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  • Originally posted by downinbellum View Post
    "21st in overall defense with 5,646 yards"
    <http://en.allexperts.com/e/0/1986_denver_broncos.htm>.

    Differing opinions on overall defense, it appears. Relax, research more than one site. Both are legitimate points in a debate. Only a fool will turn it into an argument, which you are teetering on...

    Perhaps I read it wrong on one particular site, perhaps my words were jumbled. However, I refuse to debate subjectivity. I'm only relaying and interpreting information I observed. It may be wrong, but yours may also be wrong.

    "Pull that out of your ass, my friend"
    the allexperst site uses the pro football reference site to support its 21st in yards allowed claim.. But when you click on that link all experst provides, it clearly shows denver at 9th in yards allowed.

    This isnt a matter of opinion. Denver had the 9th best defense in the nfl in 86 when it comes to yards allowed. Im sorry you found a site that misreported it. At least you can save face now by admitting that the site you found was wrong and that it is their fault and not yours.

    However, my info isnt wrong...its a matter of recorded history.

    Only a fool would bring this to argument level? Would you rather I see wrong information and just let it go? It seems to me that a fool would do just that.

    Back to the point. The bottom line is that every single qb in the history of the nfl has a career losing record when you only look at all of the seasons where that qb played with a defense that ranked 20th or lower in points allowed. EVERY SINGLE ONE!

    But...yea...lets blame cutler for 17-20. Thats just ridiculous.
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    • No, your point was well put, the stats in my sources were contradictory. Happy? Want a medal for it?

      Ya, I would actually. IMO a fool resorts to calling others liars... on the internet haha... and yes I believe I have "saved face" as you put it, because even in my first posts in this thread I said team has a lot to do with his record. Look back a few pages, it's all there.

      Enough of arguing with you, in the end I agree with you about Jay and the Defense.
      sigpic
      The Lone Ranger

      Member #970 of the Knowshon Fan Club. Championship!

      Shanny Fan? McDaniels Fan? I'm a Denver Broncos Fan!!!

      NECKBEARD!

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      • Originally posted by da swerski View Post
        cutler went to vanderbilt which is in the sec, and not an ivy league school.
        lol ivy league

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        • Originally posted by saphire1 View Post
          right, because 1 win more than cutler last season was a huuuuuuuuugggeeee difference.
          Jay Cutler is 17-20

          Kyle Orton is 33-31

          Kyle Orton is a leader, a winner and a class act to put up with some of the worst coaching in NFL history. Coach Smith had the wrong quarterback in the superbowl! Coach Smith did the least with the most talent, and thats a fact! If he had Kyle Orton in as QB THEY WOULD HAVE WON! There, I said it when no one else even thought of it.

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          • Originally posted by Horsense View Post
            lol ivy league
            Ivy league enough for me. I mean look at this guy, he has rich and spoiled tatooed on his face. Rich, spoiled crybaby's are not leaders.

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            • Originally posted by Chiefs > You View Post
              55% completion
              30TDs and 27INTs
              And 5k total yards.


              Cutler had about 84% of Orton's career yards in just one year!!!

              And who said Orton is a leader and Cutler is not?
              What a silly, asinine comparison! Comparing the stats between two different
              players from two different teams in two different conferences under two
              different coaches in two different systems.

              Besides, when do completion ration, TDs, INTs, and yards comprise leadership?

              Wow.

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              • Originally posted by Orton_Backer81 View Post
                Jay Cutler is 17-20

                Kyle Orton is 33-31

                Kyle Orton is a leader, a winner and a class act to put up with some of the worst coaching in NFL history.
                rofl!

                if kyle orton had gone to jerry angelo's face and went TRADE ME! LOVIE IS NOT GOOD FOR MY CAREER! angelo would have died laughing at orton's neckbeard.

                he put up with it because he has nowhere else to go. wake up and smell the why do you think it wasnt a straight trade one on one cutler for orton?! cutler alone fetched 2 guys PLUS your boyfriend. Your boyfriend ALONE would have probably fetched a 4th rounder at best.

                oh, and last i checked, that "worst coaching in NFL history" led the team to the super bowl in 2006. broncos? john elway was like 35 years old or so when they last went to the sb.

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                • Originally posted by saphire1 View Post
                  rofl!

                  if kyle orton had gone to jerry angelo's face and went TRADE ME! LOVIE IS NOT GOOD FOR MY CAREER! angelo would have died laughing at orton's neckbeard.

                  he put up with it because he has nowhere else to go. wake up and smell the why do you think it wasnt a straight trade one on one cutler for orton?! cutler alone fetched 2 guys PLUS your boyfriend. Your boyfriend ALONE would have probably fetched a 4th rounder at best.

                  oh, and last i checked, that "worst coaching in NFL history" led the team to the super bowl in 2006. broncos? john elway was like 35 years old or so when they last went to the sb.


                  This board is breaking down to where nobody seems to be making any sense . . .

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                  • Originally posted by Pura Vida View Post
                    None of those qbs have a winning career record when their defense was ranked 20th or lower. No qb in the history of the nfl has a winning record when their defense is ranked 20th or lower.

                    Last year denver had the 31st best defense. the 32nd best defense went 0-16. the 30th best defense went 2-14. The fact that we went 8-8 is because we had an excellent offense with a top 5 qb in the nfl (those arent my words, there John Elway's)

                    Cutler carried this team last year. No qb in the history of the game would have had a winning record over the last two years with a defense as bad as ours. History proves that to be true.
                    bears defense last year ranked 21st overall and the orton led bears went 9-7

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                    • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
                      What a silly, asinine comparison! Comparing the stats between two different
                      players from two different teams in two different conferences under two
                      different coaches in two different systems.

                      Besides, when do completion ration, TDs, INTs, and yards comprise leadership?

                      Wow.

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                      Are you serious? So quarterbacks dont need to complete passes anymore? Just as long as they have leadership huh? 55% completion rating is F-ing horrible. Most quarterbacks can do that throwing with their foot to a blind circus monkey. That's roughly 1 in 2 passes being incompletions. Are you happy with that?

                      But yeah, 2 different systems. Cant compare them. So with that said, Eric Hipple >> John Elway. You cant argue that because hey they were in different systems, on different team with different coaches.

                      And where does everyone get that Orton is such a better leader than Cutler?

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                      • Originally posted by Chiefs > You View Post
                        Are you serious? So quarterbacks dont need to complete passes anymore? Just as long as they have leadership huh? 55% completion rating is F-ing horrible. Most quarterbacks can do that throwing with their foot to a blind circus monkey. That's roughly 1 in 2 passes being incompletions. Are you happy with that?

                        But yeah, 2 different systems. Cant compare them. So with that said, Eric Hipple >> John Elway. You cant argue that because hey they were in different systems, on different team with different coaches.

                        And where does everyone get that Orton is such a better leader than Cutler?
                        Where did I say Orton is a better leader than Cutler?

                        Where did I ever say I wanted to compare the two quarterbacks?

                        Who are you, anyway?

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                        • Originally posted by topscribe View Post
                          Where did I say Orton is a better leader than Cutler?

                          Where did I ever say I wanted to compare the two quarterbacks?

                          Who are you, anyway?

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                          I posted the stats and you said something about not being able to compare the two because stats dont comprise leadership or something like that.

                          And I am your father.

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                          • hyperbole

                            Originally posted by Chiefs > You View Post
                            Are you serious? So quarterbacks dont need to complete passes anymore? Just as long as they have leadership huh? 55% completion rating is F-ing horrible. Most quarterbacks can do that throwing with their foot to a blind circus monkey. That's roughly 1 in 2 passes being incompletions. Are you happy with that?

                            But yeah, 2 different systems. Cant compare them. So with that said, Eric Hipple >> John Elway. You cant argue that because hey they were in different systems, on different team with different coaches.

                            And where does everyone get that Orton is such a better leader than Cutler?
                            Sigh. Orton's carrer completion percentage is 55.3%. That includes his rookie year when he was immediately thrown into play. In 05 it was 51.6, in 07 it was 53.8 and in 08 it was 58.5 (+2.2 and +4.7). Every year his % has gotten better as well as his rating. Completion percentage is also reliant on the people being thrown to being able to catch and quoting % does not take this into account.
                            "Most quarterbacks can do that throwing with their foot to a blind circus monkey." Hyperbole is not an intellegent way to foster a discussion. Orton's rating was 59.7 in 05, 73.9 in 07 and 79.6 in 08. Every year it increased (+14.2 and +5.7). Also if you look at his completion percentage and his rating through the first 8 games in 08 (before his injury) they are much better. He had a 61.587 (+9.987 from his rookie year) completion percentage and an 89.925 (+30.225 from his rookie year) quarterback rating.
                            Leadership IS important and dismissing it's importance is foolish. Orton in his rookie season was voted a team captain, so he does have good leadership skills. He is also a very hard worker. He is not taking off over the break before training camp, instead staying in Dove valley to try and make he and the Broncos better.:orton:
                            Last edited by odd_thomas; 06-28-2009, 04:17 PM.

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                            • Originally posted by odd_thomas View Post
                              Sigh. Orton's carrer completion percentage is 55.3%. That includes his rookie year when he was immediately thrown into play. In 05 it was 51.6, in 07 it was 53.8 and in 08 it was 58.5 (+2.2 and +4.7). Every year his % has gotten better as well as his rating. Completion percentage is also reliant on the people being thrown to being able to catch and quoting % does not take this into account.
                              "Most quarterbacks can do that throwing with their foot to a blind circus monkey." Hyperbole is not an intellegent way to foster a discussion. Orton's rating was 59.7 in 05, 73.9 in 07 and 79.6 in 08. Every year it increased (+14.2 and +5.7). Also if you look at his completion percentage and his rating through the first 8 games in 08 (before his injury) they are much better. He had a 61.587 (+9.987 from his rookie year) completion percentage and an 89.925 (+30.225 from his rookie year) quarterback rating.
                              Leadership IS important and dismissing it's importance is foolish. Orton in his rookie season was voted a team captain, so he does have good leadership skills. He is also a very hard worker. He is not taking off over the break before training camp, instead staying in Dove valley to try and make he and the Broncos better.:orton:
                              Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt EVERY quarterback a team captain?

                              I'm not dismissing the importance of leadership, but I'm dumbfounded by people acting like Orton is a better leader than Cutler. I'm just wondering where they are getting that information from.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Chiefs > You View Post
                                Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt EVERY quarterback a team captain?

                                I'm not dismissing the importance of leadership, but I'm dumbfounded by people acting like Orton is a better leader than Cutler. I'm just wondering where they are getting that information from.
                                No, every quarterback is not a captain.

                                You really need to find a course in Football 101 . . .

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