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  • How do you build a consistent winner?

    I was bored today so I started looking at how the recent championship teams were built. I'm trying to be objective so don't hesitate to tell me if you see any bias. I'll say up front that I'm a McD supporter and wasn't sad to see Jay go but I have no ill will toward him and won't be upset if he turns out to be the Hall of Fame talent many believe he is. At this point I'm ore interested in whether you build around him or choose him to compliment your building.

    Patriots - Among their accompishments are 3 championships and the longest single season and multi-season winning streaks in league history, and of course the single season records for total points and points per game. BB came in and built on the foundation left by Parcells but things didn't take off until Brady came in after the Bledsoe injury. So in this case the QB, drafted in round 6 and developed internally, was the last piece in place.

    Steelers - 2 championships and a 15-1 regular season record before losing to the Pats in '05. They've been well known for not overpaying superstars and have often had slow starts because of player turnover. Built a strong defense and running game and became a top team when they added Big Ben. Also QB was the final piece but came in as a 1st rounder who lasted to their pick because of a strong class and became a starter almost immediately due to injury.

    Giants - Strong defensive team, especially against the pass, solid O-line and running game. Added Eli and won a Super Bowl. Again, chose a top flight talent coming out of college and made him the final piece.

    Rams - Won a Super Bowl and went again the following season. Added Vermiel, installed his system, got Trent Green to be the trigger man and again due to injury ended up with Warner leading a monster offense. He had the most unconventional path to success of any recent QB.

    Colts - Drafted Manning number one, had him start from day one, had the same OC, same favorite target, same basic philosophy the entire time. Lots of growing pains and near misses before winning it all but year in year out success..

    I left out the Ravens and Bucs because their success was more one hit wonder. They continued to be winning teams but not nearly the teams they were in the championship seasons and I believe a parrt of that was caused by messing with the winning formula and dumping QBs who, despite shortcomings, led their teams to rings.

    My conclusion is that while it's proven that you can build a team around a star QB and ride that to success, it's easier and more sustainable to build a team and then find a QB to take you the rest of the way. If this holds up it bodes well for both the Broncos and the Bears, assuming Jay can actually be that last piece. Maybe it's not as fun to cheer for the "system" but it appears to lead to having more to cheer about.
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  • #2
    Originally posted by expatRick View Post
    I was bored today so I started looking at how the recent championship teams were built. I'm trying to be objective so don't hesitate to tell me if you see any bias. I'll say up front that I'm a McD supporter and wasn't sad to see Jay go but I have no ill will toward him and won't be upset if he turns out to be the Hall of Fame talent many believe he is. At this point I'm ore interested in whether you build around him or choose him to compliment your building.

    Patriots - Among their accompishments are 3 championships and the longest single season and multi-season winning streaks in league history, and of course the single season records for total points and points per game. BB came in and built on the foundation left by Parcells but things didn't take off until Brady came in after the Bledsoe injury. So in this case the QB, drafted in round 6 and developed internally, was the last piece in place.

    Steelers - 2 championships and a 15-1 regular season record before losing to the Pats in '05. They've been well known for not overpaying superstars and have often had slow starts because of player turnover. Built a strong defense and running game and became a top team when they added Big Ben. Also QB was the final piece but came in as a 1st rounder who lasted to their pick because of a strong class and became a starter almost immediately due to injury.

    Giants - Strong defensive team, especially against the pass, solid O-line and running game. Added Eli and won a Super Bowl. Again, chose a top flight talent coming out of college and made him the final piece.

    Rams - Won a Super Bowl and went again the following season. Added Vermiel, installed his system, got Trent Green to be the trigger man and again due to injury ended up with Warner leading a monster offense. He had the most unconventional path to success of any recent QB.

    Colts - Drafted Manning number one, had him start from day one, had the same OC, same favorite target, same basic philosophy the entire time. Lots of growing pains and near misses before winning it all but year in year out success..

    I left out the Ravens and Bucs because their success was more one hit wonder. They continued to be winning teams but not nearly the teams they were in the championship seasons and I believe a parrt of that was caused by messing with the winning formula and dumping QBs who, despite shortcomings, led their teams to rings.

    My conclusion is that while it's proven that you can build a team around a star QB and ride that to success, it's easier and more sustainable to build a team and then find a QB to take you the rest of the way. If this holds up it bodes well for both the Broncos and the Bears, assuming Jay can actually be that last piece. Maybe it's not as fun to cheer for the "system" but it appears to lead to having more to cheer about.
    I give you credit. The natural inclination would be that the QB is the common thread (challenged by the teams you left out ironically), but you didn't fall in that trap.

    Every one of those teams had great defenses. Even the Rams when they won had a good defense that was in the top 3 in creating turnovers.

    What we have to do to build a winning team is build our D-line over the next few years and get 3 decent pass-rushing linebackers. I believe our D-line is better now, but it couldn't get much worse. I think if we do that, then with our running game, and our thin air, we will be perenial contenders. That's what's stopping us now I believe.
    Last edited by Crazy8; 06-18-2009, 05:04 AM.

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    • #3
      As a Patriots fan, one of the key things in their success was the ability to build along both the offensive and defensive lines over a span of about 3 years while plugging in in house/free agent talent into the linebacker area and utilizing rookies at skill positions (WR, TE).

      It's a cliche but the Patriots built their team through the draft, more often than not. While they made big signings (Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel), a lot of their talent came from the draft and they found talent in the mid to later rounds.

      Many people look at the Patriots and don't realize that in reality, it took them 3 years really to become The Patriots (They went 5-11, overachieved a lot in 2001, and then went 9-7 in 2002). They also cut or traded several fan favorites within those 3 years (QB Drew Bledsoe, S Lawyer Milloy, WR Terry Glenn).

      2000 Draft: They got G Adrian Klemm in the 2nd Round, QB Tom Brady in the 6th Round, and FB Patrick Pass in the 7th Round.

      2001 Draft: They got DE Richard Seymour in the 1st round and T Matt Light in the 2nd round.

      2002 Draft: This IMO was their key draft. TE Daniel Graham in the 1st round, WR Deion Branch in the 2nd round, DE Jarvis Green in the 4th round, and WR David Givens in the 7th round.

      Over a span of 3 drafts, the Patriots were able to build their team a bit with 9 starters or key role players.

      I think the Broncos have a good nucleus right now offensively and are making strides all over position wise. If they follow the Patriots, I can see it taking 2-3 drafts for the real "core" of the team to start getting built whether it be offensively or defensively.
      "I will pray for you. I will pray for you. I will sell my soul for something pure and true... someone like you." - Garbage #1 Crush

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      • #4
        Opposite of how our entire offseason has went. Thats a good start.

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        • #5
          To what most of the previous posters have said, ...

          ... I would like to add:

          -team attitude prevalent;

          -individuals not getting paid top dollar in order to remunerate teammates appropriately;

          -discipline;

          -intelligent coaching emphasizing all three phases and how they interact;

          -and, toughness.

          I would suugest altering the title of this thread to "How to Build a Consistent Winning Team".
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • #6
            You need strong and consistent offensive and defensive line that can do their job year in and out. You need cohesion at the QB position and it should be effective. But most importantly, you need a reliable coaching staff that finds ways to win every single season.

            We have one of these things, right now.

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            • #7
              I believe the key to building a winner starts with the ability to generate a pass rush. It makes the DB's job so much easier. Look at the '07 Giants and the '02 Bucs, and the Patriots. The other major thing is a QB either the franchise type like Brady or Rothlesberger or an intelligent experienced QB like Warner. The Broncos haven't gone in this direction whatsoever. I really hope McDaniels knows what he's doing, because to me the Broncos no longer resemble a title contender.

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              • #8
                It's quite funny, to me, that the two teams you cited towards the end of the
                post as winning a SB then declining are the two teams without stable QBs.
                Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

                ^^^Get used to it.^^^

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                • #9
                  ALL consistent winning teams over the past 20 years have had very good QB's. The only one that hasn't are the Steelers. You win SB's two ways. You either have one of the best all time defenses or you have a very good QB with a decent team built around him. The teams that win it with some of the all time best defenses are not nearly as consistent as the ones that do it with good QB's. If you look more at the teams that are consistently in the playoffs and consistently going deep in the playoffs, they fit exactly what I have said.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Zealander View Post
                    You need strong and consistent offensive and defensive line that can do their job year in and out. You need cohesion at the QB position and it should be effective. But most importantly, you need a reliable coaching staff that finds ways to win every single season.

                    We have one of these things, right now.
                    This is the best way to build a team, IMO. I also agree with everything you say. The one thing may be different but I see it as the o-line is the only thing we have right now.

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                    • #11
                      FA has impacted the game in the last 20 years to a greater extent, it is easier to keep one QB than an entire D intact.

                      Originally posted by jhns View Post
                      ALL consistent winning teams over the past 20 years have had very good QB's. The only one that hasn't are the Steelers. You win SB's two ways. You either have one of the best all time defenses or you have a very good QB with a decent team built around him. The teams that win it with some of the all time best defenses are not nearly as consistent as the ones that do it with good QB's. If you look more at the teams that are consistently in the playoffs and consistently going deep in the playoffs, they fit exactly what I have said.

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                      • #12
                        Seems to me its defense and mainly the front 7. You often hear about the SB champions that didnt have great QB's (Ravens & Bucs). However you never hear about a SB Champion without a playmaking defense. Yes even the Colts had a play making D. Freeney and Sanders were great playmakers in their SB run.
                        My friends over at Sports Radio Interviews sent me a link to an interview Pat Bowlen did with a Chicago-area radio station. While there is nothing earth-shattering here. Below is a segment of the transcript -

                        What are the Bears getting in Jay Cutler?

                        “They’re getting an extremely talented young quarterback.”


                        Some one Please name me the last successful NFL QB that had to be taught how to throw the ball correctly.

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                        • #13
                          I think the Steelers analysis is a little innacurate. They're defense gets all the credit but if you look at how they draft, they put a lot of emphasis on offense. In the first round they've taken Big Ben in 04, Heath Miller in 05, Holmes in 06 and Mendenhall in 08. The thing that makes the Colts special besides having a HOF QB is that they always hit on their first round picks

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by it'sjustagame View Post
                            Seems to me its defense and mainly the front 7. You often hear about the SB champions that didnt have great QB's (Ravens & Bucs). However you never hear about a SB Champion without a playmaking defense. Yes even the Colts had a play making D. Freeney and Sanders were great playmakers in their SB run.
                            I think people misunderstand good defenses. Just because the Colts defense
                            played great in the playoffs as did the Rams, that doesn't mean they had good
                            defenses. They just do what good teams do, and showed up to play the big
                            game harder and better than the other team.
                            Club Leader: Robert Griffin III > Andrew Luck

                            ^^^Get used to it.^^^

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think you guys all missed my point here, which is that it's much more feasible to build the team and then add the QB than to choose a QB and build the team around him. Only Peyton Manning was the starting point for winning it all and that took years and has resulted in just one ring.
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