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  • I Think We Will Be Surprised.....

    I have seen a few postings by fans of other teams coming in to say that we will be surprised by what Orton will do here. They cite our Pro Bowl OL and our receivers like Marshall, Stokely, Royal. I for one agree.

    What I do not like are the negative people who then post saying that Orton is bunk and Cutler IS a franchise QB and we will have a poor to terrible year without Cutler.

    Since I love to post history lessons, let me give the negatives a quick history lesson.

    In 1972, coming off another p*ss poor season under Lou Saban, new Broncos Coach John Ralston traded with the Houston Oilers for an often injured Charley Johnson. Fans whined and moaned about the trade mostly because Ralston traded our supposed "franchise" QB Don Horn. Fans railed that Horn was held back by Saban and just needed the offense to be opened up to fit his skills. Denver had a young, talented superstar to be wide receiver in Dwight Harrison who Ralston traded for an underachieving wideout named Haven Moses from Buffalo.

    If you truly are a Broncos fan, you know what happened from there.

    In 1977 the Broncos under new coach Robert "Red" Miller (also a former Offensive Co-Ordinator from New England) traded Steve Ramsey and a 4th round pick for Craig Morton. I remember hearing the radio talk shows being livid that Denver gave up so much for Morton who was labeled a "statue" who would be killed behind Denver's poor OL. He was also labeled a "loser" because the NY Giants were the worst team in football at the time, and Morton was their QB.

    Once again, if you are truly a Broncos fan, you know what happened.

    My point here being this. Give it a chance. Lightning struck twice before and may just do so again. Orton is coming into a situation that the previous two mentioned QB's would have had wet dreams of stepping into. An All-Pro OL and a set of Pro Bowl type receivers.

    Would you rather have a Steve Ramsey, Steve Tensi, Matt Robinson type of QB to bank the season on?
    "Those are my principals... if you don't like them, well, I have others" - Groucho Marx

    "Having a Hell of a time my dear, wish you were here" - Alice Cooper

  • #2
    In 1972, coming off another p*ss poor season under Lou Saban, new Broncos Coach John Ralston traded with the Houston Oilers for an often injured Charley Johnson. Fans whined and moaned about the trade mostly because Ralston traded our supposed "franchise" QB Don Horn. Fans railed that Horn was held back by Saban and just needed the offense to be opened up to fit his skills. Denver had a young, talented superstar to be wide receiver in Dwight Harrison who Ralston traded for an underachieving wideout named Haven Moses from Buffalo.

    If you truly are a Broncos fan, you know what happened from there.

    In 1977 the Broncos under new coach Robert "Red" Miller (also a former Offensive Co-Ordinator from New England) traded Steve Ramsey and a 4th round pick for Craig Morton. I remember hearing the radio talk shows being livid that Denver gave up so much for Morton who was labeled a "statue" who would be killed behind Denver's poor OL. He was also labeled a "loser" because the NY Giants were the worst team in football at the time, and Morton was their QB.

    Once again, if you are truly a Broncos fan, you know what happened.

    My point here being this. Give it a chance. Lightning struck twice before and may just do so again. Orton is coming into a situation that the previous two mentioned QB's would have had wet dreams of stepping into. An All-Pro OL and a set of Pro Bowl type receivers.

    Would you rather have a Steve Ramsey, Steve Tensi, Matt Robinson type of QB to bank the season on?
    I TOTALLY AGREE! M&M.....loved those days!
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by IgorBStrange View Post
      I have seen a few postings by fans of other teams coming in to say that we will be surprised by what Orton will do here. They cite our Pro Bowl OL and our receivers like Marshall, Stokely, Royal. I for one agree.

      What I do not like are the negative people who then post saying that Orton is bunk and Cutler IS a franchise QB and we will have a poor to terrible year without Cutler.

      Since I love to post history lessons, let me give the negatives a quick history lesson.

      In 1972, coming off another p*ss poor season under Lou Saban, new Broncos Coach John Ralston traded with the Houston Oilers for an often injured Charley Johnson. Fans whined and moaned about the trade mostly because Ralston traded our supposed "franchise" QB Don Horn. Fans railed that Horn was held back by Saban and just needed the offense to be opened up to fit his skills. Denver had a young, talented superstar to be wide receiver in Dwight Harrison who Ralston traded for an underachieving wideout named Haven Moses from Buffalo.

      If you truly are a Broncos fan, you know what happened from there.

      In 1977 the Broncos under new coach Robert "Red" Miller (also a former Offensive Co-Ordinator from New England) traded Steve Ramsey and a 4th round pick for Craig Morton. I remember hearing the radio talk shows being livid that Denver gave up so much for Morton who was labeled a "statue" who would be killed behind Denver's poor OL. He was also labeled a "loser" because the NY Giants were the worst team in football at the time, and Morton was their QB.

      Once again, if you are truly a Broncos fan, you know what happened.

      My point here being this. Give it a chance. Lightning struck twice before and may just do so again. Orton is coming into a situation that the previous two mentioned QB's would have had wet dreams of stepping into. An All-Pro OL and a set of Pro Bowl type receivers.

      Would you rather have a Steve Ramsey, Steve Tensi, Matt Robinson type of QB to bank the season on?
      I am trully a Broncos fan...however, I wasn't born in 1977. Care to enlighten those of us who have only been fans for 22 years instead of 31?
      sigpic

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      • #4
        you can try to spin this anyway you want. those trades were nothing like the cutler trade. bottom line is when you have a franchise QB like Cutler you dont trade him. McDaniels is the joke of the league because of this trade...I know your a big broncos fan, as am I but you cant have those type of blinders on. You have to be realistic about this trade and the fact that this coach has no idea what he is doing and right now is just destroying the team. He was a mistake hire.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          You seem to have left out the 1983 Colts who traded away a Franchise quarterback to the Denver Broncos in exchange for some draft picks. Little did Colts fans know that until Peyton Manning was drafted, the team would experience mediocre quarterback play for the next 14 seasons. That also includes striking out on quarterback Jeff George as their number one pick.

          I think your comparison to Don Horn is irrelevant to the situation at hand. Jay Cutler, last year, threw for more yards and touchdowns than Horn threw in his 8 year career (4 active, 4 non-active). Not only that, but Horn bought his ticket out of Denver because he threw 3 touchdowns as opposed to 14 interceptions during his one season stint in Denver.

          Don't get me wrong, I'm still a Bronco fan, but Pat Bowlen better hope that:
          1) Josh McDaniels knows exactly what he's doing
          2) The team is shaped to fit McDaniels system quickly
          3) The defense improves greatly this season
          4) Jay Cutler shows that he is indeed an immature and overrated player in Chicago
          5) Chicago performs poorly and increases the value of the 2009 first round draft pick acquired from Chicago

          I see it like this, we just traded away a franchise quarterback in his prime, for wishes and hopes. As for the odds of these things happening, you know the saying, wish in one hand and ____ in the other and see which one fills up first.

          Comment


          • #6
            Lol i love the comparison to craig morton
            2016 Draft: http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...aft-Watch-list

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            • #7
              Originally posted by broncobuss View Post
              you can try to spin this anyway you want. those trades were nothing like the cutler trade. bottom line is when you have a franchise QB like Cutler you dont trade him. McDaniels is the joke of the league because of this trade...I know your a big broncos fan, as am I but you cant have those type of blinders on. You have to be realistic about this trade and the fact that this coach has no idea what he is doing and right now is just destroying the team. He was a mistake hire.
              Again, Jay wanted to be traded.I will at least give Josh a season full of games before making any conclusions on his success or failure.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by broncobuss View Post
                you can try to spin this anyway you want. those trades were nothing like the cutler trade. bottom line is when you have a franchise QB like Cutler you dont trade him. McDaniels is the joke of the league because of this trade...I know your a big broncos fan, as am I but you cant have those type of blinders on. You have to be realistic about this trade and the fact that this coach has no idea what he is doing and right now is just destroying the team. He was a mistake hire.
                Quite the contrary. Not only is McDaniels not the joke of the league, but most teams seem to think we improved over all. Much will depend on the Patriots system and whether Orton (who played well the only two times I watched him play) can play well with Pro Bowl quality receivers and with a line that gives him time to set up and throw.

                The rest depends on how much we can improve our defense between now and the beginning of the season. There is no doubt that a 3-4 defense is capable of being more effective in terms of changing looks on the opposing quarterbacks and having more possibilities to get a pass rush, but we don't know yet if we are going to have the personnel to play the 3-4 well.

                I also expect that between the new players and the new system, we will start slow and have to build as the season goes on. I don't expect the playoffs this year, but it's possible. Look at the differences the Dolphins made in one case.

                Now, what will be our final record? Don't know, but I'm expecting again to be around 7-9 or 8-8, so if we finish better than that, I'm happy. If we finish worse than that, then I'm disappointed but I won't lay the blame on Cutler's loss until I watch the games. If we are getting the ball in the end zone better than Cutler and company did (remember, number 2 in the NFL based on yards, mostly between the 20's, not points scored) and our defense still sucks, then I am not the least phased by losing the Kid Who Thought He Was More Important Than The Team..
                You Tell 'em Justice is coming. You tell 'em I'M coming!sigpic

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                • #9
                  Let's stop trying to pin point what makes a "true" Bronco fan. This term and arguement is just pointless, pointing fingers at best. The bottom line is anyone has the right to feel the way they feel, and express those feelings if they want to. I for one am willing to give McDaniels a chance, after all I feel like he's a young coach headed in the right direction. Sure you can turn around and say that all this is his fault, but where does that leave us? Same position were in now. So we have a choice, to be optimistic or pesimistic, and that is our choice as fans. You really have no right to call someone out for being pesimistic for our choices and our future. Just the same for those being optimistic. It's all irrelevant and speculation. If you want to express your thoughts, go for it, but do it for the right reasons, and not to turn around and say "I told you so!".

                  :go: :go:

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                  • #10
                    I live in Florida and am friends with a bunch of Jags fans, Dolfans, ahh some bucs, and Panthers fans. After the trade and the FA pick ups they all say that he looks to be pointing the team in the right direction....especially after the trade. One of my Dolphin friends said, "I can't believe you guys got a madden like trade for one player." I know its hard to watch a player be groomed for 3 years and then off to the Pro Bowl, but be a fan of your team, support the Coach, Owner, and the teams players. It is McDaniels first year as a Coach, he is stubborn, egotistical, and thinks his way is the best way...sounds like most the winners I know...especially Shanny. Give him a shot. Go Broncos!
                    New England Patriots GM

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EDavis View Post
                      You seem to have left out the 1983 Colts who traded away a Franchise quarterback to the Denver Broncos in exchange for some draft picks. Little did Colts fans know that until Peyton Manning was drafted, the team would experience mediocre quarterback play for the next 14 seasons. That also includes striking out on quarterback Jeff George as their number one pick.

                      I think your comparison to Don Horn is irrelevant to the situation at hand. Jay Cutler, last year, threw for more yards and touchdowns than Horn threw in his 8 year career (4 active, 4 non-active). Not only that, but Horn bought his ticket out of Denver because he threw 3 touchdowns as opposed to 14 interceptions during his one season stint in Denver.

                      Don't get me wrong, I'm still a Bronco fan, but Pat Bowlen better hope that:
                      1) Josh McDaniels knows exactly what he's doing
                      2) The team is shaped to fit McDaniels system quickly
                      3) The defense improves greatly this season
                      4) Jay Cutler shows that he is indeed an immature and overrated player in Chicago
                      5) Chicago performs poorly and increases the value of the 2009 first round draft pick acquired from Chicago

                      I see it like this, we just traded away a franchise quarterback in his prime, for wishes and hopes. As for the odds of these things happening, you know the saying, wish in one hand and ____ in the other and see which one fills up first.
                      Er people seem to keep forgetting that they had no choice to trade him (elway). He wouldve played baseball if they had kept him and they would have gotten nothing in return. Similar to Cutler situation we were forced to trade him because he wanted to be traded. How can you guys not understand this? Would you rather get nothing for a qb or something? You cannot force a player to play even if they are under contract.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by broncofanatik View Post
                        Er people seem to keep forgetting that they had no choice to trade him (elway). He wouldve played baseball if they had kept him and they would have gotten nothing in return. Similar to Cutler situation we were forced to trade him because he wanted to be traded. How can you guys not understand this? Would you rather get nothing for a qb or something? You cannot force a player to play even if they are under contract.
                        THey could have forced him to play. He wouldn't have been able to live otherwise. For one, he said he was showing up in April, so they could have waited to see, gathered offeres, let people keep bidding, and still known before the draft if he was going to show up. Anyways, soon it turns into a daily fine for Cutler to not be at team events. Considering he wasn't making much next season, he couldn't have held out for very long. He also couldn't go anywhere else because you actually have to play for years to come off the contract.

                        It isn't that they traded Cutler, although that is a huge part of it. It is the way the entire situation was handled from beginning to end that left a lot to be desired.

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                        • #13
                          McDaniels loved what he saw in Orton, which is why the trade was made. The trade was made now so the new Qb could come into the organization and begin learning the system. Mcdaniels wasn't about to thrwo the season away because of some QB who wanted nothing to do with the Denver Broncos organization.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                            McDaniels loved what he saw in Orton, which is why the trade was made. The trade was made now so the new Qb could come into the organization and begin learning the system. Mcdaniels wasn't about to thrwo the season away because of some QB who wanted nothing to do with the Denver Broncos organization.
                            Waiting a couple of weeks is throwing the season away? 2 weeks is the determining factor of being able to learn the playbook, even when the team is not doing anything in that time? Do you really believe that silk?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jhns View Post
                              Waiting a couple of weeks is throwing the season away? 2 weeks is the determining factor of being able to learn the playbook, even when the team is not doing anything in that time? Do you really believe that silk?
                              I believe McDaniels wanted to get a QB in here now that wanted to learn his system. It's already been reported that Bowlen was the one who pushed for the trade when Cutler completely blew him off. IMHO, it was also a situation that dealt with "burned bridges" from both parties and was best to move on.

                              Denver has enough problems to deal with right now, considering a beloved and HoF coach who turned the organization stagnant and was fired, a young OC who we don't even know if he can be a head coach, a star WR who can't stay out of problems with the police, and a franchise coming off the worst defensive 3 year tenure arguably in the history of the organization, not to mention the system change and a personal issue on defense that is probably best if all 11 starters were replaced, IMHO, but won't happen.

                              Add in an almost impossible HC/OC - QB relationship that was probably doomed from the start because no way in he!! was either side going to give. IMO, yea, best to just move on and try to revamp a stagnant organization that has done nothing but underachieve, and bow out towards the end of seasons.

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