the defensive extra points, and we are #9. To look even further into it, EVERY team above us has a far superior defense and/or a far superior run game to help with field position and red zone offenses.
    Last edited by jhns; 04-07-2009, 11:13 AM.

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    • We are a worse team than we were last season right now. QB is the most important position on any team, and Cutler to Orton is a significant downgrade. We did not add any real impact free agents except for maybe Dawkins. McDaniels better hit on most of his draft picks or he won't last long.

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      • Originally posted by jhns View Post
        We were not 16th in scoring offense. You people make it seem like everything can be explained with stats and yet, you don't know the stats that you are trying to explain stuff with.
        Yes, we know. We were 11th or 12th or whatever we were? Point is we weren't the juggernot on offense that most people claim or thought we were.

        NE's offense was 3rd in scoring under your statistic (with an arguably worse QB than Orton), so do you think I should be concerned, or not so concerned about McDaniels running our offense?

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        • Originally posted by iowabronco24 View Post
          Yes, we know. We were 11th or 12th or whatever we were? Point is we weren't the juggernot on offense that most people claim or thought we were.

          NE's offense was 3rd in scoring under your statistic (with an arguably worse QB than Orton), so do you think I should be concerned, or not so concerned about McDaniels running our offense?
          How is Cassell worse than Orton? They both seem pretty average to me. Also, they do the offensive rank by yards for a reason. NE's offense wasn't as good as this one last year, and their pass offense wasn't even close. They had a defense, special teams, and run game to help out. They didn't make the entire team rely on the passing game only, like this team did.

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          • Originally posted by theflammer View Post
            Ok, again you missed the point....I am not talking about Josh, I am asking how can you be excited about the Team and their Future.

            Because of what he has done ( Josh ) you keep trying to stand up for him but I promise every year before this one everyone was getting excited about the upcoming season in thier own way or because of player moves and a chance to be better.

            I don't want you to side or convince me by words of why Josh anything...

            Simple, Why will we be better by what we have done thus far and How?????
            Yeah, I did kinda miss the point. So position by position here's what I think of Josh's moves.

            QB = He did what had to be done and got a system QB he can be comfortable with

            RB = Our additions will catch well out of the backfield. And with our line blocking who knows what rushing numbers they can muster, but it won't be horrible.

            WR = Gaffney can play and is a good option for #3 or whatever.

            TE = We are already set with a good blocking/catching TE in Graham

            LB = Who knows what Davis can offer

            CB = Goodman can't do much worse that a underachieving Bly opposite Champ.

            Safety = ANYTHING IS AN UPGRADE FROM THE ONE HUNDRED SAFETIES USED LAST YEAR! Who cares if they are aging or not.

            Bottom line is McDaniels and Nolan stayed active in free agency and got players they felt could make this team better instead of insisting the defense would gel together at some unknown point like Shanahan did. The QB situation was unfortunate and may hurt this team but at least McDaniels now has more than he could wish for in draft options.

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            • Originally posted by theflammer View Post
              Ok, I was with you until you said we should do whatever we can to find a reason to support our team or leave...

              If it's our Team why do we have to find a reason to be happy or leave...

              If it's our Team we should be able to be mad at anything they do that we don't like, just like you are mad because we aren't digging around looking for reasons to be happy...

              So tell us, After all your Digging, what did you find that made you feel so happy - Maybe we can dig where you did
              Allow me to clarify my original post.

              I never said I was happy. Happy is definantly not the word I would choose to describe my feelings. Apprehensive is a better word.

              As for the leaving part. It's not a matter of be happy or leave. As I previously stated everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint. What I said was that when someone gives up as a fan and quits it's time for them to leave. That in no way is directed at anyone in specific. It's more of a general statement of fact. It might have been easier to just say, "Don't give up on your team." but that of course would not hold the same meaning.

              Anyone who truely cares about this team has every reason to question recent events, but as I also stated previously it is not up to the fanbase to right the wrongs of the front office. Hoping everything will work out is not the same as controling the outcome. Also beleiving we will be alright doesn't make a person a homer. It can always be worse than it seems. We could, after all, be the 2008 Detroit Lions.
              Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

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              • Originally posted by oldster View Post
                That was mediocre in scoring.
                I would rather have an average QB who puts up points in the red zone then a flashy passer who cant get it done under pressure.

                In all honesty when all is said and done, the offense will be more productive point wise with Orton then Cutler.

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                • Originally posted by rst08tierney View Post
                  I would rather have an average QB who puts up points in the red zone then a flashy passer who cant get it done under pressure.
                  Do you mind showing me that stat of red-zone interceptions? You all claim he does it all the time, but I don't think any of you have looked at the stats. I'm pretty sure he only had like 3-4 red zone INT's last season. If you don't want to, that is fine. I can't until about 5 though, so I will be bumping this with the exact stats around that time.

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                  • Originally posted by jhns View Post
                    How is Cassell worse than Orton? They both seem pretty average to me. Also, they do the offensive rank by yards for a reason. NE's offense wasn't as good as this one last year, and their pass offense wasn't even close. They had a defense, special teams, and run game to help out. They didn't make the entire team rely on the passing game only, like this team did.
                    I said arguably worse, as I think you can make pretty good arguments both ways. Either way, thats not really the point. The point is exactly what you said, and that is that they are both about the same, whether that is average or not is kind of uncertain at this point in their careers. Either way, McD has proven he can be VERY productive calling an offense with an "average" QB, and pretty good offense and special teams. I wouldn't necessarily say NE's defense was spectacular, but they were solid nonetheless. Ya, it may take some time for McD and Nolan to rebuild the special teams and defense, but it was not there fault that Shanny left them with such suck in both categories.

                    I've never said that McD WILL succeed, I just THINK he will succeed. Either way I just think the guy deserves a chance to rebuild the defense and special teams before anybody can call him a bad head coach. Any1 can spin the stats for or against him, either way I think he's proven he can call call and run a great offense, therefore, I don't think I should be too concerned about the state of our offense at the moment.

                    Oh, and just because you have a great defense and special teams doesn't mean your still going to have the 3rd best scoring offense in the game, you still need to do your job, move the ball down the field, and punch it into the endzone, and McD has also proven he can get his offenses to do that, and pretty well i might add.

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                    • Oh and btw Jhns, I'm not attacking you, I'm just stating why I don't think I should be too concerned about our offense. Many people lately have said how our offense is going to be significantly worse, I just don't see where they are getting the stats to support those conclusions. Ya, Orton had worse stats than Cutler, but he did have pretty good stats considering the offense he played in, and the offensive talent around him.

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                      • Originally posted by iowabronco24 View Post
                        Oh, and just because you have a great defense and special teams doesn't mean your still going to have the 3rd best scoring offense in the game, you still need to do your job, move the ball down the field, and punch it into the endzone, and McD has also proven he can get his offenses to do that, and pretty well i might add.
                        That part I do agree with. I'm just saying that the difference is still there. Every team that scored more points than us had a much better run game and defense. There is a reason for that.

                        I'm also not saying McDaniels won't have a good offense going here. I'm saying that it would have been far better with Cutler than with Orton or Simms.

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                        • Looking at the offensive scheme the Patriots put on the field the last 3 years under McDaniels we could have a scheme that's half as productive as the Pats had and we would still be more successful than 2/3 of the teams in the NFL.

                          Say what you will about Orton, but the man knows what it takes to win games. He should thrive behind a line that gives him some protection unlike what he had to work with in Chicago. He is also throwing to a receiving core that rivals the best in the league. If we clean up our Defense we can be successful. This is of course no prediction. We still have to get out on the field and play.
                          Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

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                          • well... we got a proven nfl starter qb + 2 first round picks and a 3rd round pick for an immature baby. i don't know how we DIDN'T get better. 4 players for the price of one? i don't know how well xanders can draft but if he has a good eye for talent, that could essentially be 4 good players in exchange for one good crybaby.

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                            • I am going to, simply, consider this a rebilding year.........
                              For my own sanity !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                              • So explain to us on paper HOW are we better now????

                                Since when are the games played on paper?
                                The Bronco's are a better team now(Orton + pics) than, at the end of last season. Once the Cutler ball washers wake up, then it will be clear. Orton has enough talent, and is coachable.

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