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WHAT? Steve Wyche ranks Elway as the SEVENTH best QB of all time???

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
    I took in consideration how the Patriots were before Tom Brady as their starter. What he meant to their turnaround. And Cassel spent 3 seasons + 1 offseason learning the system.
    perhaps you are right, i just know, for example, if rivers was in brady's spot, and if sd had the same success and the spygate thing

    i'd have a real hard time putting rivers as the best ever even with those amazing numbers


    i don't know, for me the whole spygate thing diminishes the accomplishments

    it's a black eye

    now , that said, yes , most sb teams do cheat, we've got many many examples of the sb champ, having cheated somehow, and being popped by the nfl

    i'd have been happy with the sbs despite them later being diminished due to having cheated, but still, being honest, i wouldn't be able to call my team the top team, or one of the best all time, in that whole spygate era (i wouldn't be able to put any one player in a best of list either, due to that)

    now, that also being said, once spygate ended the pats did go 18-0 then lost in the sb

    so THAT fact i would say puts them (that season's pats) as the 44th best sb era team (43 sb winners ahead of them)


    before spygate i had brady as #2 all time, simply because he hardly ever choked, had a 10 game playoff win streak at one time which is insane, and he put up some nice stats (and my sole reason for him being number 2 was the fact he threw a sb int, and montana never did)

    since his last sb win, he's had a loss to denver, which was a huge choke, but not as bad as that loss in indy....blowing a 20-3 lead....yikes biggest afccg chokejob in the history of the nfl, then follows that with a loss in the sb, after going 18-0 and having the best qb season in the history of the nfl.

    ironic, but for me, in the best season a qb has ever had statistically, brady slips down the list for me, and elway and peyton jump over him

    i can't really say how far he slips ultimately, till his career is over
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    • #77
      Originally posted by Eric Fetzer View Post
      Elway is a better QB than Montana. If Elway would have been the QB for the niners back in the day, he would have won more championships.

      Montana had a better carreer, but Elway is the most talented and skillful QB EVER.
      Sorry.....I love Elway, but Montana was better...in fact, he was the best in my opinion. Calm, cool and collected. True leader. Smart. Elusive. Accurate.

      John was a great QB, but Joe was better.

      Believe me, I am nearly a homer, but I call it as I see it.

      No shame to John...he was amazing, and in my top 5. There have been so many great QBs in history, it's a compliment to be in the top 10-20 alone.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
        Tom Brady is one of the best.
        guys don't be total homers...Tom Brady is great, and Petyon is great as well...

        I think Elway should've been around 5th best...and i don't like the #1 either...

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        • #79
          This belongs in the orange colored section, who cares, he's paid to give his opinion and it is what it is, Elways #'s arent going anywhere and Elway also lost a LOT of SB's before he had a running game, so he wasnt this god u make him out to be

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          • #80
            Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
            With the exception of YA Tittle and Johnny U, Ive seen all those guys play extensively.

            And John deserves to be #1 or #2 behind Montana.

            There was never a bigger gamer than John. When you NEEDED a win, John was the man for it. Best comeback QB in the game. And, for many years, he didnt have alot to work with.

            Favre has the wins record because he isnt smart enough to walk away. Manning shouldnt even be considered YET, and Brady is a system QB that lucked out to be with the right coach and the right team. He is very good, but not all time great.
            Well since you never saw Johnny Unitas play I can understand why you would put Elway and Montana over him. For the record though Unitas is #1, simply put the very best quarterback I have ever seen. In the era of the field general when QB's called all their own plays.......no one ever did it better.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
              I took in consideration how the Patriots were before Tom Brady as their starter. What he meant to their turnaround. And Cassel spent 3 seasons + 1 offseason learning the system.
              They went to the SB with Bledsoe as QB. They werent scrubs. They were well on their way.
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              • #82
                Originally posted by Go_Bolts04 View Post
                You are arguing against yourself now.
                Ewww, I made fun of the Chargers. Bad me.

                But you're right with this last statement. Elway was not a guy who could get it done on his own. He needed guys like TD, Shannon Sharpe and McCaffrey to help him win the big games. Does that make him a bad QB? Not at all..Elway proved over his career that he deserves to be in the discussion of the top QB's of all time. In the discussion, yes, but not necessarily as high as you place him.

                The whole debate is kind of stupid, because not one QB ever went out and played a game, far less a season, or career alone on his own merits. Every QB on every team in every season depended on those around him to help make him successful.
                Wow, what an incredibly obvious observation. Of course no QB won alone. But there are QBs that elevated others and QBs that were elevated by others. Elway elevated others. Thats why he deserves to be higher.

                If when you look at the whole picture. you determine (as an individual) that Elway, or Montana, or Brady or whoever is the greatest who ever played....good for you. Doesn't make you right though.
                Hold onto this thought for a minute.

                Just kind of funny that because Sam Wyche put forth his opinion (the guy isn't football stupid afterall) he gets flamed because your guy isn't higher on his list.

                I'll give you this though...at least you guys are back to talking about a real QB on this board. Until just a few months ago, you were all getting ready to place that pathetic Cutler right up there with Elway. Not so much anymore huh?
                Remember what you said about opinion and being right?

                Bye, bye. :wave:
                Last edited by McSmashie; 07-11-2009, 06:10 PM.
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                • #83
                  Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                  Ewww, I made fun of the Chargers. Bad me.



                  Wow, what an incredibly obvious observation. Of course no QB won alone. But there are QBs that elevated others and QBs that were elevated by others. Elway elevated others. Thats why he deserves to be higher.



                  Hold onto this thought for a minute.



                  Remember what you said about opinion and being right?

                  Bye, bye. :wave:
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                  Hooray, beer!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                    I guess you had to be there ... in the sixties that is.

                    Did you watch Super Bowl III in real time? What about Super Bowl IV?

                    If Joe Namath and the Jets hadn't won Super Bowl III and Len Dawson and the Chiefs hadn't won Super Bowl IV, do you seriously think there would have been an AFL/NFL merger?
                    Yes, because it was legally set in stone a few years prior, so that game had nothing to do with the merger itself, just the sting to the NFL that their new roommates were truly in league. If the AFL had not won a SB prior to the 1970 season, the merger was still going to happen because the ink was already dry.

                    Just think, if Len Dawson or Daryle Lamonica won before Namath gets the chance, all Namath would've been was a QB who won a Superbowl... like a Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson. He probably doesn't make the Hall of Fame. Namath was fortunate that he was the first to win a Superbowl for the AFL, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that as a QB for his entire career, he was average.

                    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                    IMO the accomplishments of Namath and Dawson and the AFL are worth mentioning.
                    It's interesting you said this. To expand on the what if's of Dawson and Lamonica winning before Namath, Dawson would've been in the HOF regardless, as he was a great QB.

                    Lamonica would've been a shoe in for the Hall because of his AFL record of 40-4-1, the best in the AFL all-time, and his overall record of 66-16-4, the second best percentage in NFL history... to this very day. Only Otto Graham was better.

                    Namath deserves his Hall ballot because of that victory, I won't argue that. But take that away, and he gets even more exposure for having a losing record, throwing more TDs than INTS in only 2 of his 12 seasons, having a playoff record of a mighty 2-1, and having 47 more INTs to TDs. No homerism, I can think of three Raider QBs who would get his slot if Namath didn't win SB III, much less a bunch of others around the league who's numbers and game were superior.

                    I didn't even get to him playing in the #1 media market.
                    Last edited by DevilSpawn; 07-11-2009, 07:17 PM.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                      They went to the SB with Bledsoe as QB. They werent scrubs. They were well on their way.
                      And Brady still hasn't passed Bledsoe's career numbers. Probably never will. The next statement I make is 100% true. Ty Law was a better cornerback than Tom Brady was a quarterback. I'm not here to be a Brady hater. He has obviously accomplished some things, but he is the most media inflated quarterback in NFL History. I won't stand by and let some clowns hate on Elway, and give Brady props. I won't believe the BS they try to feed me, because I saw Elway play. I remember.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Spice 1 View Post
                        And Brady still hasn't passed Bledsoe's career numbers. Probably never will. The next statement I make is 100% true. Ty Law was a better cornerback than Tom Brady was a quarterback. I'm not here to be a Brady hater. He has obviously accomplished some things, but he is the most media inflated quarterback in NFL History. I won't stand by and let some clowns hate on Elway, and give Brady props. I won't believe the BS they try to feed me, because I saw Elway play. I remember.
                        Bledsoe is a great example of why stats can be very deceiving.
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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by JBBronco1 View Post
                          If Brady is so great, why did the Patriots have to cheat for him to be successful? He is not better than Elway. This is more of this "the best QB is the one with the most rings" crap. I think that Unitas, Elway, Marino, and Montana are the best ever, followed by Peyton. I wouldn't have Brady in the top-10, even.
                          honestly, to not put brady up there just is silly. I do not like him or how the patriots did things, but you have to man up and say good job when that is done. He has done that.

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                          • #88
                            Brady

                            Originally posted by jwnarl View Post
                            honestly, to not put brady up there just is silly. I do not like him or how the patriots did things, but you have to man up and say good job when that is done. He has done that.
                            What do you mean man up? Maybe you do because you are listening to the mainstream media and their brainwashing. The Pats cheated, and he benefitted. That is truth.

                            Quote "And Brady still hasn't passed Bledsoe's career numbers. Probably never will. The next statement I make is 100% true. Ty Law was a better cornerback than Tom Brady was a quarterback. I'm not here to be a Brady hater. He has obviously accomplished some things, but he is the most media inflated quarterback in NFL History. I won't stand by and let some clowns hate on Elway, and give Brady props. I won't believe the BS they try to feed me, because I saw Elway play. I remember." Quote

                            Spice, I agree. I saw Elway play as well, and Brady isn't as good. He is a system QB that throws dink and dunk passes. I don't know why people can't get that through their head. He won SB's because of the defense and kicker(or kickers in SB 38).

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by JBBronco1 View Post
                              He is a system QB that throws dink and dunk passes.
                              Dink and dunk? Haven't you ever seen his deep throws? He just passed for 4.806 yards in 2007 in 578 attempts, 8.3 average. That's impressive. 50 TDs, 8 INTs. I think that's amazing.
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