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  • #61
    Originally posted by Goatmaster View Post
    and shanahan never was?
    Not a good example, lol... Do you want the same thing to happen to McDaniels as what happened to Shanahan at his first head coaching job in the NFL? Also, Shanahan didn't run off his starting QB at his first job.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Mount-n-Groan View Post
      Actually, Shanny was a big proponent of the 3-4, but until the very end operated under the long-held, and ultimately wrong, belief that it couldn't work in the NFL. After years of acquiring 4-3 players and hiring/firing 4-3 DCs he suddening decided to put it in last year.

      From here... http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_10730691
      That article doenst say anything about Shanny believeing it wouldnt work in the NFL, just that coaches didnt believe it could translate. I think it was a personal preference of Shanny's, taking it from his mentor Walsh to run the 4-3, and from his own experience of running it during the super bowl years.


      Yes, it was Shanny's decision to install a 3-4 scheme last year, mid-stream, using stock and coaching that couldn't make the 4-3 work, let alone a 3-4. It wasn't the death knell for Mike Shanahan, but the bell ringer was climbing the tower.

      Seriously, it was like jumping off a less than average banged up horse after the first stretch of the Kentucky Derby and climbing on a donkey with a broken leg... with the horse in tow just in case you needed him again. Ridiculous. I blame Shanny for last year's defense just as much as I blame Slowik. I'm not sure if Shanny was hopelessly desperate, just trying to be cute and catch up, or what, but it blew up in his face in the most major of ways.
      That article actually had the opposite effect on me. We didnt have the personnel, but, the defense performed better using the 3-4. Gives me some more hope that this year, it might work out better than I expected.

      A little off topic, but, I believe a bigger reason for the switch came because of how much the staff like Winborn, and wanted to get him and some other LBs more playing time (I remember that being mentioned at some point during a game where we ran a lot of 3-4).
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      I think Ben Tate will be the best back taken in the 2010 draft. (5/3/10)
      SportsXPicks, check out the Rants and Opinions section

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      • #63
        Originally posted by jhns View Post
        Not a good example, lol... Do you want the same thing to happen to McDaniels as what happened to Shanahan at his first head coaching job in the NFL? Also, Shanahan didn't run off his starting QB at his first job.
        shanny didnt get two first round picks, a third rounder, and a young QB when his first QB left either:salute!:
        Darcel McBath 2009 Adopt-a-Bronco

        McDaniel's Assistant Assylum: Defensive Line Coach

        Jay Cutler 336-555 3666 yards 27 TD 26 INT 7W 9L
        vs.
        Kyle Orton 336-541 3802 yards 21 TD 12 INT 8W 8L
        Robert Ayers 18 Tackles 1 TD
        First Round Pick TBA

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by jhns View Post
          Not a good example, lol... Do you want the same thing to happen to McDaniels as what happened to Shanahan at his first head coaching job in the NFL? Also, Shanahan didn't run off his starting QB at his first job.
          and I would very much like things to go the same way as shanny over the first few years, two super bowls sound good to me. unless he had a job as head coach before he was here. i heard he was with the raiders but i thought that was as a coordinator. dunno it was before my time. anyways:go:
          Darcel McBath 2009 Adopt-a-Bronco

          McDaniel's Assistant Assylum: Defensive Line Coach

          Jay Cutler 336-555 3666 yards 27 TD 26 INT 7W 9L
          vs.
          Kyle Orton 336-541 3802 yards 21 TD 12 INT 8W 8L
          Robert Ayers 18 Tackles 1 TD
          First Round Pick TBA

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Goatmaster View Post
            and I would very much like things to go the same way as shanny over the first few years, two super bowls sound good to me. unless he had a job as head coach before he was here. i heard he was with the raiders but i thought that was as a coordinator. dunno it was before my time. anyways:go:
            Shanahan got fired in his rookie year without finishing the season.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by jhns View Post
              Shanahan got fired in his rookie year without finishing the season.
              touché sir
              Darcel McBath 2009 Adopt-a-Bronco

              McDaniel's Assistant Assylum: Defensive Line Coach

              Jay Cutler 336-555 3666 yards 27 TD 26 INT 7W 9L
              vs.
              Kyle Orton 336-541 3802 yards 21 TD 12 INT 8W 8L
              Robert Ayers 18 Tackles 1 TD
              First Round Pick TBA

              Comment


              • #67
                Yes I'm happy so far with what McDaniels is doing. In a way, I look at him as an underdog. So many have been critical of his every move. Not many are giving him a chance to be successful. Others are ready to tar and feather the guy already for changes that have taken place over the off season. But I like all the changes made from the positive point of view. I cheer him on and root for him to succeed. I have a good feeling he won't be like other Belichick off-shoots that have failed ala Mangini, Crennell, Weise, etc. I think McDaniels is different and we will all be pleasantly surprised by his coaching, utilization of talent, innovation, and at the end of the day, wins for our team.
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                • #68
                  To the Chef guy:

                  Before coming to Denver, McDaniels was seen as one of the brightest offensive coordinators in the league, and back in 2007 he was already being targeted as a potential head coach.

                  McDaniels brought Mike Nolan to install a 3-4 defense. Then Nolan brought NT Ronald Fields from the 49ers to help the transition. Michael Lombardi thinks Fields was our most important acquisition in the offseason. He was not a starter but he is a big body who knows the system and will push the competition.

                  Drafted Robert Ayers who is a perfect fit at OLB and strong enough to play DE on passing downs and 4-3 packages, we all know how Mike Mayock likes him and what he did at the Senior Bowl. Signed Chris Baker, a rookie NT who had the same production as BJ Raji in 2008. Overall, our defense got bigger and will be more aggressive. We have the personnel to run a 3-4 defense. Marcus Thomas said he gained 10 pounds. Our DEs have 300 pounds. Cartlon Powell is healthy, and he is known as a great run stopper.

                  Secondary: totally improved. McDaniels brought Brian Dawkins, who is in the end of his career but still managed to make 75 tackles, 3 sacks and force 6 fumbles in 2008. He can be the nasty safety in the box that Rodney Harrison was for the Patriots. A, experienced leader that will make the defense play harder and smarter. Signed Andre Goodman, one of the highlights of the Dolphins defense with 19 passes deflected and 5 interceptions. Plays better in press coverage than Dre Bly. Renaldo Hill is nothing special but last season we had scrubs like Manuel, Rogers and Lowry on the field. McCree was injured. Fox won't make the final roster, probably.

                  And there are still the rookies. Alphonso Smith, the most productive CB of the 2009 draft with 40 pass defelctions and 21 interceptions, not to mention his forced fumbles and returns for touchdown. Darcel McBath, a ballhawk and David Bruton, an athletic freak, came to add new blood and talent to the secondary. All of them are smart guys with leadership skills.

                  Drafted Knowshon Moreno who is a great weapon that can run, catch and block really well. A RB with huge talent that brings identity to the position. Since Shanahan traded Portis, we lacked a franchsie RB. Guys were coming and going without making the needed impact. We have a great OL that remained intact and will open big holes once again. We drafted Richard Quinn who is an outstanding blocker to make things even easier for our RBs. The running game will be very strong. Drafted Kenny McKinley, a WR that broke Sterling Sharpe's record for yards and receptions at South Carolina. In the end, we added really good players through the draft. Like Mike Mayock said, it won't matter how we got them if they produce on the field.

                  Orton at quarterback won't be the doom and gloom announced by the misinformed media. He was a starter for the Bears, getting the job done and playing through an ankle injury. Now, he has a better OL to protect him and better, true WRs that get open and catch the ball. Plus, he will play in a system that suits his skills, bringing him back to his days at Purdue. And with the running game looking good, Orton won't need to air it out all day long.

                  And you should be worried about the Chefs. Their transition to the 3-4 defense is not smelling good. Tamba Hali is reportedly struggling. Mike Vrabel skipped the workouts. There is no NT (size, experience or both). Your NT will be as big as our DEs. Todd Haley is a yelling, hot headed coach. You spent the 3rd overall pick on a 3-4 DE who is under 300 pounds when you needed a guy like BJ Raji to fill the NT spot. Things are not that good in Chef city for you to come here and joke around.
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                  • #69
                    Looking at the poll results it would appear a large majority are inded happy with the changes.

                    Looking at the threads on this forum however, one would think the opposite is true, with most hating the changes.

                    This is reality - the minority cries loud and hard and gives a false impresion they are the majorty, lol.

                    I am glad to see most on here truly get it - we needed change.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by MoXplant View Post
                      Looking at the poll results it would appear a large majority are inded happy with the changes.
                      Large majority? Are we looking at the same results? 17 more votes out of 115 yes and no votes is a large majority?

                      Originally posted by MoXplant View Post
                      Looking at the threads on this forum however, one would think the opposite is true, with most hating the changes.
                      Until you realize a ton of the yes and maybe votes are the same people in all of the threads you are talking about.

                      Originally posted by MoXplant View Post
                      This is reality - the minority cries loud and hard and gives a false impresion they are the majorty, lol.
                      Again, a lot of the poeple that say yes and maybe are the same ones in all of those threads keeping them alive. Maybe those are the interesting topics? I mean, the "large majority" likes the changes and the large majority can't keep their uninteresting "positive" threads going..... Again, people talk about the interesting topics.


                      Originally posted by MoXplant View Post
                      I am glad to see most on here truly get it - we needed change.
                      The people that voted no can also think we needed change. I voted no and I think we needed change. I even liked everything up until the Cutler debacle. I think it was time for Shanny to go. I liked the McDaniels hire. I liked some of the guys he brought in. Then he gave away our QB. He gave away next years first as we are rebuilding the entire team. He also has spent just as many resources on our very good offense as he has on our all time worst defense.

                      Change for the sake of change is never a good thing. If you are going to change, you still have to be smart about it. Just changing to change is rediculous. To say it is a good thing just because we have change, no matter what changes have been made, is even more rediculous.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                        ... why not? What's not to like?

                        The old head coach wasn't getting the job done, so now we have a new one.:clap:

                        The new staff decides what's best for the team.

                        Which would you prefer, a HC or a committee of fans who behave like the high school football parents from HELL?
                        Ok...You were doing so good until your last comment...Your remark makes you look like a middle school student.


                        My whole problem is simple. This isn't a wait and see approach due to the fact that if this goes Bad, We aren't in trouble for 1 Season, it will be many...

                        Second...If this guy came from any other Team, everyone would be so scared and pissed off but because he came from the New England your giving him the roayl treatment..

                        That brings me to my final point...WHY - not one single Coach off that team has been a success not even in College

                        The Fact that people want to say that Shanny wasn't getting the Job done is absurd, there are 31 Teams every year that don't get the job done and most are bottom dwellers for years. That list hasn't had the Broncos on it since Shanny took over.

                        So why don't you guy's put on your NFL Hats and think for yourself and stop letting everyone else do it for you.

                        This guy hasn't signed or made one single trade or off Season move that adds up. Moreno would've been drafted even if Shanny was here, but then again he would've shared the back field with Hillis & Cutler at the same time.

                        As Normal....Jhns is standing up to you guy's while the others that believe just what we do are hiding...

                        DON'T WORRY JHNS - ALMOST THE ENTIRE NFL NATION AGREES WITH US, EVERY INTERVIEW & EVERY PERSON THEY TALK TOO ALL SAY THE SAME THING ..*** What is this guy doing and the worst of all, I see Denver battling the Raiders for last place in the West.
                        Last edited by theflammer; 07-02-2009, 07:22 AM.
                        We are the Organization that " EVERYONE " wants to be a part of


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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
                          To the Chef guy:

                          Before coming to Denver, McDaniels was seen as one of the brightest offensive coordinators in the league, and back in 2007 he was already being targeted as a potential head coach.

                          McDaniels brought Mike Nolan to install a 3-4 defense. Then Nolan brought NT Ronald Fields from the 49ers to help the transition. Michael Lombardi thinks Fields was our most important acquisition in the offseason. He was not a starter but he is a big body who knows the system and will push the competition.

                          Drafted Robert Ayers who is a perfect fit at OLB and strong enough to play DE on passing downs and 4-3 packages, we all know how Mike Mayock likes him and what he did at the Senior Bowl. Signed Chris Baker, a rookie NT who had the same production as BJ Raji in 2008. Overall, our defense got bigger and will be more aggressive. We have the personnel to run a 3-4 defense. Marcus Thomas said he gained 10 pounds. Our DEs have 300 pounds. Cartlon Powell is healthy, and he is known as a great run stopper.

                          Secondary: totally improved. McDaniels brought Brian Dawkins, who is in the end of his career but still managed to make 75 tackles, 3 sacks and force 6 fumbles in 2008. He can be the nasty safety in the box that Rodney Harrison was for the Patriots. A, experienced leader that will make the defense play harder and smarter. Signed Andre Goodman, one of the highlights of the Dolphins defense with 19 passes deflected and 5 interceptions. Plays better in press coverage than Dre Bly. Renaldo Hill is nothing special but last season we had scrubs like Manuel, Rogers and Lowry on the field. McCree was injured. Fox won't make the final roster, probably.

                          And there are still the rookies. Alphonso Smith, the most productive CB of the 2009 draft with 40 pass defelctions and 21 interceptions, not to mention his forced fumbles and returns for touchdown. Darcel McBath, a ballhawk and David Bruton, an athletic freak, came to add new blood and talent to the secondary. All of them are smart guys with leadership skills.

                          Drafted Knowshon Moreno who is a great weapon that can run, catch and block really well. A RB with huge talent that brings identity to the position. Since Shanahan traded Portis, we lacked a franchsie RB. Guys were coming and going without making the needed impact. We have a great OL that remained intact and will open big holes once again. We drafted Richard Quinn who is an outstanding blocker to make things even easier for our RBs. The running game will be very strong. Drafted Kenny McKinley, a WR that broke Sterling Sharpe's record for yards and receptions at South Carolina. In the end, we added really good players through the draft. Like Mike Mayock said, it won't matter how we got them if they produce on the field.

                          Orton at quarterback won't be the doom and gloom announced by the misinformed media. He was a starter for the Bears, getting the job done and playing through an ankle injury. Now, he has a better OL to protect him and better, true WRs that get open and catch the ball. Plus, he will play in a system that suits his skills, bringing him back to his days at Purdue. And with the running game looking good, Orton won't need to air it out all day long.

                          And you should be worried about the Chefs. Their transition to the 3-4 defense is not smelling good. Tamba Hali is reportedly struggling. Mike Vrabel skipped the workouts. There is no NT (size, experience or both). Your NT will be as big as our DEs. Todd Haley is a yelling, hot headed coach. You spent the 3rd overall pick on a 3-4 DE who is under 300 pounds when you needed a guy like BJ Raji to fill the NT spot. Things are not that good in Chef city for you to come here and joke around.
                          >>>> Sounds Like Your Talking about Charlie Weis ....

                          Excuse me but wasn't he the MAN in New England, Wasn't he the GURU everyone wanted, Excuse me wasn't he the GUY that Teams waited for to come out - Just ask Notre Dame how thats turning out...

                          Every Championship Team has their Coaches pick through and NONE work out with the first team or teams they Coach, Just ask Bellicheat....I wonder what the Browns are thinking right about not.

                          I ask you to PROVE, JUST NAME 1 ( i'll throw in Mike Holmgren to get you started )
                          Last edited by theflammer; 07-02-2009, 07:35 AM.
                          We are the Organization that " EVERYONE " wants to be a part of


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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by theflammer View Post
                            Ok...You were doing so good until your last comment...Your remark makes you look like a middle school student.


                            My whole problem is simple. This isn't a wait and see approach due to the fact that if this goes Bad, We aren't in trouble for 1 Season, it will be many...

                            Second...If this guy came from any other Team, everyone would be so scared and pissed off but because he came from the New England your giving him the roayl treatment..

                            That brings me to my final point...WHY - not one single Coach off that team has been a success not even in College

                            The Fact that people want to say that Shanny wasn't getting the Job done is absurd, there are 31 Teams every year that don't get the job done and most are bottom dwellers for years. That list hasn't had the Broncos on it since Shanny took over.

                            So why don't you guy's put on your NFL Hats and think for yourself and stop letting everyone else do it for you.

                            This guy hasn't signed or made one single trade or off Season move that adds up. Moreno would've been drafted even if Shanny was here, but then again he would've shared the back field with Hillis & Cutler at the same time.

                            As Normal....Jhns is standing up to you guy's while the others that believe just what we do are hiding...

                            DON'T WORRY JHNS - ALMOST THE ENTIRE NFL NATION AGREES WITH US, EVERY INTERVIEW & EVERY PERSON THEY TALK TOO ALL SAY THE SAME THING ..*** What is this guy doing and the worst of all, I see Denver battling the Raiders for last place in the West.
                            Well, flamm
                            I know you would rather look good than feel good.:salute!:

                            So, flamm, tell me ... after all these years of so masterly playing your role ... do you ever want to direct?
                            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                              Well, flamm
                              I know you would rather look good than feel good.:salute!:

                              So, flamm, tell me ... after all these years of so masterly playing your role ... do you ever want to direct?
                              Nah...I am good with being a Football Guy and not a band member...
                              We are the Organization that " EVERYONE " wants to be a part of


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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by theflammer View Post
                                Ok...You were doing so good until your last comment...Your remark makes you look like a middle school student.


                                My whole problem is simple. This isn't a wait and see approach due to the fact that if this goes Bad, We aren't in trouble for 1 Season, it will be many...

                                Second...If this guy came from any other Team, everyone would be so scared and pissed off but because he came from the New England your giving him the roayl treatment..

                                That brings me to my final point...WHY - not one single Coach off that team has been a success not even in College

                                The Fact that people want to say that Shanny wasn't getting the Job done is absurd, there are 31 Teams every year that don't get the job done and most are bottom dwellers for years. That list hasn't had the Broncos on it since Shanny took over.

                                So why don't you guy's put on your NFL Hats and think for yourself and stop letting everyone else do it for you.

                                This guy hasn't signed or made one single trade or off Season move that adds up. Moreno would've been drafted even if Shanny was here, but then again he would've shared the back field with Hillis & Cutler at the same time.

                                As Normal....Jhns is standing up to you guy's while the others that believe just what we do are hiding...

                                DON'T WORRY JHNS - ALMOST THE ENTIRE NFL NATION AGREES WITH US, EVERY INTERVIEW & EVERY PERSON THEY TALK TOO ALL SAY THE SAME THING ..*** What is this guy doing and the worst of all, I see Denver battling the Raiders for last place in the West.

                                Actually Sam's last comment was true to an absurd point........people on this board get mad if he sits there favorite player, or doesn't hand the ball enough to there favorite back, or throws to much to the not favorite player. People here are so wrapped up in what they "want" to make a good team, and don't "know" or they would be at least coaching in say D-I somewhere. It is EXACTLY like parents who “played back in the day” and know that there kid should be playing but isn’t because the stupid coach doesn’t like them, and doesn’t know crap….

                                You have hung your hat on three coaches who have left Belichecks tree. Mangini, Crannell and Weiss (sure i got the spelling on all three wrong, but who cares) Mangini and Crenell were defensive coaches under a defensive genius bellichick, weiss went to college, a FAR different game, just ask Steve Spurriur, and Pete Carrol. Recruiting, talent levels, and commitment levels make it a far different animal. Now you have a member, who not only took the reigns on Weiss's offense, but out performed weiss's offense, been excelling for 4 years as OC/ (called plays and schemed in 05, but wasn't known until after the season), and has the conviction and focus to amass an amazing staff, and you want to discard him before one single snap has been taken, EVEN Preseason.

                                Then you want to assert that shannahan was doing fine because he wasn't a "bottom" dweller, well a little food for thought, the last 3 years were worse record, statistically, and rankings wise than either of Wade phillips years, and he was fired after 2. Shannahan was going to keep slowick, and that wasn't going to make us playoff bound. Shannahan was great 6-10 years ago when he was fired up and passionate, but he isn't that same guy anymore. Let alone Denver has NEVER been the worst team, and had #1 pick in the Draft.

                                You then want to say McD hasn’t made one positive decision in the entire off season, try:
                                The Defensive coaching staff at a HUGE A +, Nolan, Wayne Nunely, Don Martindale, and Ed Donnatell are a plethora of knowledge, that shannahan was to egotistical to amass. Then saying Shannahan would have drafted Moreno is ridiculous, he would have whiffed in spectacular fashion on defensive talent as usual. The FA’s and Draft choices have a WHOLE lot of food for thought if you pull your mouth off of the talking heads for 2 seconds and look at why he drafted the people he drafted and the qualities they do have. Rather than taking a 30,000 feet view of some regurgitated scouting analysis.

                                You singling yourself and Jhns as being the standard voice, and being enlightened because of your alignment of the east coast bias reporting who know no other “facts” about Denver’s off season other than “forcing cutler out” the same way Green Bay “forced Farve out” and the Titans “forced McNair out” is laughable. You two hate McD so much that it won’t matter if he goes undefeated this next year you’ll find some excuse on how it wasn’t him that did it, it was someone else. The truth of the matter is that you and Jhns are bound to hate until proven wrong, it is the easiest pessimistic stance possible. Every major news stream has found the broncos as the popular whipping post, only taking into account ½ of the picture, or just hating McD enough to twist concept into reality. That way if he sucks you’ll be right, and if he excels …….your team will win, and there will be enough crow going around that you won’t have to actually eat much.

                                You see it is a no loose situation to go along with the national reporting sheep and link their articles, and drink from their trough, but if you pull out, do some reading you’ll find out that your wrong, plain wrong, and people like MUG, Sam, etc, who may not LOVE everything, but have done enough research to see why, and see that there is a light, are the right ones here.

                                The pessimist, no risk taking, haters here want to assume that me, along with others, are simply “drinking kool-aid” yet only can link to uninformed shock jock articles, filled with ½ baked logic. Or articles cooked up by reporters from rival cities. It isn’t the articles composed out of thought like MHR piecing the puzzle together, or research pieces on the draft-ies, or stuff of the sort. I don’t make a living out of being uninformed, and only reading one side to an argument, I have been skeptical, about every move, and was even on culter’s side before all of this broke, so therefore I can honestly say if you think he is complete garbage, you my friend are the one that is COMPLETELY misinformed.

                                :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:

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