Does Character Really Matter?

[Pratama]

So, I've been thinking about the character debate, since it seems like a factor in the draft for the FO was to select "character guys". Shanny e I would like to think what the rest of you think. Outside of guys whose character flaws make them criminals - Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, Matt Jones, Mike Vick, Plaxico Burress, etc., does it really matter?

Look at guys like T.O., Brandon Marshall, Chad Johnson, Larry Johnson - They are all (or have been at one time) premiere talent in the league and none of them are what I would call "character guys". To paint with a broad brush, they are guys that seem to have a pattern of making bad decisions rather than guys with malice in their hearts. Would you want these guys on your team?

To boil it down, here are some things that I question:

1) Are top players with character issues worth drafting/keeping?
2) How do you think their character issues affect their play?
3) Is it possible to tell the difference between a "bad-decision" guy and a "suspension - arrest" waiting to happen guy? How?

Other thoughts?

[Alastor]

I honestly am a little butt-hurt that you put Marshall in the same group as Pacman and TO.

Marshall is nothing like these two. Marshall is a kid who has a great heart and means well - he just tends to be impulsive and emotional and leaps into bad decisions. The other two are consciously malicious people who are selfish and nasty.

Marshall is a good kid. I happen to love the lil' turd. He'll get it figured out, and he's someone I personally can't help but like better every time I see him on TV or the news (when it's not girlfriend related).

Marshall needs a relationship counselor or he needs to just stay single. The other two people mentioned here have problems that extend far beyond being highly emotional, sensitive, and very expressive.

Marshall should not be mentioned with these other two idiots.


But does character matter? Ask Terrel Davis, Tyrone Braxton, Randy Gradishar, Tom Jackson, Deacon Jones, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott...

None of these people were all that great by talent alone. It's their character that made them so.

Character isn't a helpful thing. It's the only thing.

[Pratama]

I honestly am a little butt-hurt that you put Marshall in the same group as Pacman and TO.

Marshall is nothing like these two. Marshall is a kid who has a great heart and means well - he just tends to be impulsive and emotional and leaps into bad decisions. The other two are consciously malicious people who are selfish and nasty.

Marshall is a good kid. I happen to love the lil' turd. He'll get it figured out, and he's someone I personally can't help but like better every time I see him on TV or the news (when it's not girlfriend related).

Marshall needs a relationship counselor or he needs to just stay single. The other two people mentioned here have problems that extend far beyond being highly emotional, sensitive, and very expressive.

Marshall should not be mentioned with these other two idiots.


But does character matter? Ask Terrel Davis, Tyrone Braxton, Randy Gradishar, Tom Jackson, Deacon Jones, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott...

None of these people were all that great by talent alone. It's their character that made them so.

Character isn't a helpful thing. It's the only thing.

Good points. I agree with you for the most part. And just to clarify, I didnt put Marshall and Pacman in the same category. I put the athletes in two groups - ones with criminal intent (Pacman, Jones, Burress) and ones who make bad choices (Johnson x 2, T.O., Marsall).

I agree that Marshall is nowhere near the idiocy of T.O. nor as selfish as Ochocinco, but he does share a common thread with them in that he makes bad choices. For the record, I really, like Brandon - - I believe he has a good heart, and his head is in the right place as far as the team is concerned, but at some point when you keep making the same mistakes over and over and over, there is going to come a point where saying 'sorry' isnt good enough and his character flaws and poor judgement will impact the team.

If he has another off the field conduct issue, its likely that he could be suspended for half the season. For an impact player to leave the team for that duration will have a seriously negative impact on the team and perhaps even on his very promising career.

[Alastor]

Good points. I agree with you for the most part. And just to clarify, I didnt put Marshall and Pacman in the same category. I put the athletes in two groups - ones with criminal intent (Pacman, Jones, Burress) and ones who make bad choices (Johnson x 2, T.O., Marsall).

I agree that Marshall is nowhere near the idiocy of T.O. nor as selfish as Ochocinco, but he does share a common thread with them in that he makes bad choices. For the record, I really, like Brandon - - I believe he has a good heart, and his head is in the right place as far as the team is concerned, but at some point when you keep making the same mistakes over and over and over, there is going to come a point where saying 'sorry' isnt good enough and his character flaws and poor judgement will impact the team.

If he has another off the field conduct issue, its likely that he could be suspended for half the season. For an impact player to leave the team for that duration will have a seriously negative impact on the team and perhaps even on his very promising career.

I see what you're saying. I still don't put him with 85 and TO just because of the different natures of those players compared to Mashall, but I can't deny that "being a good kid and meaning well" will be enough to keep him from having the hammer fall on him if he doesn't knock it off.

Albeit reluctantly, I concede your points. As unfortunate as it may be, Brandon really does need to stop doing that stuff. Everyone's entitled to make mistakes, but I fear that Marshall may be out of chances here soon.

[Poindexter]

This discussion makes me wonder who the next big dog fighting, club shooting, drug selling, player stomping, gun running thug in the NFL is going to be. I think it's funny how every year the NFL takes a spin around the convict carousel.

I think Vince Young might be due for another mental breakdown. I have to agree with Alastor here. I think character plays a huge part in the game.

[broncolee]

Character does matter.

When it comes to bad character players, you have to look at how their behavior affects their play, their teammates' play, and the overall dynamic of the team.

There's no sense in having a bad character guy if his presence is going to do more harm than good.

Some guys who are considered bad character guys actually aren't bad teammates. If they have the talent and they are good teammates, they might as well be given a chance.

[broncos1997]

its not just about suspension, fines, etc. its about the distractions. think about it, would a team of "i want the ball" T.O's and chad johnsons have much chemistry? plus theres also the issue of respect and coachability (see dallas cowboys). having good character players means better leadership, better work ethic that makes them better as players, and most importantly (from bowlen's perspective) probably means somewhat of a lower salary.

[RealityBytes]

I agree....character counts.

Character like not lying to your starting QB.

Character like not lying to your fans.

Yup, character counts.

[CanDB]

Character should not be confused with nice guy who doesn't hit hard, or for that matter, doesn't get angry and a bit crazy on game day. Character means you tend to: stay out of trouble, have presence of mind to do / say the right things, be unselfish, go through the wall for your team, keep distractions at a complete minimum, be a generally good person off the field. Character folks are often intelligent and use information to the max. They work hard, study hard and do whatever they can to compete. And they are typically leaders.

These traits generally make them solid teammates, very coachable and focused on the job ahead.

.......As opposed to non character players who may be talented but weak in many of the above.....which can have a very adverse effect on the team.

[it'sjustagame]

I see what you're saying. I still don't put him with 85 and TO just because of the different natures of those players compared to Mashall, but I can't deny that "being a good kid and meaning well" will be enough to keep him from having the hammer fall on him if he doesn't knock it off.

Albeit reluctantly, I concede your points. As unfortunate as it may be, Brandon really does need to stop doing that stuff. Everyone's entitled to make mistakes, but I fear that Marshall may be out of chances here soon.

I ask you how can you put T.O., 85, and Marshall in the same catagory. Sure TO & 85 are diva's but when were TO & 85's last arrest i believe it was ........................ never. Do i think TO & 85 are a bigger problem in the locker room and on the field than Marshall? Yes. Marshalls off field choices are worse transgressions than TO & 85 have ever been. MAN i cant believe im defending TO

[jcdavey]

So, I've been thinking about the character debate, since it seems like a factor in the draft for the FO was to select "character guys". Shanny e I would like to think what the rest of you think. Outside of guys whose character flaws make them criminals - Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, Matt Jones, Mike Vick, Plaxico Burress, etc., does it really matter?

Look at guys like T.O., Brandon Marshall, Chad Johnson, Larry Johnson - They are all (or have been at one time) premiere talent in the league and none of them are what I would call "character guys". To paint with a broad brush, they are guys that seem to have a pattern of making bad decisions rather than guys with malice in their hearts. Would you want these guys on your team?

To boil it down, here are some things that I question:

1) Are top players with character issues worth drafting/keeping?
2) How do you think their character issues affect their play?
3) Is it possible to tell the difference between a "bad-decision" guy and a "suspension - arrest" waiting to happen guy? How?

Other thoughts?

matters more at qb IMO than any other position, unless the bad character is getting arrested

[Alastor]

I ask you how can you put T.O., 85, and Marshall in the same catagory. Sure TO & 85 are diva's but when were TO & 85's last arrest i believe it was ........................ never. Do i think TO & 85 are a bigger problem in the locker room and on the field than Marshall? Yes. Marshalls off field choices are worse transgressions than TO & 85 have ever been. MAN i cant believe im defending TO

That's a fair comment.

At the same time, Marshall's incidents extend to his inability to deal well with his girlfriends. That carried some legal consequences, this is true.

However, let's keep that in perspective. I'm not trying to minimize Marshall's mistakes, but they are in fact all centered around arguments with his girlfriends.

Yes, Marshall got ticketed for that.

That doesn't change his nature, his character, and which one of these "issues" I'd rather deal with.

I'll take Marshall and his problem with his girlfriends over the likes of TO and 85 any day - and especially on Sundays.

[tacmale]

I think so

Look at just a few of the greatest players and tell me character doesn't matter.

Just to name a few: John Elway, Brett Favre, Jerry Rice, Walter Peyton, Joe Theismann, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Rod Smith. The list goes on and on.

At least in my book if you want to be known as one of the greats you have to have character. TO and those guys will be known as good players, but not mention in the same breath with the type of players i mentioned above.

[it'sjustagame]

That's a fair comment.

At the same time, Marshall's incidents extend to his inability to deal well with his girlfriends. That carried some legal consequences, this is true.

However, let's keep that in perspective. I'm not trying to minimize Marshall's mistakes, but they are in fact all centered around arguments with his girlfriends.

Yes, Marshall got ticketed for that.

That doesn't change his nature, his character, and which one of these "issues" I'd rather deal with.

I'll take Marshall and his problem with his girlfriends over the likes of TO and 85 any day - and especially on Sundays.

Marshalls problems with his girlfriends means the number of games he plays can be in jepordy. The other dont have that problem. Lets hope that BM days of being a knucklehead are over.

[Alastor]

Marshalls problems with his girlfriends means the number of games he plays can be in jepordy. The other dont have that problem. Lets hope that BM days of being a knucklehead are over.

Agreed on all counts. On the other hand, his problem is easier to correct than those of the other two - and I don't believe that not being good at management relationships is remotely the character flaw that the others bring to the table.

Ultimately, it's far easier to help Brandon out than it is to help the likes of Ocho Cinco or TO.