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  • #16
    Originally posted by broncobuss View Post
    you can try to spin this anyway you want. those trades were nothing like the cutler trade. bottom line is when you have a franchise QB like Cutler you dont trade him. McDaniels is the joke of the league because of this trade...I know your a big broncos fan, as am I but you cant have those type of blinders on. You have to be realistic about this trade and the fact that this coach has no idea what he is doing and right now is just destroying the team. He was a mistake hire.
    I would say the rammifications of the effects of the Cutler trade is too early to evaluate
    I think a lot of people felt the same way when Portis was sent out to Washington for Champ Bailey
    I know how people were upset when that happened. It divided the team for sure. Now you look back, and I think we did as good with Champ as Portis did for Washington
    To say that McDaniels was a mistake hire just because Cutler didn't want to play for him, and he wanted to keep Cutler, but Cutler was adamant about leaving Denver doesn't make him a mistake
    I for one, have not agreed with all Mcdaniels move. The most notable signing a long snapper. I said in that post that move would define McDaniels career in Denver, and what I meant at the time was the type of moves like that.
    Not soon after, the trades rumors of Cutler started, whether it was his idea or not, the guy made his mark...
    sigpic
    I've started with almost nothing and still got most of it

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    • #17
      Originally posted by IgorBStrange View Post
      What I do not like are the negative people who then post saying that Orton is bunk and Cutler IS a franchise QB and we will have a poor to terrible year without Cutler.
      So, basically anyone with an opinion that differs from yours? Your in the wrong place my freind.


      In 1972, coming off another p*ss poor season under Lou Saban, new Broncos Coach John Ralston traded with the Houston Oilers for an often injured Charley Johnson. Fans whined and moaned about the trade mostly because Ralston traded our supposed "franchise" QB Don Horn. Fans railed that Horn was held back by Saban and just needed the offense to be opened up to fit his skills. Denver had a young, talented superstar to be wide receiver in Dwight Harrison who Ralston traded for an underachieving wideout named Haven Moses from Buffalo.

      If you truly are a Broncos fan, you know what happened from there.
      Haven Moses had a very solid NFL career but I dont know that Charley Johnson ever amounted to much. Point?

      In 1977 the Broncos under new coach Robert "Red" Miller (also a former Offensive Co-Ordinator from New England) traded Steve Ramsey and a 4th round pick for Craig Morton. I remember hearing the radio talk shows being livid that Denver gave up so much for Morton who was labeled a "statue" who would be killed behind Denver's poor OL. He was also labeled a "loser" because the NY Giants were the worst team in football at the time, and Morton was their QB.

      Once again, if you are truly a Broncos fan, you know what happened.
      Yea, everyone was right about Morton. And what happened? The Broncos got shallacked by the Cowboys. And he was a statue.
      I dont understand these comparisons I guess. Morton was a mediocre QB in his hey day. Yea, he took the Broncos to the SB in 78/79 but that had a lot more to do with a very good/great defense (The Orange Crush for all you youngsters) then it did his QBing. After that he didnt do much except get sacked a lot.
      Last edited by Buenacolt11; 04-17-2009, 10:00 AM.

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      • #18
        The Team

        Originally posted by rogue719 View Post
        Quite the contrary. Not only is McDaniels not the joke of the league, but most teams seem to think we improved over all. Much will depend on the Patriots system and whether Orton (who played well the only two times I watched him play) can play well with Pro Bowl quality receivers and with a line that gives him time to set up and throw.

        The rest depends on how much we can improve our defense between now and the beginning of the season. There is no doubt that a 3-4 defense is capable of being more effective in terms of changing looks on the opposing quarterbacks and having more possibilities to get a pass rush, but we don't know yet if we are going to have the personnel to play the 3-4 well.

        I also expect that between the new players and the new system, we will start slow and have to build as the season goes on. I don't expect the playoffs this year, but it's possible. Look at the differences the Dolphins made in one case.

        Now, what will be our final record? Don't know, but I'm expecting again to be around 7-9 or 8-8, so if we finish better than that, I'm happy. If we finish worse than that, then I'm disappointed but I won't lay the blame on Cutler's loss until I watch the games. If we are getting the ball in the end zone better than Cutler and company did (remember, number 2 in the NFL based on yards, mostly between the 20's, not points scored) and our defense still sucks, then I am not the least phased by losing the Kid Who Thought He Was More Important Than The Team..
        I agree...the only ones who think this was a good trade are the Bears fans..and that's because they think they can win with all offense and no defense. Bears fans have been wanting to do that for years...when Bears win 20-14, they complain they didn't pass more.

        If you're a fan of team football, then Kyle orton is who you want as QB. What did he say the job of the QB is? To get the ball into the hands of your playmakers and let them win the game and to put your offense and defense in the best position to win. He makes great decisions and reads the defense well.

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        • #19
          Good Point Here.

          Originally posted by Coldbrew View Post
          Let's stop trying to pin point what makes a "true" Bronco fan. This term and arguement is just pointless, pointing fingers at best. The bottom line is anyone has the right to feel the way they feel, and express those feelings if they want to. I for one am willing to give McDaniels a chance, after all I feel like he's a young coach headed in the right direction. Sure you can turn around and say that all this is his fault, but where does that leave us? Same position were in now. So we have a choice, to be optimistic or pesimistic, and that is our choice as fans. You really have no right to call someone out for being pesimistic for our choices and our future. Just the same for those being optimistic. It's all irrelevant and speculation. If you want to express your thoughts, go for it, but do it for the right reasons, and not to turn around and say "I told you so!".
          I agree with you. I think a lot of the posturing on both sides is just so people can come back in a few months and say "I told you so". The only thing that gets on my nerves from time to time is that once people decide they dont like someone (like McD), they dont give them another chance. So then you hear comments like "he wore a hoody to the press conference", "he called Mr. Bowlen, Pat", "he referred to Jay as 'the player'", "his eyes shifted to the left when he spoke so that means he's lying" etc, etc. And the flip side is true as well. No one can be right or wrong 100% of the time. All I am saying is to give the poor guy a shot. It will take a few seasons (2-3) to see how things pan out. I think its unfair to say if he doesnt win a SB next season he should be fired (I am exaggerating).

          I think that as other posters have said, its pretty clear that he is doing what he thinks needs to be done to put the Broncos in a position to win and he has Mr. B's complete backing. Whether we go 3-13 or 13-3 my wife, son and I will be there every Sunday, Monday or Thursday cheering (or cussing) our brains out. One thing I always think about is how good it will feel when we get back to the glory days and can say, that we were there through the good and the bad.

          I think at the very least, Mr. Bowlen deserves the benefit of the doubt and our gratitude. Broncos Nation will rise again! :go:
          Remember: If you dont feed the trolls - they will go away! Neither logic nor a compelling argument will make a difference.

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          • #20
            I do not see how anybody can say that McD is a joke for trading Cutler when we have NO idea what is going to happen this season! I will laugh my heart out when Cutler stinks it up in Chicago and Orton has the best year of his career this season. Then the same people calling McD a fool will have a sudden change of heart. Give it a chance before you decide people. Come on now. Its common sense!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by KyleFan View Post
              I agree...the only ones who think this was a good trade are the Bears fans..and that's because they think they can win with all offense and no defense. Bears fans have been wanting to do that for years...when Bears win 20-14, they complain they didn't pass more.

              If you're a fan of team football, then Kyle orton is who you want as QB. What did he say the job of the QB is? To get the ball into the hands of your playmakers and let them win the game and to put your offense and defense in the best position to win. He makes great decisions and reads the defense well.
              WOW! really?, Orton is the guy you want??!! You guys amaze me, if I would have said 95 days ago that we need our new coach to come in and trade our best player, who happens to also be a franchise QB for a couple of 1st round picks and a below average qb, and then sign the free agents we signed. along with run off the general manager who was responsible for the last few drafts that have brought us the core of our team, and replace him with a guy that has never been in charge of personel at any time. You would be killing me saying "what in the world would that do? we need to fix our defense. thats it. not mess up one of the top offenses in the nfl" Be real guys, this offseason could not have gone worse. stop talking your selves into agreeing that this was the best corse of action.....what would you say if san diego traded rivers to minnasota for sage rosenfel and 2 1st round picks... would you not be laughing your ass off at the chargers??? really guys come on
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Love Orton

                Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
                McDaniels loved what he saw in Orton, which is why the trade was made. The trade was made now so the new Qb could come into the organization and begin learning the system. Mcdaniels wasn't about to thrwo the season away because of some QB who wanted nothing to do with the Denver Broncos organization.
                I was challenged on my contention that Orton is actually a better QB...better decision-maker, better leader, and reads defenses better. Here's a comparison of Cutler and Orton after game 7 last year (when Bears fans were calling Orton their franchise QB)...

                These were the stats at the Bye Week before Kyle’s injury (and this is Kyle's first year as a starter after spending the pre-season trading snaps with Grossman):



                QB Rating:

                Cutler- 92.93

                Orton- 91.09



                TD's/ INT's:

                Cutler- 13 TD's/ 7 INT's (1.86 TD to INT)

                Orton- 10 TD's/ 4 INT's (2.5 TD to INT)



                Passes Completed:

                Cutler- 163 out of 254 (64%)

                Orton- 143 out of 230 (62%)



                Total Passing Yardage:

                Cutler- 1,862 (7.33 yards per pass attempt)

                Orton- 1,669 (7.26 yards per pass attempt)



                Total Points:

                Denver- 24 PPG

                Chicago- 28 PPG



                The job of the QB is to win, tho. Both teams were 4-3 at the Bye. In all three losses with the Bears, they had the game won (once with :11 left) and the Bears Defense gave up the game in the last few minutes of the game.



                I'm copying this and giving it to all my friends in Chicago. There is no doubt that the Broncos with Orton will be much better off than the Bears with Cutler and I want to be sure, when it all hits the fan, that everyone remembers I said it first.



                And there is no doubt that Kyle is the stronger leader...everyone knows that. He will lead the team to victory, in addition to his passing.



                At the end of game seven, the Bears media and fans were having the same discussion we're having here. Everyone was saying that the Bears had found their franchise QB...that the position was set for years to come. Then others said to be careful about calling someone a franchise QB...that should only be used for QB's like Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, John Elway...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by KyleFan View Post
                  I was challenged on my contention that Orton is actually a better QB...better decision-maker, better leader, and reads defenses better. Here's a comparison of Cutler and Orton after game 7 last year (when Bears fans were calling Orton their franchise QB)...

                  These were the stats at the Bye Week before Kyle’s injury (and this is Kyle's first year as a starter after spending the pre-season trading snaps with Grossman):
                  Just for clarification, are you saying that this is his first year as a starter or that this is his first year as a starter after splitting reps?

                  I'm just wondering because he started 15 games in 05 where he finished with pretty horrible numbers.
                  2 of the top 3 NFL QBs of all time have been Broncos

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Pratama View Post
                    I agree with you. I think a lot of the posturing on both sides is just so people can come back in a few months and say "I told you so". The only thing that gets on my nerves from time to time is that once people decide they dont like someone (like McD), they dont give them another chance. So then you hear comments like "he wore a hoody to the press conference", "he called Mr. Bowlen, Pat", "he referred to Jay as 'the player'", "his eyes shifted to the left when he spoke so that means he's lying" etc, etc. And the flip side is true as well. No one can be right or wrong 100% of the time. All I am saying is to give the poor guy a shot. It will take a few seasons (2-3) to see how things pan out. I think its unfair to say if he doesnt win a SB next season he should be fired (I am exaggerating).

                    I think that as other posters have said, its pretty clear that he is doing what he thinks needs to be done to put the Broncos in a position to win and he has Mr. B's complete backing. Whether we go 3-13 or 13-3 my wife, son and I will be there every Sunday, Monday or Thursday cheering (or cussing) our brains out. One thing I always think about is how good it will feel when we get back to the glory days and can say, that we were there through the good and the bad.

                    I think at the very least, Mr. Bowlen deserves the benefit of the doubt and our gratitude. Broncos Nation will rise again! :go:
                    Do you really think these "pessimistic" Bronco fans really want to be saying "I told you so" if the team fails to produce come fall? We're trying to point out the fact that the front office holds a degree of responsibility for this whole situation, and the homers keep saying that Bowlen had "no choice" and that the Broncos come out ahead because they got two first rounders.

                    According to reports shortly after the trade was completed, Cutler had planned to show up the mid-april mini-camp. Why not wait to see if he showed before trading him? They could still trade him before the draft in order to better evaluate the situation, right? Not only that, but why in the world would Bowlen announce that the Broncos are actively shopping Cutler? All intensive reports shortly before the trade indicated that the relationship was on the mend. Bowlen essentially gave teams who were seeking Cutler's services leverage since they knew that the Broncos had "no choice" at this point.

                    Believe me, all the pessimists here would absolutely love it if Kyle Orton goes out there and operates McDaniels system, the defense improves by leaps and bounds this year, and McDaniels is named head coach of the year, but the truth is:

                    the team traded a franchise quarterback in his prime for wishes and hopes.

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                    • #25
                      Well a good portion of people on this board would be surprised if Orton threw 12 TD's, 10 ints, and 3000 yards. So ya, I would agree that Orton is going to surprise a lot of people here.

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                      • #26
                        Forgot His Rookie Year...

                        Originally posted by BroncsSB#3 View Post
                        Just for clarification, are you saying that this is his first year as a starter or that this is his first year as a starter after splitting reps?

                        I'm just wondering because he started 15 games in 05 where he finished with pretty horrible numbers.
                        Yeh, you're right...I forgot about his rookie year. That was when he was drafted, expecting to be a third-string backup behind Rex and the regular back-up. Rex got injured and the regular backup was awful so they asked Kyle to step in, not knowing the offense and do his best to save the team and he led them into the playoffs. Actually, I haven't checked, but there were articles that year comparing Kyle's numbers with the rookie numbers for QBs like Favre, Elway, Unitas and they were pretty comparable.

                        It doesn't really matter, of course, because this will all be settled on the field like it should...

                        It's just funny because Chicago was calling Orton their franchise QB at the Bye week last year, too. Like his college coach said, Orton's biggest fault is he tries to come back from injuries too soon because he wants to help the team...but then he gets criticized for it. he should have done what the other QBs do and say he can't play.

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                        • #27
                          Our team NEEDED to be broken up. It was the same old story year after year. Yea we had some ok seasons but we couldn't win the big games and always got crushed when we made the playoffs. It was time for a change! Im actually excited about this season because everyone is already counting us out. I have a gut feeling everyone is going to be in for a big suprise. Even with our tough schedule.

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