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Does Character Really Matter?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by acpell671 View Post

    All I was trying to prove is that it's very difficult to judge these things when these kids are trying to put their best foot forward when trying to get or keep jobs.
    Fair enough. You made that point very well too. I can't refute it, nor would I want to.

    But if you're in the camp that feels that people can be distinguished as good and bad and it's that simple, Bmarsh gets no free ride just because he is on this team.
    Well, I don't agree it's simple, and I usually don't put people in those kinds of camps - unless there's a distinguishable pattern of behavior. I don't know if Phillip Rivers is a good guy or a bad guy. I don't know if Big Ben is a sinner or a saint. I think it's clear that TO and Pacman have substantial enough track records to make that call, though.

    I also believe I have frequent enough observation of Marshall to say he's a good person.

    It has nothing to do with what team he's on though. Hines Ward is another example of someone I've often stood up for over the years when people try to discredit him. I love that kid too (although he's no kid any more).

    But it has nothing to do with the team someone is on.

    Wouldn't you say that most prospective players fall into the "Bmarsh/Baker" categories than the Pacmans of the world?
    I'd say the vast majority of players fall into the Rod Smith or Brandon Stokely category where they're working hard all the time, realize their opportunity, and are good and giving people who try really hard all the time.

    I think a few fall into the Marshall category, where they struggle with the pressures of life and being in a different environment than what they're used to.

    I think a very small minority fall into the Pacman/Henry/Vick category. While I'd like to see less of those and I think the new NFL feels that way too, they're a reality. But they are the minority, and it appears that there will be fewer and fewer of this type of player around going forward.

    But no, I'd say most people in the NFL work their butts off, keep their noses clean, and are just trying to get through another day of life without hurting anyone. I think the vast majority of people do good. Some have trouble here and there. A precious few, are complete wastes of oxygen.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Alastor View Post


      I'd say the vast majority of players fall into the Rod Smith or Brandon Stokely category where they're working hard all the time, realize their opportunity, and are good and giving people who try really hard all the time.
      Fair points, except the above statement.

      The Bronco homer in me thinks that Rod Smith is one of the most special players out there. No, I absolutely don't think most players fit into his category. He is unique and special and one of my favorite players of all time. :salute!:

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      • #78
        Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
        Fair points, except the above statement.

        The Bronco homer in me thinks that Rod Smith is one of the most special players out there. No, I absolutely don't think most players fit into his category. He is unique and special and one of my favorite players of all time. :salute!:
        Fair enough, and I probably did overstate it. I think Rod Smith and Brandon Stokely are special (I still remember Stokely essentially saving Marshall's ass with that glove thing).

        Let's be more realistic then. I think most players fall into the "didn't get into any real trouble" category.

        But yeah, I agree and you were probably right to call me on it. The Smiths and Stokelys, Gradishars and Lynchs of the world are pretty rare. I should have chosen better examples.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
          Exerting physical dominance over someone who is weaker than you is not as bad as selling drugs? Says who? Sorry, but people who buy drugs are just as culpable as the ones selling it and they have a choice in the matter. Victims of abuse didn't get a choice in the matter, so yeah, I'd say that's worse.
          There is a reason you'd be looking at time in prison for getting caught selling that kind of weight in drugs. You punch your old lady in the jaw you post bail and go home that night. I'm not saying it's ok to slug the ole lady, mind you...

          Now doing drugs is a victimless crime usually, unless you're in deep.
          The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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          • #80
            Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
            There is a reason you'd be looking at time in prison for getting caught selling that kind of weight in drugs. You punch your old lady in the jaw you post bail and go home that night. I'm not saying it's ok to slug the ole lady, mind you...

            Now doing drugs is a victimless crime usually, unless you're in deep.
            And that reason wouldn't have anything to do with politics or the war on drugs would it? Please tell me what that reason is because I'm curious as to why you think that selling drugs is a worse character flaw than beating on a defenseless person?

            Selling drugs is a bad choice that someone makes often because of the situation they are in or greed. People who buy the drugs are just as responsible for the drugs being sold. Beating up on someone who is weaker than you is a major psychological problem that exists only in the mind of the abuser. Is the punishment equal or fair? No. But does that make it any less morally reprehensible because of it? Absolutely not.

            I'm sorry, but I don't understand your logic at all.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
              And that reason wouldn't have anything to do with politics or the war on drugs would it? Please tell me what that reason is because I'm curious as to why you think that selling drugs is a worse character flaw than beating on a defenseless person?

              Selling drugs is a bad choice that someone makes often because of the situation they are in or greed. People who buy the drugs are just as responsible for the drugs being sold. Beating up on someone who is weaker than you is a major psychological problem that exists only in the mind of the abuser. Is the punishment equal or fair? No. But does that make it any less morally reprehensible because of it? Absolutely not.

              I'm sorry, but I don't understand your logic at all.
              The reason why is because when your selling that kind of weight, you are putting drugs in the hands of kids, you are packing weapons, you are laundering money, you "might be" funding terrorism (but this is politcal and not blanket). The more weight you supply (in drugs) the more likely someone dies from the drugs or the black market shenanigans that go along with the drug trade.

              I agree the politics are a part of it as well. Looks like B marsh didn't strike the woman anyhow so ..

              I also think if you are a large man like B Marsh, you have more of a responsibility to control your temper and physical actions against people because, you DO have the power to severely injure someone -- and not just a weak woman, but any person.
              Last edited by dizzolve; 05-25-2009, 09:03 PM.
              The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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              • #82
                Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                The reason why is because when your selling that kind of weight, you are putting drugs in the hands of kids, you are packing weapons, you are laundering money, you "might be" funding terrorism (but this is politcal and not blanket). The more weight you supply (in drugs) the more likely someone dies from the drugs or the black market shenanigans that go along with the drug trade.

                I agree the politics are a part of it as well. Looks like B marsh didn't strike the woman anyhow so ..

                I also think if you are a large man like B Marsh, you have more of a responsibility to control your temper and physical actions against people because, you DO have the power to severely injure someone -- and not just a weak woman, but any person.


                Selling drugs, laundering money, funding terrorism and packing weapons are all different crimes. Werent we talking about selling drugs as a character flaw. You are proving my point that the legal punishment for drug distribution is every bit political and has less to do with character flaws or what is morally right or wrong. I agree that the consequences of not fighting the war on drugs are far reaching, but it has nothing to do with character.

                So basically, you are telling me that the guy who sold drugs on his street corner for money for his family is more flawed than the guy who beats on his wife? This is your stance? I still don't understand it.

                Either way, I don't get your logic and don't appreciate you undermining the severity of what is wrong with abusers, however, I think we should end it here and agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by acpell671 View Post
                  Selling drugs, laundering money, funding terrorism and packing weapons are all different crimes. Werent we talking about selling drugs as a character flaw. You are proving my point that the legal punishment for drug distribution is every bit political and has less to do with character flaws or what is morally right or wrong. I agree that the consequences of not fighting the war on drugs are far reaching, but it has nothing to do with character.

                  So basically, you are telling me that the guy who sold drugs on his street corner for money for his family is more flawed than the guy who beats on his wife? This is your stance? I still don't understand it.

                  Either way, I don't get your logic and don't appreciate you undermining the severity of what is wrong with abusers, however, I think we should end it here and agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion.
                  Im not trying to be a buzz kill or anything, but I would move the political talk to a different forum if I were you guys. Since this isnt specifically in reference the the Marshall issue, you guys could be in violation of the CoC. Just dont want to see you guys get in trouble.
                  sigpic

                  I adopt andrewmlb.

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