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  • #91
    anything by McD to check and restrict this bush-league, invasive, high-on-themselves minor market local media is welcome by me, I dont care if Drew or Vic or Reggie complain until they're blue in the face.

    and PLZ let's put a halt to the weekly QB TV shows. Just go out, prepare for, and play the game to win.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by owninit View Post
      and that my friend is the way the cookie crumbles, why would you allow a reporter that demolishes you every chance they get that kind of access? I wouldn't. You are going to allow the reporters who report the story without sensationalizing it beyond belief to get their 15 minutes of fame, that is why reporters like Adam Schefter have everyones good graces because he reports the facts, and is a good guy, and loosers like kornheiser are banished to shock jock shows because no one will let him in the building.
      My problem with reporters who become favorites is they cannot be impartial or analytical, which is what I want from a reporter. I don't know the vanishing Adam very well, but some just drink whatever they are given by the teams and become just another part of the team PR machine. We are in agreement on Kornheiser. I am thinking more the reporter who tries to get both sides of an issue and balance it out. If the new coach plays games, I think he will live to regret it. Again, what works for someone else in Boston or Miami may not work so well in Denver.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by owninit View Post
        The white house works for us, we shouldn't forget that. The broncos are a privately owned company, and the media takes focus off of the task at hand. With government we NEED to know, with bussiness we WANT to know. Just because you want 24-7 access doesn't meant you should get 24-7 access
        Acpell is entitled to his opinion. We can agree to disagree.

        I agree with you. I don't believe Broncos team business should be put out there. That's not how things are done. If Cutler had something to say, he should've said it in the face-to-face with McDaniels, and the same goes for McDaniels. That's the rule.

        The only thing that I don't understand about Acpell's viewpoint is how an organization can say to a player "don't air team business out in the media (contract issues, team issues, etc)", and then call a press conference to air out team business in the media with press release after press release. That can't happen. It's not a consistent message. If you don't do what you expect the other players to do and place yourself above your own rules, then you lose credibility with the team very quickly.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Stiffy View Post
          I think the last couple of SB wins were legit, but I believe that he spied on the Rams and that NE wouldn't have won that game without cheating.
          I've often wondered how many teams did and were not caught. It's difficult to believe that just one coach thought and tried it.

          Comment


          • #95
            Jimmy Johnson the former Dallas coach said that they stole signals from other teams. He said many teams did it. McD is here to build a team and win games not please fans and reporters. Parcells once said, that a coach that listens to the fans will soon be sitting with them unemployed.

            Comment


            • #96
              For amusement, try replacing "Denver" with "America" and "New England" with "France". Throw in a belligerent "deal with it or geddd out!" Enjoy.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                Acpell is entitled to his opinion. We can agree to disagree.

                I agree with you. I don't believe Broncos team business should be put out there. That's not how things are done. If Cutler had something to say, he should've said it in the face-to-face with McDaniels, and the same goes for McDaniels. That's the rule.

                The only thing that I don't understand about Acpell's viewpoint is how an organization can say to a player "don't air team business out in the media (contract issues, team issues, etc)", and then call a press conference to air out team business in the media with press release after press release. That can't happen. It's not a consistent message. If you don't do what you expect the other players to do and place yourself above your own rules, then you lose credibility with the team very quickly.
                Thanks Crazy8 for your support. I really appreciate that. You are a classy poster.

                There is some middle ground here. Obviously, there are things that go on that shouldn't be made public. It would not be beneficial for anyone. It's not far left or far right. Some information can be released that isn't harmful or damaging and putting the right spin on it so that it's beneficial for the team. It's not an all or nothing kind of deal. This isn't to say that they need to start airing out sensitive information. However, when something goes down like what happened this off season, leaving the media to speculate is VERY damaging to the reputation of the team. When all this was happening and the media was slandering the team, especially during free agency, you don't think it would have been beneficial to say something to the press to protect the organization and Josh McDaniels? While some of us are skeptical of Josh McDaniels, if handled properly, we could have been more skeptical of Brian Xanders, instead. But that's not what happened.

                I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you guys keep saying that I think it's an all or nothing deal. I'm not talking about an all access pass to Dove Valley, I'm not talking about spilling company secrets or anything like that. I'm talking about basic PR. Exactly what is happening right now with the press and the fans. Are you guys saying that the PR that's going on now is a bad thing? Based on the arguments that you present, one can infer that is what you are implying.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
                  I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you guys keep saying that I think it's an all or nothing deal. I'm not talking about an all access pass to Dove Valley, I'm not talking about spilling company secrets or anything like that. I'm talking about basic PR. Exactly what is happening right now with the press and the fans. Are you guys saying that the PR that's going on now is a bad thing? Based on the arguments that you present, one can infer that is what you are implying.
                  I personally don't think whats being put out to the media now is bad. It's been pretty good so far in the sense that we've been able to get a little glimpes of whats going on. In reality theres alot going on in Dove Valley its just a little early yet to get what the fans want. Which I think are depth charts and gameplan info.

                  The Broncos have been very tight lipped in the past when it comes down to fo and player relations. That usually includes contracts, contract disputes, trade rumors and such. Thats been the broncos mo forever it seems. I'm not sure if you've ever noticed that when the broncos sign players, the terms of the contracts are not know for quite a while. Most reports from major nfl news outlets are speculative at best. I think that was a major influence on what was coming out of dove valley earlier in the year.

                  I think when it comes down to PR for a NFL teams. What the Broncos are putting out there now are pretty much on par with what is expected. A coach excited for the new year and players talking about getting better, looking forward to a season of playing good football. Other than that I'm not too sure what else they can do impove on with what their putting out there.
                  Last edited by elecshoc; 04-22-2009, 02:58 AM.

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                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
                    I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you guys keep saying that I think it's an all or nothing deal. I'm not talking about an all access pass to Dove Valley, I'm not talking about spilling company secrets or anything like that. I'm talking about basic PR. Exactly what is happening right now with the press and the fans. Are you guys saying that the PR that's going on now is a bad thing? Based on the arguments that you present, one can infer that is what you are implying.
                    Thanks for the props. I really enjoy discussing things with you. You give a very intelligent insight that really adds to discussions.

                    At the time of the whole Cutler incident, it was an all or nothing proposition. If you got McDaniels or Bowlen in front of reporters it was only going to be about "The Player". If that's something you want to keep in-house as much as possible, then you're not going to put yourself in the position for people to dig. The reason why it was all-or-nothing is because that's all there was to report on. Cutler. What's happening. What's going to happen. What else was there to cover at that time?

                    I like the PR going on now, sure. There's actually things to talk about with reporters. The reason for the PR going on now is because we just had a mini-camp. It's an exciting time when a coach has his first mini-camp. It gives fans an idea of what this guy is really about because none of us really knows much about him other than he's a really good offensive coordinator.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                      Thanks for the props. I really enjoy discussing things with you. You give a very intelligent insight that really adds to discussions.

                      At the time of the whole Cutler incident, it was an all or nothing proposition. If you got McDaniels or Bowlen in front of reporters it was only going to be about "The Player". If that's something you want to keep in-house as much as possible, then you're not going to put yourself in the position for people to dig. The reason why it was all-or-nothing is because that's all there was to report on. Cutler. What's happening. What's going to happen. What else was there to cover at that time?

                      I like the PR going on now, sure. There's actually things to talk about with reporters. The reason for the PR going on now is because we just had a mini-camp. It's an exciting time when a coach has his first mini-camp. It gives fans an idea of what this guy is really about because none of us really knows much about him other than he's a really good offensive coordinator.

                      I enjoy lively debate with you, too. People don't have to agree here, but they don't have to spew negativity at people they don't agree with all the time.

                      With regards to what was happening at the time, we were signing or had just signed over 10 players in free agency. I think there was a lot to talk about. I'm not saying that people would forget that the Cutler thing was going on, but they should have given the press something to write about that's more positive or factual than just the speculation crap that they were putting out. All the "Josh McD is this" and "Cutler is that" speculation was just the most junk reporting I have ever seen. Why? Because they had nothing to write or report on.

                      I really think the whole transition during that period, I felt, was about 2 inexperienced people trying to pull a fast one and got caught with their pants down. Seriously. Most people won't agree with me now, but I have not seen anything that has changed my opinion on that. The spin they tried putting on the story was a little too late for me and just smelled of damage control.

                      Paying attention to what was really going on... if you just let all the speculation and name calling go, you will notice this. The Goodmans were fired, Xanders was announced as the GM of the team and will answer only to Bowlen... then suddenly, presto, Josh was de facto GM managing personnel, talking trades, etc. Nobody really paid any attention to that. It was like a good magic trick.

                      I was under the impression that when McD was hired, an inexperienced HC, we had the Goodmans with experience to manage the FO and I was okay with that. Then they were replaced with Brian Xanders another rookie. Why did Brian Xanders even hold a press conference to tout his horn, throw around his title and blah blah blah. This guy need to be fired, seriously. When you look at other teams, it is ALWAYS the GM discussing personnel e.g. Scott Pioli at KC or Jerry Angelo at the Bears. Why was Brian Xanders not in front of this story from the get go? Because he has NO power and McD's ego wouldn't allow Xanders to be in front of this story even though it would protect the team that way. All the power that Shanahan had was essentially given to McD when the Goodman's were fired. This has been my biggest problem with this whole fiasco since the day Mike Leach found out from the news that Lonnie Paxton was signed to the 2nd highest contract for a Long Snapper by our team.

                      McD risked the locker room to be in front of this story, only to throw out the players to feed to the sharks before he himself answered their questions. I thought that was cowardice, seriously. One of my best bosses would go to the Director's meetings and defend our department yelling at other director's for harping on us. He took the heat for us. He didn't send us out there to be ripped before he had a chance to stand in the way for us. That is something I will always respect.

                      So this is why I became skeptical of him. It was never about Cutler for me. I respect that HC's need their own stamp on their team and they have the right to do what they want, I may not agree as a fan, but I respect it. Before he could even coach a game for us, he commited the cardinal sin of football. "If you are gonna talk about trading your QB, you had better pull the trigger." His arrogance in talking to third parties and expecting they would be on the down low screamed arrogance and inexperience. Entertaining the trade or not was beside the point. He actually spoke to somebody about it, somebody that was probably not trustworthy. Everyone here thinks that Bus Cook leaked the trade information, but the question is who had the most to gain by leaking the information and creating a qb controversy in Denver? Easy... some other team that needed a good qb at a good price.

                      I didn't mean to rehash everything with my perspective, but I think you are a good poster. Your very first comment in this thread was that you were aware of my views, but I may not have been very clear about why I have them. It's easy to peg me as a Cutler lover as so many have, but it is just not true as the label would imply. I think he will be a great qb one day. I think it's absolutely unfortunate the way things turned out, but I didn't see it working out very early on. It was blatantly obvious that Pat Bowlen, nor Josh McDaniels wanted Cutler nor did Cutler want them. It wasn't personal with the fans. It was irreconcilable. Period.

                      The bottom line for me is this. It's not the loss of a good qb that was at stake. What was at stake was the reputation and integrity of a prestigious organization. The lack of PR savvy between Xanders & McDaniels caused the integrity of the Denver Broncos to be questioned in the eyes of so many in the league. The only thing that can restore that is a SB.

                      Thanks again for hearing me out.
                      Last edited by acpell671; 04-22-2009, 08:13 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
                        I enjoy lively debate with you, too. People don't have to agree here, but they don't have to spew negativity at people they don't agree with all the time.

                        With regards to what was happening at the time, we were signing or had just signed over 10 players in free agency. I think there was a lot to talk about. I'm not saying that people would forget that the Cutler thing was going on, but they should have given the press something to write about that's more positive or factual than just the speculation crap that they were putting out. All the "Josh McD is this" and "Cutler is that" speculation was just the most junk reporting I have ever seen. Why? Because they had nothing to write or report on.

                        I really think the whole transition during that period, I felt, was about 2 inexperienced people trying to pull a fast one and got caught with their pants down. Seriously. Most people won't agree with me now, but I have not seen anything that has changed my opinion on that. The spin they tried putting on the story was a little too late for me and just smelled of damage control.

                        Paying attention to what was really going on... if you just let all the speculation and name calling go, you will notice this. The Goodmans were fired, Xanders was announced as the GM of the team and will answer only to Bowlen... then suddenly, presto, Josh was de facto GM managing personnel, talking trades, etc. Nobody really paid any attention to that. It was like a good magic trick.

                        I was under the impression that when McD was hired, an inexperienced HC, we had the Goodmans with experience to manage the FO and I was okay with that. Then they were replaced with Brian Xanders another rookie. Why did Brian Xanders even hold a press conference to tout his horn, throw around his title and blah blah blah. This guy need to be fired, seriously. When you look at other teams, it is ALWAYS the GM discussing personnel e.g. Scott Pioli at KC or Jerry Angelo at the Bears. Why was Brian Xanders not in front of this story from the get go? Because he has NO power and McD's ego wouldn't allow Xanders to be in front of this story even though it would protect the team that way. All the power that Shanahan had was essentially given to McD when the Goodman's were fired. This has been my biggest problem with this whole fiasco since the day Mike Leach found out from the news that Lonnie Paxton was signed to the 2nd highest contract for a Long Snapper by our team.

                        McD risked the locker room to be in front of this story, only to throw out the players to feed to the sharks before he himself answered their questions. I thought that was cowardice, seriously. One of my best bosses would go to the Director's meetings and defend our department yelling at other director's for harping on us. He took the heat for us. He didn't send us out there to be ripped before he had a chance to stand in the way for us. That is something I will always respect.

                        So this is why I became skeptical of him. It was never about Cutler for me. I respect that HC's need their own stamp on their team and they have the right to do what they want, I may not agree as a fan, but I respect it. Before he could even coach a game for us, he commited the cardinal sin of football. "If you are gonna talk about trading your QB, you had better pull the trigger." His arrogance in talking to third parties and expecting they would be on the down low screamed arrogance and inexperience. Entertaining the trade or not was beside the point. He actually spoke to somebody about it, somebody that was probably not trustworthy. Everyone here thinks that Bus Cook leaked the trade information, but the question is who had the most to gain by leaking the information and creating a qb controversy in Denver? Easy... some other team that needed a good qb at a good price.

                        I didn't mean to rehash everything with my perspective, but I think you are a good poster. Your very first comment in this thread was that you were aware of my views, but I may not have been very clear about why I have them. It's easy to peg me as a Cutler lover as so many have, but it is just not true as the label would imply. I think he will be a great qb one day. I think it's absolutely unfortunate the way things turned out, but I didn't see it working out very early on. It was blatantly obvious that Pat Bowlen, nor Josh McDaniels wanted Cutler nor did Cutler want them. It wasn't personal with the fans. It was irreconcilable. Period.

                        The bottom line for me is this. It's not the loss of a good qb that was at stake. What was at stake was the reputation and integrity of a prestigious organization. The lack of PR savvy between Xanders & McDaniels caused the integrity of the Denver Broncos to be questioned in the eyes of so many in the league. The only thing that can restore that is a SB.

                        Thanks again for hearing me out.
                        I think you have articulated many of the concerns that many of us have. What is important is for the franchise to recover from whatever happened and do a solid job in the draft and work with many of the good players left from the prior regime. I would hope that I stop seeing rumors about various players being on the trading block and instead have a coach bright and flexible enough to use what he has until he can replace it in a rational fashion.

                        Take a look at what John Harbaugh and Ozzie Newsome have done in Baltimore. They have handled an orderly transition of power in a classy way. Some players from the Billick regime are gone, but not in a way that ripped open the franchise.

                        Time will certainly tell whether these moves were good ones or bad ones....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
                          I enjoy lively debate with you, too. People don't have to agree here, but they don't have to spew negativity at people they don't agree with all the time.

                          With regards to what was happening at the time, we were signing or had just signed over 10 players in free agency. I think there was a lot to talk about. I'm not saying that people would forget that the Cutler thing was going on, but they should have given the press something to write about that's more positive or factual than just the speculation crap that they were putting out. All the "Josh McD is this" and "Cutler is that" speculation was just the most junk reporting I have ever seen. Why? Because they had nothing to write or report on.

                          I really think the whole transition during that period, I felt, was about 2 inexperienced people trying to pull a fast one and got caught with their pants down. Seriously. Most people won't agree with me now, but I have not seen anything that has changed my opinion on that. The spin they tried putting on the story was a little too late for me and just smelled of damage control.

                          Paying attention to what was really going on... if you just let all the speculation and name calling go, you will notice this. The Goodmans were fired, Xanders was announced as the GM of the team and will answer only to Bowlen... then suddenly, presto, Josh was de facto GM managing personnel, talking trades, etc. Nobody really paid any attention to that. It was like a good magic trick.

                          I was under the impression that when McD was hired, an inexperienced HC, we had the Goodmans with experience to manage the FO and I was okay with that. Then they were replaced with Brian Xanders another rookie. Why did Brian Xanders even hold a press conference to tout his horn, throw around his title and blah blah blah. This guy need to be fired, seriously. When you look at other teams, it is ALWAYS the GM discussing personnel e.g. Scott Pioli at KC or Jerry Angelo at the Bears. Why was Brian Xanders not in front of this story from the get go? Because he has NO power and McD's ego wouldn't allow Xanders to be in front of this story even though it would protect the team that way. All the power that Shanahan had was essentially given to McD when the Goodman's were fired. This has been my biggest problem with this whole fiasco since the day Mike Leach found out from the news that Lonnie Paxton was signed to the 2nd highest contract for a Long Snapper by our team.

                          McD risked the locker room to be in front of this story, only to throw out the players to feed to the sharks before he himself answered their questions. I thought that was cowardice, seriously. One of my best bosses would go to the Director's meetings and defend our department yelling at other director's for harping on us. He took the heat for us. He didn't send us out there to be ripped before he had a chance to stand in the way for us. That is something I will always respect.

                          So this is why I became skeptical of him. It was never about Cutler for me. I respect that HC's need their own stamp on their team and they have the right to do what they want, I may not agree as a fan, but I respect it. Before he could even coach a game for us, he commited the cardinal sin of football. "If you are gonna talk about trading your QB, you had better pull the trigger." His arrogance in talking to third parties and expecting they would be on the down low screamed arrogance and inexperience. Entertaining the trade or not was beside the point. He actually spoke to somebody about it, somebody that was probably not trustworthy. Everyone here thinks that Bus Cook leaked the trade information, but the question is who had the most to gain by leaking the information and creating a qb controversy in Denver? Easy... some other team that needed a good qb at a good price.

                          I didn't mean to rehash everything with my perspective, but I think you are a good poster. Your very first comment in this thread was that you were aware of my views, but I may not have been very clear about why I have them. It's easy to peg me as a Cutler lover as so many have, but it is just not true as the label would imply. I think he will be a great qb one day. I think it's absolutely unfortunate the way things turned out, but I didn't see it working out very early on. It was blatantly obvious that Pat Bowlen, nor Josh McDaniels wanted Cutler nor did Cutler want them. It wasn't personal with the fans. It was irreconcilable. Period.

                          The bottom line for me is this. It's not the loss of a good qb that was at stake. What was at stake was the reputation and integrity of a prestigious organization. The lack of PR savvy between Xanders & McDaniels caused the integrity of the Denver Broncos to be questioned in the eyes of so many in the league. The only thing that can restore that is a SB.

                          Thanks again for hearing me out.
                          Great post! Still don't agree, but I see your side completely, and I think you could be right. I just think it's philosophy at this point.

                          There's no way the media would've just talked about the free agent signings. It would have brought attention more to the situation by them not talking about it, but making other announcements to the media. It's the whole ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room thing. To me, that would've been horrible PR, but I'm far from the expert in that arena.

                          The spin they tried putting on it, to me was after everything was done. The dye was cast. I think they were trying to work things out, and then when it got to the point of no return, that's when they spoke with the media.

                          I don't know about McD's ego yet. I can totally speak about Jerry Angelo and Scott Pioli's ego. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, so I can't really discuss the dynamic between McDaniels and Xanders. I think to say that McDaniel's ego had anything to do with it is presumptuous. You don't have to be in the spotlight to be a good GM either. Bill Polian is one of my favorite GMs and if you put him in a line-up, I would have no idea who he is.

                          As far as McDaniels throwing the players out there to the media, I don't agree with that either. Your boss sticking up for you to others is great and all, but what was McDaniels supposed to tell the media? Leave my players alone? That would've lasted 2 seconds, and again, to me, would've been a bad PR move, because again it would've brought more attention to the situation in a bad light.

                          But you're talking to a guy who probably would've been more abrasive when it came to dealing with this situation. I think McDaniels should've carried things a step further and been more aggressive with the situation...in a bad way in your eyes, I'm sure.

                          I disagree with you when you say that Bowlen and McDaniels wanted Cutler out. I think the reason why they were not more aggressive is because they really wanted Cutler to come around. That's why they didn't release anything for a while. By letting things cool down, I think they hoped the situation would fizzle out. But, it didn't.

                          I love your theory about who leaked that info. To me, it wreaks of Bill Bellichick. Why? He views McDaniels as a threat, and he wanted to poison the well in Denver. Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't this story first break in Boston? If Bellichick views the McDaniels as a threat like that, then that's a great thing for Denver. I'm in the camp where I think Cutler had everything physically, but not mentally or heart-wise. I think he could be great, but he has to decide to be great. He might think he's great enough as is. And if it's all about him (Cutler), then how could the rest of the team take the next step? That's just my opinion. I saw some things in Cutler that I would expect a highschool QB to know better. But man, when Jay saw an open receiver, he could make some pretty throws. But it's the combination of greatness and buffoonery that frustrated me so much about Cutler.

                          I understand all of your fears in this situation. I'm more in the wait and see camp. Do I think it was handled perfectly? No. Do I think it endangered the integrity of the Broncos? No. Did it put the Broncos franchise in a bad light? I believe it did simply because it was an unfortunate situation and nothing else was going on in the league. So all eyes were on us. Do I think it was a tragedy? No. As a matter of fact I think we could end up stronger from this, especially if McDanies is as good at developing QBs as he appears to be.
                          Last edited by Crazy8; 04-23-2009, 11:25 AM.

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