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Who has been our best QB since Elway?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by MJA View Post
    It depends how you define the question. Plummer was the most successful QB for Denver but Cutler in my opinion was the better QB (Statistically).

    It's hard to put these two in a vacuum and determine if Cutler would have performed better with the 2005 Broncos or if Plummer would still have been successful with the 2008 version. It's open to interpretation and I don't begrudge anyone who picks either Cutler or Plummer.

    If you picked Orton however, you need to get your head examined.
    If I was to pick between Cutler and Plummer to start a franchise around, I'd take Cutler all day long, but what we're talking about here is the success had by the Broncos since Elway retired.
    You cannot bring: "ifs" "buts" "should've's", "could'ves" to this type of discussion.
    You have to rely on and take into consideration data, statistics that showed in what period did the Denver Broncos enjoy the best success since Elway retired...
    It wasn't during the Cutler's era, was it?
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    • #77
      This is easy... has to be Plummer. Best QB=most wins/success in playoffs/etc.

      For all Jay is, he never led us to an AFC championship game, and though he is only in the first part of his career, Plummer's resume with the Broncos has been much more impressive.

      No brainer
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      • #78
        Originally posted by dragster69 View Post
        If I was to pick between Cutler and Plummer to start a franchise around, I'd take Cutler all day long, but what we're talking about here is the success had by the Broncos since Elway retired.
        You cannot bring: "ifs" "buts" "should've's", "could'ves" to this type of discussion.
        You have to rely on and take into consideration data, statistics that showed in what period did the Denver Broncos enjoy the best success since Elway retired...
        It wasn't during the Cutler's era, was it?
        You're talking about TEAM wins which isn't a QB stat. Cutler is the better QB. We had more TEAM wins with Plummer on the roster. It doesn't mean Plummer was the reason we won, but we did in fact get more wins with him as the starting QB.

        The OP left the question completely open to interpretation. He never said anything about which QB we had the most team wins with or which QB was starting when we had the most team success.
        2 of the top 3 NFL QBs of all time have been Broncos

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        • #79
          Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
          My mom who is a psykologist, has allways said;

          If you think everyone around you is cracy, you might take a look at yourself!

          Lets take it in the simple way
          • the team under his leadership had the highest win percentage in Bronco history

            What I did not realise is that Plummer was the QB in NFL history with the largest amount of come from behind victories (Elway does not even feature on that list - and neither does Cuddles), as well as being the 4th best QB in NFL history to hold onto a lead. WOW!!!!

            they made the playoffs every year

            they played at a time where AFC West was considered the most competitive division in NFL

            they made the AFC Championship, after beating out the team favoured to take the SB

            it was the only team that had positive win ratio against the patriots

            they posted regular 4-5 game winning streaks vs. 2 game winning straks with Cuddles

            the team started loosing the instant Cuddles came in


          The only reason that many cannot comprehend how good he actually was for the team, is the blame laid on him for two games against the Colts, and one against the Steelers. All three games where the defence could not hold, and the rungame could not produce, and especially the Steelers game where Joey Porter blew through our O-line on 2/3 of the plays.

          The venemous attacks on Plummer amazes me. He was a great force on the team.

          The "Snake" was great to watch, albeit, that when he blew up it was mostly in the nationally televised games.
          I agree with you on most of what you said about Plummer, but I want to clear up one point: Elway has the most 4th qtr come from behind wins or ties in league history, 47 to be exact. I don't know exactly where Jake falls on that list, but Elway is the leader.
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          • #80
            What, no option for Van Pelt? He was always there when we needed him!


            I voted Cutler though. You give Cutler the top defenses and running games that Plummer had and we are deep playoffs both years he started.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by BroncsSB#3 View Post
              You're talking about TEAM wins which isn't a QB stat. Cutler is the better QB. We had more TEAM wins with Plummer on the roster. It doesn't mean Plummer was the reason we won, but we did in fact get more wins with him as the starting QB.

              The OP left the question completely open to interpretation. He never said anything about which QB we had the most team wins with or which QB was starting when we had the most team success.
              It doesn't matter. You gauge the success of the QB by the achievements of his team. You couldn't say Plummer was not the best QB since Elway when his personal stats, team wins and play-offs success indicate otherwise.
              I don't know how you could deviate from that to say otherwise. You have to put together a certain criteria that will best and fairly compare those QB's.
              Like I've said, Cutler is the best QB's of all of them as far as pure talent, but as far as accomplishments, there's no comparison...
              Last edited by dragster69; 06-19-2009, 12:07 PM.
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              • #82
                Originally posted by dragster69 View Post
                It doesn't matter. You gauge the success of the QB by the achievements of his team. You couldn't say Plummer was not the best QB since Elway when his personal stats, team wins and play-offs success indicate otherwise.
                I don't know how you could deviate from that to say otherwise. You have to put together a certain criteria that will best and fairly compare those QB's.
                Like I've said, Cutler is the best QB's of all of them as far as pure talent, but as far as accomplishments, there's no comparison...
                The question isn't "Who was the most accomplished Denver QB since Elway?" It's who is the best. Plummer accomplished more but when I look at his stats (I can't really remember his play, I was 13-14) and then look at Cutler (Who I do remember) I see Cutler was better in the 2nd half and equal to Plummer in the 1st half. Cutler was better than Plummer after 10+ pass attempts usually and Cutler usually threw more pass attempts.

                The fact that Cutler did that without a great running game (They were ranked statistically high, but they didn't keep the defense honest since they didn't have a signature back) seals the deal for me that Cutler was the better QB. He was asked to do more than Plummer and still managed to keep his stats relatively high.
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                • #83
                  Originally posted by 80stheman View Post
                  I agree with you on most of what you said about Plummer, but I want to clear up one point: Elway has the most 4th qtr come from behind wins or ties in league history, 47 to be exact. I don't know exactly where Jake falls on that list, but Elway is the leader.
                  You are absolutely right, I meant to write percentage and not number, as it was in the article someone else was kind enough to post.

                  For the ones so in lowe with Cutler... Well Yea!!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by MJA View Post
                    The question isn't "Who was the most accomplished Denver QB since Elway?" It's who is the best. Plummer accomplished more but when I look at his stats (I can't really remember his play, I was 13-14) and then look at Cutler (Who I do remember) I see Cutler was better in the 2nd half and equal to Plummer in the 1st half. Cutler was better than Plummer after 10+ pass attempts usually and Cutler usually threw more pass attempts.

                    The fact that Cutler did that without a great running game (They were ranked statistically high, but they didn't keep the defense honest since they didn't have a signature back) seals the deal for me that Cutler was the better QB. He was asked to do more than Plummer and still managed to keep his stats relatively high.
                    I think the question went right over your head and several other peoples. When the op asked who our best Qb has been, he didnt mean best as in most talented.
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                    • #85
                      Plummer of course. Dude was a true winner, and played with passion.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by VenomousDB View Post
                        I think the question went right over your head and several other peoples. When the op asked who our best Qb has been, he didnt mean best as in most talented.
                        I know it's not about the most talented, thats why I'm going off of statistics. The question wasn't most accomplished or most talented, it was the best QB. I think Cutler was the best QB based off his statistics when compared with Plummer.
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                        I like McDaniels, he will be a good coach. Just not for this team. Belichick needed his Cleveland stint to become the coach he is now and McDaniels is showing the same signs.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by MJA View Post
                          I know it's not about the most talented, thats why I'm going off of statistics. The question wasn't most accomplished or most talented, it was the best QB. I think Cutler was the best QB based off his statistics when compared with Plummer.
                          Yeah but for some odd reason you want to discount win/loss column...Thats a statistic, and an important one at that.

                          Too bad you cant measure passion with numbers...
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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by VenomousDB View Post
                            Yeah but for some odd reason you want to discount win/loss column...Thats a statistic, and an important one at that.

                            Too bad you cant measure passion with numbers...
                            W/L is important, but there are too many factors that go into that for me to solely award "Best QB" to the guy with the most wins. Plummer had a top 10 defense while Cutler's was bottom 5.

                            Also, passion is important but I never remembered teammates saying Cutler was passionless. I thought the consensus was that the team liked him and that he lead them well on the field.

                            You can have as much "passion" and "intangibles" as you want, but you won't win if your defense sucks.
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                            I like McDaniels, he will be a good coach. Just not for this team. Belichick needed his Cleveland stint to become the coach he is now and McDaniels is showing the same signs.

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                            • #89
                              Even though Cutler was the most talented. We were the best with Plummer taking the snaps, Hands down!
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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by hardcorebronco View Post
                                Did you guys have memory loss? Plummer was the most annoying QB to watch in our history of all time. One moment he was John Elway scrambling and making great throws downfield, and the next he'd make the biggest bonehead throw ever to cost us the game.

                                Plummer forced Cutler to take the reigns in Cutler's rookie season due to atrocious play. Cutler may have had an attitude, and I still don't really like the guy, but at least I'm honest enough to say he was more talented, MUCH more talented. Cutler's talent was second only to Elway for the Broncos franchise. I didn't miss Plummer at all, and those who criticized Cutler's INT's have no room to talk if they say Plummer is better.

                                I believe the OP said, "Best QB" not "Winningest QB".... Besides, every at the time would have said the Broncos won despite Plummer, not because of him save his one decent season in '05. But there again, Plummer threw the game in the conference championship. Are you people nuts? Voting for Plummer? Are we that "Upset" about Cutler leaving that now we discredit all he did? Four Months ago he was a top three QB in the league according to 99% of this forum, what happened? Even if that was a homeristic belief, he surely isn't a total failure is he?
                                Pulmmer hands down the only thing that matters in the NFL are wins and more wins and when Plummer was in Denver he did that we went 13-3 under Plummer Cutler is the most talented by far since Elway but sadly he had no Defensive help Games are won by teams not Qb's Cutler has the talent to be one of the best to have ever played the game but i have to go with Plummer 1 game away from the SB cant pick against plummer sorry
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