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  • OP- onet thing to keep in mind when calling out busts.... any player can do different in a different system. Example- Vernon Davis. He's been stuck in the muck in SF. Who knows if his potential could have been tapped differently had he ended up in Denver? Or any of the backs you listed? Take Emmit Smith.... how would he have fared if not on those great Cowboy teams? Sanders if he wasn't in Detroit?? Favre and Young got traded away from the team that drafted them, deemd expendable and look what happened.

    I've always had a hard time saying that hindsight is right in a certain team not drafting certain players because you can't go back and replay life over with a few twists. Once it has happened, it has happend... but it's always a frustrating, yet awkwardly fun game of "what if....".
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    • I am not worried about Knowshon. He played in a zone blocking scheme at Georgia and we still have Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison. I am sure that McDaniels got a thumbs up from both of those guys before he drafted him. Knowshon is better than every RB we have had since Mike Anderson.He will do great.
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      • Originally posted by Cugel View Post
        What's negative about "Great pick! Screw the draft history!"
        1. Great pick, will undoubtedly contribute to the Bronco's future success
        2. Great pick, even though the odds are almost insurmountable that he will achieve success based on the failures of other 1st round RB picks

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        • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
          You can the same thing about any position in the draft. Elway vs. Leaf, Mandarich vs. Clady, Lelie vs. Owens, Portis vs. Ricky Williams, Dwayne Robertson vs. Haynesworth. You just never know and $12M guaranteed over 5 years is pretty low for a star/potential star RB, IMO
          You can't compare QB to RB! QB is the most highly drafted position in football for obvious reasons. It's VERY difficult to get a franchise QB outside the top 15 picks of the draft.

          So, if you want a long-term starting QB you pretty much have to draft one very early and gamble he'll be worth the money. If he's successful, he will be.

          But, you can find RBs who are perfectly good in later rounds. Remember Portis was a 2nd round pick for instance. There are many examples of this!

          EX: Frank Gore, taken #65 in the 3rd round by the 49ers, has rushed for over 1,000 more yards than Ronnie Brown, taken #2 overall by the Dolphins.

          This is NOT an isolated example! Marion Barber, taken #109 in the 4th round by Dallas has had a better career than Cadillac Williams. And that's just 2005. Would you rather have Chargers Michael Turner (5th round) or Rams Steven Jackson?

          There are MANY fewer such examples with QBs.

          Conclusion: It's a LOT easier to find great RB talent in later rounds than it is to find great QB talent in later rounds! So, you really can't compare them.
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          • Originally posted by oldster View Post
            That is one of the most hosed polls I've ever seen. Even the positives have a negative slant.
            Yeah I won't vote in that poll. RB's are usually one of the safer positions in the draft. Like they say "if you can run in college you can run in the pro's". Most of the RB's that bust go to a team without a good o-line.
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            • Originally posted by ebsoria View Post
              OP- onet thing to keep in mind when calling out busts.... any player can do different in a different system. Example- Vernon Davis. He's been stuck in the muck in SF. Who knows if his potential could have been tapped differently had he ended up in Denver? Or any of the backs you listed? Take Emmit Smith.... how would he have fared if not on those great Cowboy teams? Sanders if he wasn't in Detroit?? Favre and Young got traded away from the team that drafted them, deemd expendable and look what happened.

              I've always had a hard time saying that hindsight is right in a certain team not drafting certain players because you can't go back and replay life over with a few twists. Once it has happened, it has happend... but it's always a frustrating, yet awkwardly fun game of "what if....".
              If Barry Sanders played ANYWHERE besides Detroit, he probably would have won MVP 10 straight years with 10 2000 yard seasons.

              As for the OP, busts are naturally more frequent than the AP's and LT's, that's why it's hard to find those special players and that's why RBs are taken early, they're the ones that are most likely to be the next great RB. Moreno was a great pick and in my opinion is the RB least likely to be a bust. If he has talent he'll have it easy behind our line.
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              • Originally posted by jdubv724 View Post
                Yeah I won't vote in that poll. RB's are usually one of the safer positions in the draft. Like they say "if you can run in college you can run in the pro's". Most of the RB's that bust go to a team without a good o-line.
                Your statement is ridiculous and contradictory.

                I just cited the history that shows exactly the OPPOSITE of what you suggest!

                1st round RBs are the MOST likely to "BUST" pick of any position in football -- except WRs.

                But, I suppose all those busts are just due to bad OLs they were all going to be great, but [insert excuse]!
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                • Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                  Your statement is ridiculous and contradictory.

                  I just cited the history that shows exactly the OPPOSITE of what you suggest!

                  1st round RBs are the MOST likely to "BUST" pick of any position in football -- except WRs.

                  But, I suppose all those busts are just due to bad OLs they were all going to be great, but [insert excuse]!
                  I didn't read your entire post I skimmed over it, I will read it in a bit.... I am in a poker tourney right now.

                  I don't agree that Steven Jackson, Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Deangelo Williams, Reggie Bush, Joseph Addai, Ronnie Brown, and Cadillac Williams are busts though. A few of them got injured, but when they are healthy they are all very good RB's.
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                  • Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                    Take a look at 2005. A particularly bad year:

                    Ronnie Brown #2
                    Cedrick Benson #4
                    Cadillac Williams #5

                    OUCH! None of those guys remotely justified their top 5 selection!

                    2006 wasn't much better:

                    Reggie Bush #2
                    Lawrence Maroney #17
                    DeAngelo Williams #21
                    Joseph Addai #30


                    2004 is even WORSE!

                    Steven Jackson #24
                    Chris Perry #26
                    Kevin Jones #30

                    All three could be considered disappointments. Jackson has been injured pretty much since 2006 and the other two are just busts.

                    2003

                    Willis McGhee #27
                    Larry Johnson #27


                    McGhee was let go from the Bills after 4 seasons and had 670 yards for the Ravens last year. Larry Johnson of course had a stellar career, but he's been injured much of the last two seasons, neither of them 1000 yard seasons. His body is taking a pounding and he might not last too much longer. In his day he was a game breaking back, but you'd hope for a long career for a top 1st round pick.

                    2002

                    Willie Green #16
                    T.J. Duckett #18
                    I would consider none of the bolded players busts.

                    Maroney proved he can get it done, he just plays in a pass-happy offense.

                    DeAngelo Williams tore it up last year, and played solid before.

                    Addai, at the 30th pick, I would hardly consider a bust. He's been reliable and taken some pressure of Manning and the pass game for sure.

                    Steven Jackson is a beast when healthy.

                    McGahee and Johnson have both had good careers. McGahee always seems to get jackkkked up though, but I certainly wouldn't consider either a bust...

                    Good post though, I'm hoping Moreno pans out.

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                    • Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                      Your statement is ridiculous .
                      So is your poll. Anytime you insert your own bias into the poll options you throw any credibility out that you wanted honest opinions.

                      What Do You Think About Drafting Moreno With the #12 Pick?

                      Yes! I think taking a RB with such a high pick is very risky!
                      I Love Moreno! Great Pick! Screw the Draft History!
                      I'm ambivalent. I'm hopeful he'll be great, but that's a LOT of money!
                      I don't know. Maybe yes. Maybe no. I'm not over the shock yet that they passed on Orakpo!
                      Last edited by oldster; 05-01-2009, 09:28 AM.

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                      • seems low, wtg
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                        • 12.5 mil is fine with me.

                          Cugel, you keep talking about RB's busting out of the first round, and I think RB's bust out of every round.

                          32 teams. Some teams have two good backs.

                          How many RB's are in the draft every year?

                          That's like saying don't have a kid because other kids have been known to be born with problems.
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                          • Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                            Your statement is ridiculous and contradictory.

                            I just cited the history that shows exactly the OPPOSITE of what you suggest!

                            1st round RBs are the MOST likely to "BUST" pick of any position in football -- except WRs.

                            But, I suppose all those busts are just due to bad OLs they were all going to be great, but [insert excuse]!
                            Who would you have rather drafted? A potential hybrid DE? So.... Jarvis Moss?

                            Should we have went with the ONLY safe pick and drafted an O-lineman? There are zero safe picks *for the cash they are paid*, especially in the top 15.

                            This draft had no clear cut defensive talent outside of the top 9, so I don't fault McD for picking up a potential franchise back for fairly cheap (if he works out).
                            Last edited by DBroncs04; 05-01-2009, 09:51 AM.

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                            • That's funny. The thread talks about the load of money being given to rookies, yet the same people bash our front office for getting rid of one of our 2010 1st round picks while getting a 1st round talent for 2nd round money. With more two 1st round picks next year, especially if one of them become a high pick, our salary cap would suffer a K.O. And to me, there is nothing safer than getting a top OT or RB with a high pick.
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                              • i think Moreno was a good pick for Best Player Available and for immediate impact. we have an O-line good enough to let him take pressure off of both the QB and the Defense. ball control, time of possession, power game... i think the Quinn pick figures into this as well (trade value there questionable).


                                Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                                What's negative about "Great pick! Screw the draft history!"

                                The draft history suggests that there's risk.

                                People who have faith in McDaniels think he knows exactly what he's doing and that Moreno WON'T be a bust! They also think it's NOT too much money to give to a RB.

                                Nothing unfair about that.

                                NOBODY can know at this point who's right. I'm sure Bears fans were wildly enthusiastic about getting Cedrick Benson too. Not so much now though.
                                you're entitled to your opinion man, but even the wording of the poll shows that you're not here to discuss, your here to preach. i don't think you're convincing anyone but yourself.

                                and think about using italics for emphasis instead of ALL CAPS. reading it is like talking to a person that just YELLS every fourth or fifth WORD for little apparent REASON. you might find the subtlety of italics more effective.

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