Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Article - "The Myth of the Short Cornerback"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by OTF View Post
    Please see the videos below and tell me a few more inches wouldn't have helped. Heyward-bey is not considered a great WR by any stretch but he shows in this videos that height is more then a myth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzgh6...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxiAb...eature=related
    Looked like a penalty (pushing off by Heyward-Bey) that didn't draw a flag,too bad not drawing the flag wont happen to ANY Raiders in the NFL including Bey.
    I would also like to point out that even the commentators said that Maryland shouldn't go to Smiths side of the field.
    Not even the dark side of the force can help Al Davis win another division title

    Comment


    • #17
      Did you guys watch the 2007 NFC Championship game? (Packers vs New York)

      Height matters.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by the-shuffler View Post
        Did you guys watch the 2007 NFC Championship game? (Packers vs New York)

        Height matters.
        The game the Giants did everything possible to lose and still won?
        Last edited by -Rod-; 06-27-2009, 08:14 AM.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #19
          Height does not mean anything its all about the players skill and heart and the want to to be better than the guy lining up across from you, Alphonso tied for most career interceptions (21) with Dre Bly he makes great football plays at corner he i felt had the best cover skills out of any corner in this years draft he will be a great Broncos corner for a long time, and hey it does not hurt that he has the best Corner of all time on the team coaching him up either. :go:
          sigpicGo Broncos! Heres to many more CHAMPionships!!!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by OTF View Post
            Please see the videos below and tell me a few more inches wouldn't have helped. Heyward-bey is not considered a great WR by any stretch but he shows in this videos that height is more then a myth.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzgh6...eature=related

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxiAb...eature=related
            On that play, Heyward-Bay beat Smith, but it wouldn't have mattered if Smith was 5'11 or 6'0.

            The safety on the play-side should have squeezed that route better because Smith obviously had outside leverage on that play. The safety was late, and Heyward-Bay barely made that play.

            View it again. #9 was fundamentally horrible. He bit on the fake. A safety's first steps should never be forward. And then when the ball was in the air, #9 took a zig zagging wandering pattern to the ball. Not good considering he was Smith's help on that play.
            Last edited by Crazy8; 06-27-2009, 08:41 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by anton... View Post
              enough said...

              Ugh, nasty typo there, meant to spell it "accept". That's what I get for typing a huge post at 330 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                Video 1: Smith managed to keep up with Bey's speed. And Bey made a nice play, Smith was all over him and almost deflected the pass.
                Only reason he kept up was because it was a horrible throw and DHB had to stop running, in fact he was running backwards the ball was so under-thrown.

                Originally posted by Anhydrous View Post
                Looked like a penalty (pushing off by Heyward-Bey) that didn't draw a flag...
                That statement is a bigger reach then Heyward-Bey being drafted at #7!

                While there are some short CBs who have played great they all had blazing speed not avg speed. Smith has avg speed and is short which is a bad combination. The fact is while many here are thrilled to have Smith as a Raider fan we are ALL thrilled that you have him as well.

                I am praying that Smith (5'8" 190lbs, 4.53 speed) starts and has to cover one of these WRs all day:

                Schilens - 6'4" 225 lbs, 4.38
                Heyward-Bey - 6'2" 210 lbs, 4.30
                Walker - 6' 3", 215 lbs, (not sure how fast he is after the knee injury)
                Murphy - 6'2", 205 lbs, 4.40

                If Smith plays in the slot he will be matched up against Darren McFadden sometimes too. The interesting thing is if the Raiders force the Broncos to see the field in the Nickel offense there will be a big advantage for the Raiders.

                Remember, it is not just the fact that he will have to cover but he will also have to tackle these big WRs. Here is the scouting report on Smith:

                http://thehuddlereport.com

                STRENGTHS

                Alphonso has good bulk, strength and speed to play his position. He has excellent quickness and is a very smart football player who understands situational football. He shows leadership skills through his play on the field and can make impact interceptions within the context of the game plan. Alphonso does not have to desert his assignment to make a big play. His skills as a CB are some of the best in this draft and he should be able to impact in the return game on special teams. The problem is that Alphonso has one big flaw to his overall playing abilities.



                NEEDS TO IMPROVE

                Alphonso is not a form tackler. He must become a form tackler or he will be a liability in coverage in the open field. He will struggle against the big run-after-catch (RAC) WR's. He must learn to tackle like Antoine Winfield because Alphonso is vertically challenged. Head up, wrap up, squeeze and drive is the only way Alphonso becomes a Pro Bowl CB.



                TALENT BOARD ROUND 2

                I know everyone is in love with this kid because of his talent and size. We all want to see the little guy show up the big guy. I do too, but -- Alphonso, as of this writing, is not a good enough tackler to be a #1 CB who can cover any size WR. That is not to say that he will not be a very good CB but a 1st round CB you have to be able to cover all sizes of WR's. Alphonso is not a liability on the fade pattern like so many might think. He is smart and plays the situation very well. Alphonso has to improve his tackling techniques to handle the big WR's who will curl, use crossing patterns and stop and go patterns against him. Add to this big WR's who will settle in his zone and then burst through his tackles and you can now understand my concerns. It's these patterns in the open field that will cause him problems. So I have to go against the grain once again and tell you all that Alphonso has better cover skills than Antoine Winfield; however, because he can't tackle as well as Winfield, this makes him a good #2 CB who can shut down the small WR's but will struggle in the open field with the strong WR's. If he improves his tackling techniques, then yes, he will prove me wrong because he does have big play ability and should be a big impact player on special teams. All that being said, it would not surprise me if Alphonso sneaks into the first round. He is a joy to watch.
                http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/516535
                Run Defense: The effort is there, but he gets bounced around and is just an adequate tackler who offers little in run force. He lacks good tackling technique and does not always get himself in position to make the play. He needs to use his hands better to keep blockers off his body, but even if his hands were active, he still lacks the strength to wrap and secure (more of a grab or drag-down type). GRADE: 5.1
                Last edited by OTF; 06-27-2009, 10:46 AM.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by dragster69 View Post
                  That's three words...









                  J/K

                  As a proper noun, Darrell Green, is the name of one person and is therefore one word.
                  "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by OTF View Post
                    Only reason he kept up was because it was a horrible throw and DHB had to stop running, in fact he was running backwards the ball was so under-thrown.



                    That statement is a bigger reach then Heyward-Bey being drafted at #7!

                    While there are some short CBs who have played great they all had blazing speed not avg speed. Smith has avg speed and is short which is a bad combination. The fact is while many here are thrilled to have Smith as a Raider fan we are ALL thrilled that you have him as well.

                    I am praying that Smith (5'8" 190lbs, 4.53 speed) starts and has to cover one of these WRs all day:

                    Schilens - 6'4" 225 lbs, 4.38
                    Heyward-Bey - 6'2" 210 lbs, 4.30
                    Walker - 6' 3", 215 lbs, (not sure how fast he is after the knee injury)
                    Murphy - 6'2", 205 lbs, 4.40

                    If Smith plays in the slot he will be matched up against Darren McFadden sometimes too. The interesting thing is if the Raiders force the Broncos to see the field in the Nickel offense there will be a big advantage for the Raiders.

                    Remember, it is not just the fact that he will have to cover but he will also have to tackle these big WRs. Here is the scouting report on Smith:
                    Well first things first, your WRS suck lol.

                    They don't scare anyone.

                    WR height don't mean anything.

                    You saw what little 5'11" Eddie Royal did to you right?

                    Little 5'9"3/4 Alphonso smith will have the same kind of game, just defensively.

                    And second, is the only thing Smith has to improve on a lot is tackling, we're in good shape.

                    Good form tackling can be taught in one day of training camp.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                      Well first things first, your ENTIRE RAIDER TEAM sucks lol.
                      .
                      Fixed.
                      sigpic

                      I adopt andrewmlb.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Papa-pwn View Post
                        Well first things first, your WRS suck lol.

                        They don't scare anyone.

                        WR height don't mean anything.

                        You saw what little 5'11" Eddie Royal did to you right?

                        Little 5'9"3/4 Alphonso smith will have the same kind of game, just defensively.

                        And second, is the only thing Smith has to improve on a lot is tackling, we're in good shape.

                        Good form tackling can be taught in one day of training camp.
                        Spoken like a true fan in denial! How long has Smith played football? Tackling is taught in high school and if he hasn't learned it yet there is no way he will learn it now. I remember fans saying the same thing about Huff and he still can't tackle.

                        I remember Broncos fans pumping Dre Bly a couple years back. No one said our WRs are great or even anything above average. I REALLY hope McDaniels does believe the same as you and starts Smith. The resulting score will be worse then this
                        Last edited by OTF; 06-27-2009, 12:24 PM.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by OTF View Post
                          Spoken like a true fan in denial!
                          Raiders fan talking about a true fan in denial.

                          Arent you guys the laughing stock of the NFL since that SB appearance?

                          Arent you guys the one with Al Davis as an owner?

                          Have you heard anyone says anything optimistic about Oakland in YEARS?



                          The very definition of denial is a Raider fan thinking they will win more than 4 games in a season where Al Davis is the owner.



                          This is my prediction on Oaklands season....

                          Last edited by McSmashie; 06-27-2009, 12:41 PM.
                          sigpic

                          I adopt andrewmlb.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                            Have you heard anyone says anything optimistic about Oakland in YEARS?
                            Even Charger fans have more realistic view of the AFC West!

                            link
                            My question is this, after the Broncos finish the season 5-11 will McDaniel be fired?
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I don't think a vert of 34" should really be called "hops"...Champs 44" vert is "hops"...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                                This article is flawed in my opinion, though I like it's premise...not judging a CB purely on his size. However, it is not an objective article, but rather a fan fluff piece.

                                We just watched Larry Fitzgerald outjump CB after CB last postseason as the Cardinals made their run to the Superbowl. And, as the article has mentioned, Randy Moss has been doing it for years. But, the article likes to claim Moss is the anomaly, that's incorrect. Plaxxico Burress has been a famous jump ball guy his entire career, when he was released, Eli Manning begged for another WR with size to be signed/drafted. Ben Roethlisberger did the same thing the year before. There are plenty more such as Andre Johnson, Marques Colston, Vincent Jackson, Braylon Edwards, TJ Houshmanzadeh, Calvin Johnson, and even Terrell Owens. If we move to Tight Ends, Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates both became famous for out-jumping opponents for the ball, especially in the red zone, and much was made of their previous basketball experience. And their teams threw that jump ball an awful lot over the years.

                                The reality is that height and the jump ball is a prominent aspect of football as we know it. Darrell Green might have been great in the past, but its a fact that athlete's are now taller, have more mass, and are faster than the athlete's from the previous century. WRs also jump higher now among other athletic measureables.

                                The reality is that Alphonso Smith, or Darrell Green in his prime, would not be able to defend today's 6'2 or taller WR/TE with a decent vertical. What's more though, is they will not be asked to do so in the red zone, which is where the jump ball is most commonly displayed. Now, on a 50 yard fly pattern? There are so many more variables at stake for a "bomb" that rarely does it become a jump ball, though it happens enough to not be rare. Fans of football watched Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald put on a clinic concerning the jump ball last year, while Randy Moss and Braylon Edwards did so the year before. When a short CB with average vertical ability finds himself playing across from one of these types of WRs, the team has to give him help over the top from a Safety with size. Now, in regards to 5-10 yard out patterns and slants? Those are more timing related with YAC a concern so a jump ball is not often sought, but on 3rd down, an out pattern to move the sticks is another common sight to see a shorter CB picked on. We'll need to be prepared for that.

                                And in the end, that is the end. Alphonso's lack of height and questionable vertical ability (32 inch vertical which is not impressive for a CB) mean he will never be asked to match up with a jump ball calibur receiver/TE. Does this mean he can't be a #1 or #2 CB? No. It just means when we play a receiver with those types of skills, he'll need help over the top, or doubling in the red zone. It's an annoyance, and it's definitely a detriment. The fact Smith only has 31 inch arms doesn't help either. But the guy has talent and against most NFL WRs, he can match up nicely. His intangibles and ball skills are incredible. But the article remains a fluff piece. His 5'8 height alone hurts him, and it greatly limits his use against jump balls to taller, more athletic athletes, but the big problem is that Smith isn't that fast (4.53 40), he can't jump that high, he isn't very strong (13 reps), he has average length arms at best, AND he's short. However, if you do play him as a pure slot nickelback, all of that is erased because he's going against smaller, quicker WRs and that's where he shines.

                                I loved the Alphonso Smith draft trade and selection. You have to have a dynamic nickelback in the NFL these days, and he can easily start outside as well if you give him some help against certain types of WRs and offenses. But to dismiss the lack of height and other physical attributes is not being objective. Smith is a flawed CB, and he has limits, just like everyone else. The tall WR and jump ball is absolutely a big one. Luckily, and the underlying point throughout the article, playing CB in the NFL requires much more than being able to defend tall WRs. Also, and again, there are studies that show teams are in their nickel packages over 50% of the time. That means the nickelback is a defensive starter in reality. A key position. As far as ideal nickelbacks go, Smith is the prototypes. *If* that's all he ever is, having a top nickelback when the Superbowl likely goes through New England and Wes Welker, is not a bad thing at all. Identify Smith's strengths, accept his flaws, and lets not try to gloss over either.
                                You forgot to factor in some very important things.

                                The guys that criticize the Broncos are wrong and don't have credibility. The guys that praise the Broncos are right and have a lot of credibility. Always remember that.
                                2 of the top 3 NFL QBs of all time have been Broncos

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X