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Do Bears fans know Kyle Orton? Jay Cutler?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by KyleFan View Post
    At the Bye last year, Cutler and Orton had almost identical stats, other than Orton's TD to INT stats being better. Both teams were 4-3. In all three Bears losses, the Bears had leads mid-way through the fourth quarter and lost them all. The circus catch you refer to was a perfectly thrown ball in the corner of the end zone to a receiver who was benched most of the year. This was at the end of a 90-yard drive.

    In Chicago the biggest concern about the Bears is the defense. It continually gave up big plays and leads late in the game. Look at the defense last year...Urlacher is old, the safeties can't cover anyone and runners run straight up the middle. They also aren't able to put any pressure on the QB.
    I wouldn't dispute your evaluation of the Bears defenders, since you know them better than me. However, it would appear from this (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats) that the Bears were not as bad as their 21st ranking would suggest.

    Drives - 201 (highest in the league)
    Average starting field position - 31.18 (25th in the league)
    Yards per drive - 25.75 (6th best in the league)
    Points per drive - 1.68 (9th best in the league)
    TDs per drive - .184 (12th best in the league)
    Punts per drive - .403 (15th best in the league)
    Turnovers per drive - .144 (12th best in the league)
    INTs per drive - .109 (6th best in the league)
    Fum per drive - .035 (24th in the league)

    This indicates that the Bears defense was asked to do a lot every week - not only defend against the most number of drives in the league, but also do so from the one of the worst starting field-position in the league. And they responded pretty well, looking above average to good in most categories except in fumbles forced.
    Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by the-shuffler
      LOL, You Orton guys will throw anyone not named Orton under the Bus. The Bears Defense, Hester, Olsen... etc. how many times did I see a Wide Open Devin Hester have to slow or turn around into double coverage because of Ortons poorly thrown balls?....

      You Orton guys will throw anyone under the bus not named Orton. Have fun with your new Team.
      So Devin always ran all of his routes to perfection and was always exactly where he was supposed to be on the field, huh? I seem to remember occasionally teammates having to grab Hester's arm and drag him to his proper position on scrimmage before a snap! He was lining up wrong!

      I love Hester to death (I have a Hester jersey and an Urlacher), but he's not a finished product as a wide receiver. There's a helluva lot more to the position than just running really, really fast. Devin is still trying to learn how to be a good WR on the NFL level - something he never mastered in high school or at Miami.

      And if Kyle's throws were so inaccurate, then why did defenders repeatedly commit blatant pass interference on Hester? Was it because Orton was actually placing the ball well and it was the only way they could prevent Hester from catching it and breaking off a huge play?

      Go back to the Bears boards, shuffler. The Broncos fans don't need angry Sexy Rexy fanboys feeding them lies about the QB who ran your boy Grossman out of town...
      "That's a crap question."
      - Kyle Orton

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      • #93
        Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
        So Devin always ran all of his routes to perfection and was always exactly where he was supposed to be on the field, huh? I seem to remember occasionally teammates having to grab Hester's arm and drag him to his proper position on scrimmage before a snap! He was lining up wrong!

        I love Hester to death (I have a Hester jersey and an Urlacher), but he's not a finished product as a wide receiver. There's a helluva lot more to the position than just running really, really fast. Devin is still trying to learn how to be a good WR on the NFL level - something he never mastered in high school or at Miami.

        And if Kyle's throws were so inaccurate, then why did defenders repeatedly commit blatant pass interference on Hester? Was it because Orton was actually placing the ball well and it was the only way they could prevent Hester from catching it and breaking off a huge play?

        Go back to the Bears boards, shuffler. The Broncos fans don't need angry Sexy Rexy fanboys feeding them lies about the QB who ran your boy Grossman out of town...
        Yeah... thats right it was Ortons intention all along to throw the ball at the defenders back while they were trying to catch up to Devin Hester. That way, when Devin has to stop and turn around, the defender would run right into Hester drawing the Pass interference call.... Its pure genius!

        I suppose you are referring to the New Orleans game? The GAME where Devin Consistantly burned coverage and was GROSSLY underthrown 3 times.

        If Devin is such a terrible receiver why would the defender bother with the "Blatent Pass interference calls"... Oh thats right, its because they didnt know that Devin was going to stop and turn around for a horribly underthrown ball.

        Seriously, is that your definition of an accurate Pass? Devin has his Defenders beat by 5 yards and has to slow/stop into coverage and turn around for the ball.
        Last edited by the-shuffler; 04-17-2009, 12:10 PM.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
          First off, this is not knocking Bears fans. I see them calling Kyle Orton like they see him. I don't have a problem with that. But, do they know what Kyle Orton can do? Or do they know what Kyle Orton can do with a bad O-line, bad receivers, bad coaching, and less-than-stellar run game. The reason I say bad coaching is because Lovie Smith is a very very conservative coach, especially offensively. Their offensive coaches are horrible. Can anyone name for me anyone that they have developed as a player offensively? Who is a mid-round pick that came in and has developed into anything? To me, that is a mark of a good coach. Can you take talent and develop them into something?

          I don't know that we know what we have in Kyle Orton. Here's what I want to watch for. Kyle Orton booming, while Jay Cutler busts. Remember when a Pro Bowl caliber Muhsin Muhammad went to Chicago? He dropped off of the map. Could the same thing happen to Jay Cutler?
          Bernard Berrian (3rd Round), Justin Gage (4th or 5th i forget), Josh Beekman (4th round). Thomas Jones was a first round bust until he came to Chicago.

          Muhammad was a one year wonder. He has made the probowl once in his career, was a locker room cancer, and dropped way too many passes. He dropped off the map because he just wasn't that good. He was the number 1 in Chicago, and now he's back in Carolina as the number 2.

          Orton is a smart QB with a powerful arm, but his accuracy is inconsistent. He racked up most of his stats against the Lions(x2) and the Rams. I liked him, and thought he had a lot of potential. My biggest worry is that he'll run head first into some hits that will make you cringe. He did it just about every week in Chicago. He's got all the tools minus the accuracy to be a good pocket passer. I would count him as an asset to your team. He stepped up big in the 4th quarter last year. He should do well in Denver, but not 30 points a game good, which you'll need to score every game to win. You better get some good defensive players with your first 5 picks.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by the-shuffler View Post
            Hmm, you actually sound more like an scorned Orton fan than a Bronco's fan. Yards against a defense only tell part of the story. Yes the 08 Bears D wasnt great, but they are still good. The stats below include some terrible games by Orton. For instance a game against Green Bay where Orton Managed to Cross midfield 1 whole time in the entire game.

            Or the Minnesota game where Orton threw 3 INTs in 4 drives, while the Bears were trailing 17-14(ending in a blow out)

            Yards Per game
            21st - Bears
            29th - Broncos

            Points against
            16th - Bears
            30th - Broncos

            Interceptions
            3rd - Bears
            31st - Broncos

            Fumble Recoveries
            16th - Bears
            26th - Broncos
            I don't know why you did that. My point wasn't that the Bronco defense was better than the Bear defense, because it isn't. My point is that the Bears defense isn't what it was back in 2006. The Bears defense can't be relied on to keep teams at 14 points or less per game.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by wannabe View Post
              Bernard Berrian (3rd Round), Justin Gage (4th or 5th i forget), Josh Beekman (4th round). Thomas Jones was a first round bust until he came to Chicago.

              Muhammad was a one year wonder. He has made the probowl once in his career, was a locker room cancer, and dropped way too many passes. He dropped off the map because he just wasn't that good. He was the number 1 in Chicago, and now he's back in Carolina as the number 2.

              Orton is a smart QB with a powerful arm, but his accuracy is inconsistent. He racked up most of his stats against the Lions(x2) and the Rams. I liked him, and thought he had a lot of potential. My biggest worry is that he'll run head first into some hits that will make you cringe. He did it just about every week in Chicago. He's got all the tools minus the accuracy to be a good pocket passer. I would count him as an asset to your team. He stepped up big in the 4th quarter last year. He should do well in Denver, but not 30 points a game good, which you'll need to score every game to win. You better get some good defensive players with your first 5 picks.
              First off, thanks for the great post.

              I have to say, though, you're just proving my point with Berrian, Gage, and Beekman. Maybe I could give you Berrian, but Gage never became anything until he went to Tennessee. You might as well throw Bobby Wade's name in there. As far as Thomas Jones, should we give credit to Terry Shea for developing him? Maybe John Gruden from when Jones was in Tampa.

              My point with Muhammad is that he showed what he was capable of, and being the only legitimate target of the Chicago Bears with maybe the exception of Berrian, it's disturbing how little production the Bears got out of him. Carolina got more out of him as the number 2 option and he's 3 years older.

              I completely agree with your assessment of Orton. And yes, someone does need to teach him to slide for crying out loud. But, when I look at Orton, I see some potentially fixable things that could translate into a better QB than he has been. What I love is even when everything was crumbling around him, he knew where to go with the football. A lot of times it was an incompletion because he was anticipating the route being open a little quicker than it was, but all QBs do that when they have a defender in their face. The point is that he was anticipating the right route getting open. Give him more time, and it has a good shot of being a completion. Even if a lot of his reads didn't result in a completion, I knew what he was trying to do as opposed to say, Rex Grossman and dare I say Jay Cutler, where I'm wondering what he was even looking at.

              I completely agree that Orton isn't a guy who's going to win games by himself. And if anyone needs to score 30 points a game, it's not going to happen. I don't care if it's Manning or Brady. You can't count on them to do that. I'm expecting a 7 and 9 record this year. To me that would be a successful season, especially with our D, and a new system. It could realistically be worse than that, but I have to have some faith. :go:

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