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Who has been our best QB since Elway?

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  • cooperkayd
    replied
    Originally posted by Pura Vida View Post
    Jay never flipped off the fans or rammed a guy with his honda element because of road rage.

    More revisionist history
    Classic!!! So true, but the Snake still did more for the Broncos than Cutler did in his tenure (brief as it was).

    Leave a comment:


  • Pura Vida
    replied
    Originally posted by TheMastermind View Post
    How can anyone NOT say Jake Plummer?

    Especially with the way Jay has been acting.....this is an easy question
    Jay never flipped off the fans or rammed a guy with his honda element because of road rage.

    More revisionist history

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncosRockdaRockies
    replied
    As far as comparison to Elway? Plummer hands down!His 4th quarter comebacks were awesome in their own right! But I still chose Orton B/c of his win/loss record and Int Ratio.

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  • BroncoFanDK
    replied
    Originally posted by TheComeBackKid View Post
    The only quarterback on that list who had real potential to bring a championship back to Denver was Cutler. Those stats make Plummer look great but he couldn't win when in mattered. I voted they were all bums in Denver!
    Who on the Broncos did you actually think played well in any of the three playoff losses? Steelers had over 36 minutes of possession, and Big Ben completed 21 of 29 throws for 275 yards (all most 14 yards per pass), and the O-line could not open run lanes and could not protect the QB.

    Did you like the defensive play against the Colts where the receiver got up and ran for a touchdown because no-one touched him, and did you like seeing Manning burn our corners in both games, and our run games being shut down.

    Most were bitter after the AFC championship - but saying that Plummer could not win big games after eliminating PATRIOTS is a bit to far fetched.

    Exactly how many times did the Cutler led Broncos pull out wins over Patriots and Colt. He never took the team to the playoffs and I doubt seriously that he would have been competitive having the Denver O-Line from 22 january 2006, being hit excessively by Joey Porter (it looked like gang rape) and against a Steelers team that plain dominated.

    I will give that maybe Cutlers skills could have helped in the 2003-04 wildcard game, but what about the Pats coming after but offsetting an offence scoring 41 points is difficult, even harder when they scored 49 the year after. NO I AM FORGETTING THAT PLUMMER HAD A SUPER DEFENCE AND THT WAS THE REASON FOR THE WINS

    Cutler was tremendously overrated, and it is a real shame that Plummer was so unappriciated.

    How many games did Cutler manage to win against an offence putting up 41 points, how many against a team putting up 49 points.

    Plummer brought brought the winning spirit. I miss that!:go:
    Last edited by BroncoFanDK; 06-22-2009, 03:12 PM.

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  • MJA
    replied
    Originally posted by VenomousDB View Post
    Did Cutler win when it mattered?
    The problem with that question is you are trying to compare QB's in two completely different situations. On one side you have Plummer with a top 10 defense and a top 10 running game with above average receivers. On the other is Cutler with one of the worst defenses in the league, a top 15 running game with no feature back and a great receiving core.

    I posted this in another thread, but it applies to this discussion too.


    Here are some other QB stat rankings for playoff teams (The x/15 represents how many of the rankings were in the top 15)

    Here is Completion Percentage: (1,2,3,7,17,18,19,20,21,22,24,26) 4/15

    Here is TD's: (2,3,5,8,10,12,15,16,17,20,24,24) 7/15

    Here is QB Rating: (1,2,3,5,11,14,14,18,22,23,24,28) 7/15


    Now here are some defensive stats

    Points per game: (1,2,3,4,5,7,9,11,12,13,15,28) 11/15 (11-5 Patriots were in the top 15 also)

    Yards per game: (1,2,3,5,6,7,11,15,18,19,24,25) 8/15

    Turnovers: (1,4,5,8,10,11,14,15,16,19,25,29) 8/15

    Now the x/15 stat for defense and QB play seem very close (Except for completion percentage and points per game). However, notice how few teams ranked low in the 20's for the defensive stats and compared to the QB ones.

    All that really matters in terms of making the playoffs is a defense who can be in the top 15 for points per game. Every team in the top 15 had a winning record and 73.3% of them made the playoffs (80% if the 11-5 Patriots got in, which they would have in any other year).

    I so far have not found a single QB stat that produces a better than 50% prediction of whether a team makes the playoffs.

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  • VenomousDB
    replied
    Originally posted by TheComeBackKid View Post
    The only quarterback on that list who had real potential to bring a championship back to Denver was Cutler. Those stats make Plummer look great but he couldn't win when in mattered. I voted they were all bums in Denver!
    Did Cutler win when it mattered?

    Leave a comment:


  • TheComeBackKid
    replied
    The only quarterback on that list who had real potential to bring a championship back to Denver was Cutler. Those stats make Plummer look great but he couldn't win when in mattered. I voted they were all bums in Denver!

    Leave a comment:


  • Axemaster
    replied
    Plummer, even before the Cutler fiasco. Who has the most potential? Cutler, maybe, we will see.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheMastermind
    replied
    How can anyone NOT say Jake Plummer?

    The guy saved us....I mean....Griese was a fiasco....and the franchise looked terrible with the loss of John Elway....

    It was a dismal time for Bronco fans.....

    I remember Jake's 3rd game as a Bronco.....Monday night game against Oakland (in Denver). He rocked the house with a couple td passes. He had a 40 yard RUN. And basically one handedly destroyed our arch rivals....It brought me back to believing in Denver again.....

    hate him for his picks and what not....but he once went over 200 passes without an INT.....and all he did was WIN GAMES!

    Especially with the way Jay has been acting.....this is an easy question

    Leave a comment:


  • Brendan08901
    replied
    So are we in agreement then that Eli Manning is better than Drew Breese and that Trent Dilfer isbetter than Marino?

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoFanDK
    replied
    Originally posted by Britan View Post
    The Snake no doubt. Cutler never won a damn thing. Forget mentioning a supporting cast. Offensively he had everything Jake had except a more stable running game. I would give it to Jake just for being a leader. Even with the bone head plays you knew he was out there to win us a football game no matter what. Jake Plummer was 100% heart on every play. He was a winner. Which is way more than I can say for the newest QB of the Bears.
    Interesting trend in this thread. Plummer gets favoured by more and more the longer the thread stays out there.

    He was the best one, and the winrates dropped from 63% to 40% as soon as Cutler took the reins, and never got back up above 50%.

    I beleive that Marchall/Royal were better than Smith/Lelie - not by a wide margin though.

    Leave a comment:


  • dman444
    replied
    I'd be willing to bet these results would be drastically different had this poll come up before the whole fiasco happened.

    I voted Cutler out of pure talent, but I am and always was a fan of Pummer. Not only is he a stand up guy but he was exciting to watch. Gotta miss those left handed throws!

    Leave a comment:


  • MJA
    replied
    Originally posted by Lomax View Post
    It depends on what you value in a "good" QB. Cutler's a guy who will chew up poor defenses and get everyone hot and bothered, but in the clutch he's pretty average. Plummer's numbers are pretty average but in the clutch he's completely money. Despite the general consensus that Cutler made the Broncos better, He wasn't able to make the plays when they counted the most, with one of most talented offensive rosters in football.
    I got no argument there about Plummer in the clutch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Britan
    replied
    The Snake no doubt. Cutler never won a damn thing. Forget mentioning a supporting cast. Offensively he had everything Jake had except a more stable running game. I would give it to Jake just for being a leader. Even with the bone head plays you knew he was out there to win us a football game no matter what. Jake Plummer was 100% heart on every play. He was a winner. Which is way more than I can say for the newest QB of the Bears.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lomax
    replied
    Originally posted by MJA View Post
    The question isn't "Who was the most accomplished Denver QB since Elway?" It's who is the best. Plummer accomplished more but when I look at his stats (I can't really remember his play, I was 13-14) and then look at Cutler (Who I do remember) I see Cutler was better in the 2nd half and equal to Plummer in the 1st half. Cutler was better than Plummer after 10+ pass attempts usually and Cutler usually threw more pass attempts.

    The fact that Cutler did that without a great running game (They were ranked statistically high, but they didn't keep the defense honest since they didn't have a signature back) seals the deal for me that Cutler was the better QB. He was asked to do more than Plummer and still managed to keep his stats relatively high.
    It depends on what you value in a "good" QB. Cutler's a guy who will chew up poor defenses and get everyone hot and bothered, but in the clutch he's pretty average. Plummer's numbers are pretty average but in the clutch he's completely money. Despite the general consensus that Cutler made the Broncos better, He wasn't able to make the plays when they counted the most, with one of most talented offensive rosters in football.

    Leave a comment:

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