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  • #46
    Originally posted by jhns View Post
    LOL... Again with this stuff?

    Not that I care, I will jump into the debate.

    I can't believe people are actually convincing themselves that Orton is better than Cutler. That is really funny to me. I laugh a lot when reading these threads. Noone in the world that gets to break down game film believes this. Who exactly becomes a bandwagon fan because Orton left their team anyways? I think that speaks a lot about what kind of "fan" you guys are. You are just as much of bandwagon fans as those that went to Chicago because of Cutler. Your arguments reflect as much.

    Cutler outperformed Orton no matter how much you try twisting the stats. This is while CUtler was expected to do it all and Orton had a team to help him. Before you come crying that Chicago had such a horrible defense, I will tell you how to figure this out. Look at the QB ratings during wins and losses. Orton has a TON of wins when he had HORRIBLE performances. Cutler doesn't have a single win that he played bad. If he had a bad game, or even an average game, this team lost. Facts are facts. Orton had it easy compared to Cutler(as in pressure to make stuff happen) and still was outperformed.
    well a few lines of the white stuff and a bud and some needle stabbing to your arm can start making you say and doing some crazy things... like "we will be ok with orton" HAHAHAHA! REALLY?!

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Da Swerski View Post
      C'mon! There were A LOT of teams interested in Cutler. Not everyone could afford the price tag. The Bronco's got a lot because Cutler is worth a lot. The Vikings didn't drop out because "they researched him". I guarantee you the Vikings would have loved to get Cutler, but it obviously wasn't possible. Though I'm sure this great research that turned them off Cutler must have gone out the window when drafting Percy Harvin, or trying to sign Favre.
      EXPECT VIKINGS TO TAKE ANOTHER PASS ON CUTLER
      "The Vikings apparently will not be among the suitors lining up for Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler, who officially was put on the trading block by the Denver Broncos. Last week, yahoo.com, citing sources, reported that the Vikings were the first team to talk to the Broncos about Cutler more than a month ago but backed out because of reservations from "some elements" of Minnesota's coaching staff."

      Originally posted by Da Swerski View Post
      You realize last offseason that Orton could have been a free agent this year. Instead last offseason, with 2008 being his contract year, he added a 1 year extension for almost nothing. Why would he do this if teams wanted him? Wouldn't he be licking his chops to get out on the open market and get set for life? Of course he would, but what would teams really offer for Orton? You act like he was on the Bears untouchable list.
      You realize that Orton's salary (with signing bonus & incentives) about TRIPLED for that one year (2009 season) extension, right? Along with adding new money for the 2008 season, whether or not he started?

      It wasn't until the start of the 2008 season (AFTER he signed the extension) that Kyle started lighting it up. At that point, he's already locked up until 2010. So all that he can do is play the best he can to maximize his value for when he did become a free agent - which will be pushed back a year if no new CBA is in place between the players union and the NFL owners.
      "That's a crap question."
      - Kyle Orton

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
        EXPECT VIKINGS TO TAKE ANOTHER PASS ON CUTLER
        "The Vikings apparently will not be among the suitors lining up for Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler, who officially was put on the trading block by the Denver Broncos. Last week, yahoo.com, citing sources, reported that the Vikings were the first team to talk to the Broncos about Cutler more than a month ago but backed out because of reservations from "some elements" of Minnesota's coaching staff."
        This is your only source on the matter? It doesn't even list if their reservations had to do with Cutler, or what they'd have to give up.

        Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
        You realize that Orton's salary (with signing bonus & incentives) about TRIPLED for that one year (2009 season) extension, right? Along with adding new money for the 2008 season, whether or not he started?

        It wasn't until the start of the 2008 season (AFTER he signed the extension) that Kyle started lighting it up. At that point, he's already locked up until 2010. So all that he can do is play the best he can to maximize his value for when he did become a free agent - which will be pushed back a year if no new CBA is in place between the players union and the NFL owners.
        What is your point? If Orton was on the Brees, Brady, Manning level... he'd have walked after 08' and the deal. The fact he had to sign that extension to compete in a training camp battle with Rex Grossman should tell you something. Because the only thing that's changed since then: 18 TD's, 12 INT's, 79.6 QB Rating, with 2,972 yards.

        Bottom line though, bickering aside, Cutler is considered a franchise QB. Orton on the other hand is considered an average starter. Now if you think Cutler will never fulfill his potential, and Orton will suddenly become something he hasn't shown... then that's fine. But at the same time understand that anyone who watches the NFL is going to think you're crazy. Comparing Orton to Brees, Manning, Brady... or claiming he's on the same level as Cutler is insane.

        Comment


        • #49
          Awesome! Yet ANOTHER Cutler vs. Orton thread!

          Winning this argument is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

          Let's compare some other QB's too while we are at it. How about Brian Greise Vs. Rex Grossman? Another once Bronco vs. a once Bear.

          Ok, I'll bite. Not only will I participate, but I'm going to attempt to be as objective as I can.

          Jay Cutler: He is a physically gifted QB with a good sense of urgency who was forced to carry way more of a workload than any other QB in the NFL last year.

          He not only was forced to produce yardage (600+ in one season is simply unheard of in a balanced offense), but was put in a position by our defense where he had to score to keep us in the game. He is now in Chicago learning their Defense first scheme. He will make the throws well for Chicago. What I am curious about is what he and Lovie Smith's relationship is going to be like half way through the season.

          In Denver Kyle Orton has been given the task of managing the offense. He will not be expected to put up Cutlers numbers from last year. Our team has beefed up the running game and we have a short route offensive scheme being implemented this off season. Study of McDaniels's previous offensive schemes reveals that Orton's job will be to keep the offense on the field and eat clock. I'm going to make an assumption here now. This may, or may not be correct, but I don't imagine we will be airing out the ball down field as much as NE does with Randy Moss. Orton is not being asked to fill Cutler's shoes. The offense we fielded last year is not the same by a long shot.

          Both players have an adjustment period on their new teams. I am not sure which player will adapt more quickly at this point.
          Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            Enjoy the jabs now. The Broncos actual season (reality-not this make believe, hope against hope crud) is not going to be even remotely enjoyable for Bronco fans.
            Ok lol. Right. We win at least 10 games. Easy. 12-4 is my prediction.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            The Offense has went waaaaaaayyyy backwards
            Did it really?

            -Cutler

            -Shannahan

            -Bates

            +knowshon

            +Gaffney

            +Quinn

            +McKinley

            +Lloyd

            +McDaniels

            Yeah I'd say we increased our overall offensive talent.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            -Orton is a huge downgrade.
            Not really. More of an upgrade for this system.

            Cutler didn't fit.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            Knowshon isn't much of an upgrade.
            ok, now you really just don't watch football do you?

            Knowshon is a HUUUUGE upgrade over what we had last year. Hell, even without proving anything yet, he's an upgrade over 28 starting RBs in the NFL, including Forte.


            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            McDaniels isn't a defensive minded coach
            You're right, he's both.

            He has coached both sides of the ball.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            -and Nolan isn't even respectable as a D coordinator.
            Not just respectable, he's great.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            Dawkins isnt the answer
            You're right, he's just the final piece.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            -Champ is fading big time.
            LOL. You have Tillman and Vasher as your CBs.

            Nuff said.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            Tillman with a bad shoulder last season was better a corner (also causes more receivers to drop the ball, because he is one of the hardest hitting corners in the league).
            Idiot, Champ was injured for half the season.

            A hamstring no less, which obviously affects a CB more than a shoulder injury.

            Tillman is fit to breath the same air as champ, much less be compared to him.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            So let's see:

            Kyle is moving into a downgraded offense, with the same horrible D and ST then was in Denver last season.
            Ignorance at its best here folks!

            We have no doubt upgraded in every aspect of the game. Offense, Defense, Special Teams.


            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            Cutler is moving into an upgraded offense, upgraded defense, and one of the best ST units in football.
            ...

            Chicago has **** for offense, **** for defense.

            All you got is ST.

            Originally posted by ursamajor View Post
            Have fun with sharing the AFC Basement with the Raiders (Chiefs really are > you) at least you guys can talk about Romo.
            Hahahahahhahahahahah

            You do realize the Broncos are playoff bound and the Bears won't even be able to use the top 10 pick that they'll soon be earning, right.?

            But hey, at least you try.

            Too bad you fail.

            Now have fun finishing dead last in the North.

            Yep, worse than Detroit.

            Hey at least you can look forward to your 3 divisional wins, cause those are all the wins you'll be getting this year.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Broncofan1990 View Post
              well a few lines of the white stuff and a bud and some needle stabbing to your arm can start making you say and doing some crazy things... like "we will be ok with orton" HAHAHAHA! REALLY?!
              What are you 12?

              Shouldn't you be in summer school or something.

              Comment


              • #52
                I can't believe you guys actually acknowledge ursamajor

                Really, you guys need to ignore them
                That's why we've got so many of them (chicago bears' fans) over here.
                The more you feed those trolls, the more you'd be attracting them to our site.

                They're not here to share our views of the Broncos from a fan perspective, they're here to trash our team, and bad mouth our team on our own backyard, and you guys are letting them. Those guys are owning YOU all...
                Last edited by dragster69; 06-26-2009, 10:42 AM.
                sigpic
                I've started with almost nothing and still got most of it

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                  Ok lol. Right. We win at least 10 games. Easy. 12-4 is my prediction.



                  Did it really?

                  -Cutler

                  -Shannahan

                  -Bates

                  +knowshon

                  +Gaffney

                  +Quinn

                  +McKinley

                  +Lloyd

                  +McDaniels

                  Yeah I'd say we increased our overall offensive talent.



                  Not really. More of an upgrade for this system.

                  Cutler didn't fit.



                  ok, now you really just don't watch football do you?

                  Knowshon is a HUUUUGE upgrade over what we had last year. Hell, even without proving anything yet, he's an upgrade over 28 starting RBs in the NFL, including Forte.




                  You're right, he's both.

                  He has coached both sides of the ball.



                  Not just respectable, he's great.



                  You're right, he's just the final piece.



                  LOL. You have Tillman and Vasher as your CBs.

                  Nuff said.



                  Idiot, Champ was injured for half the season.

                  A hamstring no less, which obviously affects a CB more than a shoulder injury.

                  Tillman is fit to breath the same air as champ, much less be compared to him.



                  Ignorance at its best here folks!

                  We have no doubt upgraded in every aspect of the game. Offense, Defense, Special Teams.




                  ...

                  Chicago has **** for offense, **** for defense.

                  All you got is ST.



                  Hahahahahhahahahahah

                  You do realize the Broncos are playoff bound and the Bears won't even be able to use the top 10 pick that they'll soon be earning, right.?

                  But hey, at least you try.

                  Too bad you fail.

                  Now have fun finishing dead last in the North.

                  Yep, worse than Detroit.

                  Hey at least you can look forward to your 3 divisional wins, cause those are all the wins you'll be getting this year.
                  haha, thanks, the ridiculousness of this post brightened my day. We all hope the Broncos do well, but 12-4? haha. This should be stickied as an example of homerism at it's finest and most blindest.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by username1 View Post
                    haha, thanks, the ridiculousness of this post brightened my day. We all hope the Broncos do well, but 12-4? haha. This should be stickied as an example of homerism at it's finest and most blindest.
                    Or maybe it should be stickied as a reminder that if we in fact do go 12-4 your opinion will be null and void.

                    You know about as much as any of us how this season is going to turn out, so quit acting like you have a clue.
                    Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Poindexter View Post
                      Or maybe it should be stickied as a reminder that if we in fact do go 12-4 your opinion will be null and void.

                      You know about as much as any of us how this season is going to turn out, so quit acting like you have a clue.
                      We should sticky and see what happens. I am saving it to my bookmarks now so we can see at the end of the season. Why does it have to be so far away. Why act like no one has any clue?
                      Everyone has clues, it is how you piece them together that matters. Do you honestly think a 37yr old safety, and a rookie DE are going to improve the D that much? Do you really think that the transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 is going to come seamlessly? Or that changing blocking schemes for the Oline is going to ensure the same production as the zone scheme Shanahan ran so effectively? Or that McD is a sure bet to break the NE coaching tree hex? Or that the awful special teams we have had will turn it around in one year?
                      I am sure that some of those will turn out in a positive manner but not all of them. There is a long way for us to go before we can be considered 12-4 material.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        EXPECT VIKINGS TO TAKE ANOTHER PASS ON CUTLER
                        "The Vikings apparently will not be among the suitors lining up for Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler, who officially was put on the trading block by the Denver Broncos. Last week, yahoo.com, citing sources, reported that the Vikings were the first team to talk to the Broncos about Cutler more than a month ago but backed out because of reservations from "some elements" of Minnesota's coaching staff."
                        Originally posted by Da Swerski View Post
                        This is your only source on the matter? It doesn't even list if their reservations had to do with Cutler, or what they'd have to give up.
                        I'm sorry that I don't have the time to more exhaustively research it for your idle whim. Also, most newspapers put older stories such as that into their archives and charge you to get access then. You wanna pay the $2.95 a pop for it? Go right ahead...

                        You realize that Orton's salary (with signing bonus & incentives) about TRIPLED for that one year (2009 season) extension, right? Along with adding new money for the 2008 season, whether or not he started?

                        It wasn't until the start of the 2008 season (AFTER he signed the extension) that Kyle started lighting it up. At that point, he's already locked up until 2010. So all that he can do is play the best he can to maximize his value for when he did become a free agent - which will be pushed back a year if no new CBA is in place between the players union and the NFL owners.
                        Originally posted by Da Swerski View Post
                        What is your point? If Orton was on the Brees, Brady, Manning level... he'd have walked after 08' and the deal. The fact he had to sign that extension to compete in a training camp battle with Rex Grossman should tell you something. Because the only thing that's changed since then: 18 TD's, 12 INT's, 79.6 QB Rating, with 2,972 yards.
                        Now you're just being intentionally obtuse to avoid the real point.

                        Orton has been improving as a QB for his entire career. Kyle was very much still a "work-in-progress" at the end of 2007. But then he started out 2008 as much more than just a legitimate starter. He completed 143 of 230 passes (62.2%) for 1,669 yds (7.3 avg), 10 TDs (4.4%), 4 INTs (1.7%) for a passer rating of 91.4 over the first 7 games. He was a top ten passer in 4 of the first 7 weeks, #1 in week 5. He was having a breakout year up until he was hurt.

                        Now that he's had the off-season to recuperate from his ankle injury, there's no reason to think that he won't be able to resume playing at that same level. Except now of course he has much better WRs, one of the best o-lines in the NFL, and he'll be playing out of the shotgun in a spread offense (similar to the one he was so successful in at Purdue) under a HC who's got some impressive bonafides as an Offensive Coordinator and a developer of QBs. Orton should be looking at a very good new contract offer well before the end of the season.

                        Originally posted by Da Swerski View Post
                        Bottom line though, bickering aside, Cutler is considered a franchise QB. Orton on the other hand is considered an average starter. Now if you think Cutler will never fulfill his potential, and Orton will suddenly become something he hasn't shown... then that's fine. But at the same time understand that anyone who watches the NFL is going to think you're crazy. Comparing Orton to Brees, Manning, Brady... or claiming he's on the same level as Cutler is insane.
                        Why is Cutler considered a "franchise QB?" Because I don't think he's anywhere near it yet. To me, a franchise QB is someone like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, or Brett Favre. I think it's laughable to try and put Jay Cutler in the same class as those guys when he hasn't even posted a winning record yet. He's really in the middle third of the pack, not an elite QB like you and others seem to think.

                        And Orton is just an everage starter? Well, I suppose that's an upgrade over when the Kyle-bashers proclaimed him not to even be a servicable backup. But I think it's much more than an "average starter" who could ignite the Bears less-than-mediocre Offense when the Defense was stumbling so badly and Special Teams was having an off-year. Chicago led the entire NFL in scoring for the first 7 weeks of the season at 28 points per game.

                        It seems like the guys who most want to prove that Orton isn't really good are the ones who were huge fans of the guy he replaced, Sexy-Rexy fanboys in Chicago and now the Jay-boys here in Denver.

                        Oh, and I'm just saying that as of now Kyle is on a par at least with Jay. I'm not comparing him to Brees, Manning, or Brady. Just because I happen to mention those other QBs in a post about KO, it doesn't follow that I'm saying he's their equal...

                        :orton:
                        Don't hate on the 8!
                        Last edited by neckbeard; 06-26-2009, 11:08 AM.
                        "That's a crap question."
                        - Kyle Orton

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by neckbeard View Post


                          Why is Cutler considered a "franchise QB?" Because I don't think he's anywhere near it yet. To me, a franchise QB is someone like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, or Brett Favre. I think it's laughable to try and put Jay Cutler in the same class as those guys when he hasn't even posted a winning record yet. He's really in the middle third of the pack, not an elite QB like you and others seem to think.
                          Did you even watch a Broncos game over the past two seasons? Cutler WAS in their class. He was in the probowl. PROBOWL....

                          God this message board is full of a bunch of freaking morons.
                          With this joke of a coaching staff my beloved Broncos will be much closer to 4-12 than 12-4.
                          sigpic
                          RomperRoom McD was an abortion of a hire - Ahead of the curve since 1/12/09

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jakeisthefuture View Post
                            Did you even watch a Broncos game over the past two seasons? Cutler WAS in their class. He was in the probowl. PROBOWL....

                            God this message board is full of a bunch of freaking morons.
                            With this joke of a coaching staff my beloved Broncos will be much closer to 4-12 than 12-4.
                            I'm guessing no. He has been watching the Bears for the past few years so he most likely knows nothing about Jay.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by username1 View Post
                              We should sticky and see what happens. I am saving it to my bookmarks now so we can see at the end of the season. Why does it have to be so far away. Why act like no one has any clue?
                              Everyone has clues, it is how you piece them together that matters. Do you honestly think a 37yr old safety, and a rookie DE are going to improve the D that much? Do you really think that the transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4 is going to come seamlessly? Or that changing blocking schemes for the Oline is going to ensure the same production as the zone scheme Shanahan ran so effectively? Or that McD is a sure bet to break the NE coaching tree hex? Or that the awful special teams we have had will turn it around in one year?
                              I am sure that some of those will turn out in a positive manner but not all of them. There is a long way for us to go before we can be considered 12-4 material.
                              I never said we were going 12-4. I'm just not ruling out the possibility. You point out a couple of position changes and that's the end all be all of the team? I don't think so. There is a lot more to it than that. I have no idea how this seasons going to turn out. I will hope for the best, and I certainly won't be writing it down to shove into other peoples faces later.
                              Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                                What are you 12?

                                Shouldn't you be in summer school or something.
                                good one??

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