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  • Why did McDaniels get personnell rights?

    This is something that has really left me scratching my head. Why did the Broncos decide to put him in charge of personell? A good number of NFL teams get the coaches input but they have someone else calling the shots on what trades you make, what free agents you pick up, and who you draft.

    McDaniels is a rookie head coach. Not too long ago he was just a QB coach. He has a lot now on his plate that he didn't have before. Giving him this responsibility just adds to it.

    It seems to me that first of all, the Cuter situation could have been avoided if they didn't give him control of this aspect. Even if Cutler were on the trading block... it wouldn't be the head coach that was trying to make that trade. It would instead be a GM saying this... and Cutler doesn't wonder about McDaniel's faith in him.

    Plus, a major flaw for a lot of head coaches is that they fall in love with their players. They have their pet projects and players they really like even if they just plain arn't as good as other players. McDaniel's trade inquiries for Cassell are a good example of that.

    Coaches may also favor certain positions. They may want a certain area of the team to be very strong... which is understandable but not at the expense of other positions. If you look at what McDaniels had done... he brought in a ton of RB's and DB's. Then he drafted some more. What gives?

    Then... in terms of a rookie head coach... he is evaluating players not on overall talent but by comparing them to others. Again... McDaniels move by trading the first... there was a guy he had valued higher on his board available and he made the move to get him. However, how would this player have been evaluated overall... in comparison to NFL talent and not just talent in 1 persons first draft. It's something he wasn't used to.

    People may be very critical of McDaniels but really he shouldn't have been given this responsibility. It's an area that he really didn't have experience (even if he does have experience as a coach). It's an area that he didn't know how to handle with tact and composure. Overall it's just something he wasn't ready to do. If nothing else if he weren't given this responsibility... all these terrible personell moves could be blamed on someone else and he could focus on what he was brought in to do.

    Some of you may be really mad at McDaniels right now but it was someone else that dropped the ball when they allowed him to take responsibility for personell.
    Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.


  • #2
    There is nothing to indicate exactly how much say he had in the draft. I believe that McDaniels, Xanders and scouting crew all worked together to choose the picks, with Xanders making most of the trades and the last one pulling the trigger. Of course Josh is going to be the one who endorses the picks and explains them to the media, but just because he was the one talking doesn't mean he was the one who made all the decisions.

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    • #3
      Why wouldn't a coach have say in Personnel decisions?

      Comment


      • #4
        Pick your poison, you want a first time rookie coach making the picks or a first time rookie GM? anyway you go its a huge gamble, but since they already rolled the dice i guess we all have to live with it for good or bad.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Uglybass View Post
          There is nothing to indicate exactly how much say he had in the draft. I believe that McDaniels, Xanders and scouting crew all worked together to choose the picks, with Xanders making most of the trades and the last one pulling the trigger. Of course Josh is going to be the one who endorses the picks and explains them to the media, but just because he was the one talking doesn't mean he was the one who made all the decisions.
          http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ler/index.html

          "The Broncos have gone out of their way to say the draft will be a collaboration between Xanders and McDaniels, but at the owners meetings last week, McDaniels intimated on multiple occasions that all personnel decisions will run through him. Part of the reason McDaniels got the job (and so much authority) was his stint in New England, where most recently he was the offensive coordinator under Bill Belichick."

          He has the final say so on all decisions and not Xanders which is why I termed it "Personnel Rights." It's in his contract.
          Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by deepcover1 View Post
            Pick your poison, you want a first time rookie coach making the picks or a first time rookie GM? anyway you go its a huge gamble, but since they already rolled the dice i guess we all have to live with it for good or bad.
            Very true... but I have to think that a first time GM has more experience with that type of thing than McDaniels. McDaniels as a QB coach had no say so. As an O coordinator he maybe had some input but really that's only looking at the offense there and it speaks to nothing of his ability there.

            Xanders at least was assistant GM and would be more actively involved in that type of thing (although Shanny had the same deal.)
            Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Artamentous View Post
              Why wouldn't a coach have say in Personnel decisions?
              No doubt that the coach should have his input heard but he shouldn't always have the final say so. Some are great at it and others are not. Rookie head coaches almost never do. The reasons are stated above. The coaches job is to develop and coach the talent available and the GM usually has the job of getting the talent there.

              With a setup where the coach doesn't have the final say so there is accountability in both areas. If you look at the talent and say that the coach is getting them to overperform you can ditch the people making the personnel decisions and keep the coach. Visa Versa... you have a ton of talent and can't get a thing out of them then you ditch the coach and keep the GM (or maybe some of the people the GM relied on for those decisions). It's clearly in both of their best insterests to see eye to eye... but in areas where they disagree it works out the best for the team.

              Let's say there is a disagreement. If a really talented guy is drafted and everyone sees it but the coach doesn't develop him the coach looks like a dud. The team still benefits because they have that talented guy. If there is a disagreement and a dud is drafted but the coach still gets production out of him... the team still benefits because they have a developed player. Either way it puts 1 persons focus almost soley on each of those individual tasks.
              Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by psychobear View Post
                This is something that has really left me scratching my head. Why did the Broncos decide to put him in charge of personell? A good number of NFL teams get the coaches input but they have someone else calling the shots on what trades you make, what free agents you pick up, and who you draft.

                McDaniels is a rookie head coach. Not too long ago he was just a QB coach. He has a lot now on his plate that he didn't have before. Giving him this responsibility just adds to it.

                It seems to me that first of all, the Cuter situation could have been avoided if they didn't give him control of this aspect. Even if Cutler were on the trading block... it wouldn't be the head coach that was trying to make that trade. It would instead be a GM saying this... and Cutler doesn't wonder about McDaniel's faith in him.

                Plus, a major flaw for a lot of head coaches is that they fall in love with their players. They have their pet projects and players they really like even if they just plain arn't as good as other players. McDaniel's trade inquiries for Cassell are a good example of that.

                Coaches may also favor certain positions. They may want a certain area of the team to be very strong... which is understandable but not at the expense of other positions. If you look at what McDaniels had done... he brought in a ton of RB's and DB's. Then he drafted some more. What gives?

                Then... in terms of a rookie head coach... he is evaluating players not on overall talent but by comparing them to others. Again... McDaniels move by trading the first... there was a guy he had valued higher on his board available and he made the move to get him. However, how would this player have been evaluated overall... in comparison to NFL talent and not just talent in 1 persons first draft. It's something he wasn't used to.

                People may be very critical of McDaniels but really he shouldn't have been given this responsibility. It's an area that he really didn't have experience (even if he does have experience as a coach). It's an area that he didn't know how to handle with tact and composure. Overall it's just something he wasn't ready to do. If nothing else if he weren't given this responsibility... all these terrible personell moves could be blamed on someone else and he could focus on what he was brought in to do.

                Some of you may be really mad at McDaniels right now but it was someone else that dropped the ball when they allowed him to take responsibility for personell.
                I see what you are saying and McDaniels is the bad guy in all this when he does not have to be. Plus where did he gain all this personnnel experience all of a sudden. A little separation of duties would have insulated hi m and helped him and he could still have major influence. Who knows, maybe he has some master plan that will kick as sin 2 years or so-and we will be dominant due to a team concept.

                What is a bit strange to me is that the Goodmans went with Bowlen to interview McD and then they get fired a month later. I think Jeff''s brother left too as he was a SW region scout. Not good-a month or so before the draft. I like the recent draft but I still have a hangover from losing Cutler. I think he will be something else in the coming years despite Chicago's QB history, and could have been awesome had he stayed here.

                I still maintain that had Shanny fired Slowik, and Shanny and Cutler would be here still, and we would be picked to win the AFC West or close. But maybe we have a whole new team energy with McD and that is the hope right now.
                But it is time to look forward.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cloud of dust View Post
                  I see what you are saying and McDaniels is the bad guy in all this when he does not have to be. Plus where did he gain all this personnnel experience all of a sudden. A little separation of duties would have insulated hi m and helped him and he could still have major influence. Who knows, maybe he has some master plan that will kick as sin 2 years or so-and we will be dominant due to a team concept.

                  What is a bit strange to me is that the Goodmans went with Bowlen to interview McD and then they get fired a month later. I think Jeff''s brother left too as he was a SW region scout. Not good-a month or so before the draft. I like the recent draft but I still have a hangover from losing Cutler. I think he will be something else in the coming years despite Chicago's QB history, and could have been awesome had he stayed here.

                  I still maintain that had Shanny fired Slowik, and Shanny and Cutler would be here still, and we would be picked to win the AFC West or close. But maybe we have a whole new team energy with McD and that is the hope right now.
                  But it is time to look forward.
                  I also found that odd. I also found it odd that one of the reasons stated for letting Shanny go was because he had too much power over Personnel... yet they gave that same power to his replacement? It seems like there may be something more to the story than we know... kinda like some moves were done in haste.

                  As you said, what's done is done. I've said that the Broncos are now my second favorite team because I am an Orton Fan (the Bears being my favorite) and I hope for good things for him and the Broncos.

                  This thought here in this thread was a fairly big paradigm shift for me. I didn't really like McDaniels (to an extent I still don't). The reason I didn't like him were the Personnel moves though. Really, is it his fault that he was thrust into this position of being in charge there? I mean, I can't fault him for wanting it. He may even be able to get better at running that portion of the team. In the end though, the blame lies elseware for giving him that responsibility when he was unqualified. He is clearly now on the hot seat because of those decisions before his new team has even played a game. That's not his fault...
                  Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by psychobear View Post

                    He has the final say so on all decisions and not Xanders which is why I termed it "Personnel Rights." It's in his contract.
                    How would you know what is in his contract? Has his contract become public knowledge.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by psychobear View Post
                      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ler/index.html

                      "The Broncos have gone out of their way to say the draft will be a collaboration between Xanders and McDaniels, but at the owners meetings last week, McDaniels intimated on multiple occasions that all personnel decisions will run through him. Part of the reason McDaniels got the job (and so much authority) was his stint in New England, where most recently he was the offensive coordinator under Bill Belichick."

                      He has the final say so on all decisions and not Xanders which is why I termed it "Personnel Rights." It's in his contract.
                      This is an article written by a sportswriter, with no quotes from Bowlen, Xanders, or McDaniels. Take it with a grain of salt, just like every other opinion by a writer.

                      I'm sure he has alot of input, it's his team.


                      Who said he had final say so?
                      Where is this season going?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oldster View Post
                        How would you know what is in his contract? Has his contract become public knowledge.
                        You can draw conclusions based on what you know. First of all... with the Cutler trade it was McDaniels on the phone. Second... his quote there. Third... who was it up there explaining the picks?

                        Like I said... a coaches input isn't necessarily bad. I think they should have a good amount of say so but I think there needs to be something in place to protect the organization from... well the things I mentioned in my original post.

                        It works for Bill though... as he has no emotions for his players as he makes cold calculating decisions with ice in his viens pumping from his cold black heart.
                        Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by yaz96 View Post
                          This is an article written by a sportswriter, with no quotes from Bowlen, Xanders, or McDaniels. Take it with a grain of salt, just like every other opinion by a writer.

                          I'm sure he has alot of input, it's his team.


                          Who said he had final say so?
                          I'd ask... who seems to be making the decisions from your point of view? Who seems to be on the hot seat... Xanders or McDaniels? If it is Xanders making these decisions why is he not protecting McDaniels (a situation that would be even MORE concerning. That's not the type of attitude you want flowing from the top on down).
                          Understand that I am a Bears fan but also that I have followed Orton's career. His ability to improve himself makes him a very easy guy to cheer for. I am here because I will continue to cheer for Orton unless his success interferes with the success of the Bears.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by psychobear View Post
                            You can draw conclusions based on what you know. First of all... with the Cutler trade it was McDaniels on the phone. Second... his quote there. Third... who was it up there explaining the picks?

                            Like I said... a coaches input isn't necessarily bad. I think they should have a good amount of say so but I think there needs to be something in place to protect the organization from... well the things I mentioned in my original post.

                            It works for Bill though... as he has no emotions for his players as he makes cold calculating decisions with ice in his viens pumping from his cold black heart.
                            Translation: I don't know squat and just threw that out there to reinforce my opinion hoping nobody would pick it up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by psychobear View Post
                              This is something that has really left me scratching my head. Why did the Broncos decide to put him in charge of personell? A good number of NFL teams get the coaches input but they have someone else calling the shots on what trades you make, what free agents you pick up, and who you draft.

                              McDaniels is a rookie head coach. Not too long ago he was just a QB coach. He has a lot now on his plate that he didn't have before. Giving him this responsibility just adds to it.

                              It seems to me that first of all, the Cuter situation could have been avoided if they didn't give him control of this aspect. Even if Cutler were on the trading block... it wouldn't be the head coach that was trying to make that trade. It would instead be a GM saying this... and Cutler doesn't wonder about McDaniel's faith in him.

                              Plus, a major flaw for a lot of head coaches is that they fall in love with their players. They have their pet projects and players they really like even if they just plain arn't as good as other players. McDaniel's trade inquiries for Cassell are a good example of that.

                              Coaches may also favor certain positions. They may want a certain area of the team to be very strong... which is understandable but not at the expense of other positions. If you look at what McDaniels had done... he brought in a ton of RB's and DB's. Then he drafted some more. What gives?

                              Then... in terms of a rookie head coach... he is evaluating players not on overall talent but by comparing them to others. Again... McDaniels move by trading the first... there was a guy he had valued higher on his board available and he made the move to get him. However, how would this player have been evaluated overall... in comparison to NFL talent and not just talent in 1 persons first draft. It's something he wasn't used to.

                              People may be very critical of McDaniels but really he shouldn't have been given this responsibility. It's an area that he really didn't have experience (even if he does have experience as a coach). It's an area that he didn't know how to handle with tact and composure. Overall it's just something he wasn't ready to do. If nothing else if he weren't given this responsibility... all these terrible personell moves could be blamed on someone else and he could focus on what he was brought in to do.

                              Some of you may be really mad at McDaniels right now but it was someone else that dropped the ball when they allowed him to take responsibility for personell.

                              This is the biggest, biggest difference I have with the organization currently.

                              I don't necessarily think he has any contractual "personnel rights". We had the Goodman's on board then all of a sudden, after they were fired, McD told everyone all football decisions would run through him.

                              Just speculation here, but something must have happened between him and the Goodmans. Xanders was hired, a self touted salary cap guy that doesn't have the requisite experience for scouting talent and managing personnel. All that means is that he is a McD butt kisser.

                              I agree that a GM & HC should philosophically be on the same page, but Xanders should have been in front of the Cutler situation since day 1 instead of McD risking a loss of the locker room. I have posted this many times before. McD's ego wouldn't allow it. Xanders took his first chance to run from this story and never came out until after the draft. He's a real stand up guy and great GM, huh? I think he should have been fired yesterday.

                              A lot of fans of other teams don't realize that Pat Bowlen trusts his people 100%. I think it's a great attribute for an owner and he is one of the best, but I think it may also be a problem with an inexperienced HC on board.

                              Somebody here posted a thread about hiring a GM before a coach in January. That thread, in retrospect, was spot on. I guess at the time, I thought the Goodmans were on board with McD. The other issue is that Pat values a HC more than a GM when they should be equal. That structure can't work here in Denver if the owner doesn't value the GM position as a separate entity with equal power. Because of Mike's legacy, the HC position will always be valued more although some could argue that it should have been a lesson learned.

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