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Has there ever been a worse off season?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Lomax View Post
    Let's take a look at that list.

    Young was a castoff from Tampa Bay. He had a 3-13 record with that team and was deemed a bust and shipped off to San Francisco. Was he considered a "great" QB at that time?

    Brady was a 6th round draft pick and was passed over by the almighty Patriots 5 times because of his vast and clearly evident greatness.

    Eli Manning has a career 76.1 QB rating. Those sure are some "great" numbers, and clearly places him among the league's elite passers.

    Warner was an out of work AFL player...oops, my bad, he did have a nice grocery store job before getting picked up as a backup. What a typical place to shop for a top flight QB.

    There were people all along the way saying the same thing about them that you're probably saying about Orton. And yet they replaced guys who in some cases were thought to be irreplaceable. You'd be lying if you claimed to know Young was great in Tampa Bay, or Warner was great coming out of the AFL. Just like you have no clue what level Orton can attain playing under a different system with a different team.
    You are correct, sort of. But Young and Warner both put up huge numbers in their first legitimate shot in the NFL. Tampa Bay wasn't even as good as some college teams in those days. But the first chance Young got with SF, he won a lot. Same with Warner in St.Louis. Orton had average numbers on what most people consider to be a fairly good team. It's not like he's been putting up average numbers on a terrible team. In fact, most people believe they will win more with Cutler than they did with Orton. Now if you are being honest with yourself, you'd probably agree with that. That is my entire point. However many games we win with Orton, we could have won more with Cutler. Why? BECAUSE HE IS BETTER!
    All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

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    • #62
      This is the worst offseason in NFL history.
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      • #63
        Originally posted by Alastor View Post
        I don't know yet. We'll have to see what Ayers and Moreno (because having the extra pick allowed us to do that) bring to the table. We'll also have to see how the other picks pan out, how Orton pans out, how Cutler does in Chicago, and how well the new system works.



        Average teams don't win Super Bowls. Bad quarterbacks on good teams do. Great quarterbacks on bad teams don't. Trust me. We know a lot about that here in Denver. We've proven it many times. Three by my count at least.
        Really? Name three offensive starters on the 2001 Patriots team that won the Super Bowl. Hell Brady didn't throw to a Pro Bowl wide receiver until 2007. And the Colts.......without Manning they are average, at best. A great receiver, a great safety and a great D End. That's it, after Manning. That's all they had when they beat the Bears. Average. And the Steelers team that beat the Seahawks? 10-6, last team in the playoffs on the AFC side. Average record for sure, but a little better than average team. Great quarterback.
        I never said bad teams. Never once used the word bad. Great quarterbacks on average teams win Super Bowls.
        All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

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        • #64
          the worst season ever...


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          • #65
            Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
            I already said it.

            1984-84 Baltimore Colts offseason.

            The fans didn't lose a QB, WR and a coach, they lost the WHOLE DAMN TEAM
            I'm pretty sure he was wondering about OUR team, not somebody elses...

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
              Really? Name three offensive starters on the 2001 Patriots team that won the Super Bowl.
              63 Andruzzi, Joe OG

              80 Brown, Troy WR

              54 Bruschi, Tedy LB

              27 Buckley, Terrell DB

              51 Cox, Bryan LB

              87 Emanuel, Bert WR

              33 Faulk, Kevin RB

              88 Glenn, Terry WR

              Jones, Kenyatta OT

              72 Light, Matt OT

              55 McGinest, Willie DE

              36 Milloy, Lawyer DB

              96 Mitchell, Brandon DT

              86 Patten, David WR

              95 Phifer, Roman LB

              98 Pleasant, Anthony DE

              93 Seymour, Richard DT

              4 Vinatieri, Adam K

              50 Vrabel, Mike LB

              85 Wiggins, Jermaine TE



              These are excerpts from the 2001 New England Patriots Roster. Source.

              Clearly, this team had no talent around Tom Brady.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by BarkdogRX7 View Post
                I know there have been threads on this but I mean, when it's all said and done, even tho it's been all summer we will have lost our Head Coach who won SB's, an up and coming Pro Bowl QB whose not in his prime, and possibly a top 10 WR and our #1 guy...we drafted goofy, signed a dozen 30 yr old RB's and somehow got older on Defense (In some areas), In my 26 years on Earth, this is the lamest off season ever, I think Josh is just cutting days off his career here by not fixing this stuff
                There may have been offseasons just as bad from a personnel standpoint. The difference was, in years past, we had Shanahan at the helm, who usually made up for his many personnel mistakes (atleast until Jim Goodman) with his unparalleled coaching skills.

                The new coach has done some things that have dragged the morale of the franchise down, not to mention lose an excellent personnel guy and a locker-room leader. However, he has also made a few good moves that ought to make up for them somewhat. The trouble is, instead of going forward, the net result of the offseason is one of standing still. The biggest neutralizer for the losses we've had is the continued stability on the offensive line, the presence of Rick Dennison and Bobby Turner and finally the arrival of Mike Nolan and Knowshon Moreno.
                Hoping for a defensive-minded head coach and a return to the ZBS on offense. At the very least, no more cheaters for head coach.

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                • #68
                  I heard John Clayton on a radio interview lastweek say he has never seen a more dysfunctional offseason in his entire career than this current Bronco offseason.


                  That dude is old too!!
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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Pura Vida View Post
                    I heard John Clayton on a radio interview lastweek say he has never seen a more dysfunctional offseason in his entire career than this current Bronco offseason.


                    That dude is old too!!
                    Then either he was using hyperbole, or has gone senile.

                    This isn't remotely the worst off-season we've had in even the last 10 years, and ours typically go better than most people's.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                      Well, bear in mind I say that with hesitation. It's in no way Brandon Marshall's fault that some gang-bangers went and got an AK-47 and started shooting at people.

                      It's never the victim's fault and I'm not "laying blame" on Marshall for it. It's not his fault under any circumstance. Words in a bar are words in a bar and nothing more.

                      I'm just saying he's widely regarding as having been near an awful lot of trouble in his very short tenure as a Denver Bronco. He'd had a lot of trouble before he got here too.
                      So are you saying you agree with getting rid of a GREAT YOUNG WR (the 2nd hardest position in the NFL) and you agree with getting rid of a GREAT YOUNG QB (the number 1 hardest position in the NFL) and getting number 1 picks that will most likely no be as good or might not last...

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                      • #71
                        I posted this on another forum.

                        I am a Colts fan, but was a big time TD-Elway-Caff-Rod Smith-Sharpe fan back in the day. Also one of my best friends here in Indy is from Denver. Anyways enough about me. Here are some of my comments about this whole situations.

                        "I think everyone is freaking out on DEN a little. There is no denying that McD was dumb to trade Cutler and now Marshall. The fact is, McD couldn't lead the locker room with those two guys around whether we consider them cancers or not.

                        I still think DEN is as good or better than the Chief, and I think DEN can still play for a .500 season.

                        They got a good Oline w/ a once in a decade LT, some good RB's with different styles, will probably run the ball more, Orton still has more weapons than he did in CHI, Orton will prob be comfortable with Lloyd in the mix, Caldwell/Stokley are both multi year vets and will find receptions, and Royal is a very talented young player. As you can see, I still think their offense can put up a few points.

                        The big problem is still the D, and if I'm McD I'm asking for a good 3-4 defensive players and a 1st or 2nd round pick for Marshall.

                        One last thing I'm looking to address with all the McD slip ups: The SEA draft day trade. Everyone views this as a terrible trade swapping next year's DEN 1st for the rights to Alphonso Smith. Well, you're not looking at this from the right angle. Year in year out, every team in the top 10-15 picks is usually looking to trade down anyways from the signing bonuses and guarenteed money these rookies want. McD probably would prefer to use that money on a veteran for next year's FA. I do believe DEN should have got a bit more value like maybe a 4th round pick from SEA as well. However, if you're a team looking to avoid paying a rookie a lot of money than this was possibly a better trade than we think.

                        I think we should all sit back and watch thing play out. I've seen a lot of DEN fans on other sites already calling for his firing. You guys have no clue. McD could be the next great coach."
                        __________________

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                        • #72
                          Ooooh Alastor used internet resources on you

                          He's so smart
                          Last edited by #28; 06-16-2009, 08:53 AM.
                          sigpic

                          TZ

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by blackchild View Post
                            So are you saying you agree with getting rid of a GREAT YOUNG WR (the 2nd hardest position in the NFL) and you agree with getting rid of a GREAT YOUNG QB (the number 1 hardest position in the NFL) and getting number 1 picks that will most likely no be as good or might not last...

                            I don't agree that WR is the second-hardest position in the NFL. Have you seen some of the morons that play this position?

                            I don't know if I agree with getting rid of Cutler or not. I don't think there was much choice. He demanded a trade and wasn't calling anyone back - even the owner. Do I think we got good value for him? Yes. Do I think it was a good idea? I don't think it was ever an idea. I don't think that was something anyone in Denver willingly planned to have happen.

                            I don't agree that QB is the hardest position in the NFL. The Wonderlic scores suggest that the hardest positions in the NFL are Center and Offensive Tackle respectively. It requires not only a mind, but a body that takes and delivers enormous punishment each and every play.

                            To answer the point of the post, in this case Marshall is very talented. He also has significant drawbacks both on and off the field and these matter a great deal as well.

                            When/if he grows up some more, he'll probably be fantastic. Right now... I don't know. When he's playing and doing things right, he's unbelievable. When he's not in those moments though, he's being absolutely ridiculous.

                            He's very much a double-edged sword. I like the kid, but he does indeed have a lot of issues that nullify or even drop his overall value compared to his athleticism.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                              Then either he was using hyperbole, or has gone senile.

                              This isn't remotely the worst off-season we've had in even the last 10 years, and ours typically go better than most people's.
                              That is your opinion. One that Clayton, me, and most others do not share. I don't think he has to be senile to say this offseason is a mess. We have not had close to this much drama in a single offseason, ever. I can't think of a team that has other than maybe some that moved.

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                              • #75
                                Don't you think part of the problem is that news outlets have become havens for excessive speculation, particularly before a problem even develops? ESPN doesn't even report actual news anymore. They pounce on a story and immediately exaggerate it. Then you have bloggers, who are bastions of speculation and rumors posing as facts.

                                Let's face it. The Broncos are in overhaul mode. We have had the same coach for 14 years. This is practically the same as if we moved to a new city. It won't be easy to accept all of these changes right away. But to call it the worst offseason ever without seeing a single down of football is just plain reactionary.
                                sigpic

                                Supporting McD since 2009.

                                Adopted Bronco....Daniel Graham!

                                Adopted by Chillez! :salute!:

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