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  • #46
    Originally posted by licence_to_kill View Post
    He doesn't really make anyone miss. Not a bad player, but a huge reach as the #12 pick.
    He looks great on the trap and angle sweep, he is, however, to small and inexperienced to be banging it off-guard every play.
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    Hooray, beer!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
      He's probably hitting the rookie wall. He also could be overcompensating for his fumbles earlier in the year. By leaning forward and bracing for contact, it would make it less likely you would fumble. The problem is that if the contact doesn't come, you fall over.

      In the Colts game, Moreno probably kept tripping those few times from the sheer shock of not getting hit as soon as he got the ball.
      Exactly what I was thinking. I don't think he trusts his eyes yet either, so he hits the hole expecting to get hit. On the plus side though, he seems to always fall forward. People knock his vision, but he's still transitioning to the speed of the NFL. Holes are much smaller and they're gone much quicker. The Colts defense is the fastest defense in the NFL. For a rookie, that's got to be tough, especially if you're carrying the load.
      "Pey-Pey to Bay-Bay for the Tay Day!!"

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      • #48
        Moreno

        So it appears that we've reached consensus that Moreno is having a successful rookie campaign AND in the process, helping his team win.

        So the real difference in opinion here lies with his potential beyond this season. I say he is an "NFL back". In my lingo that means he has shown he belongs in the league at the RB position. Based on what I see as an average every-day football fan, he has not performed in a way that would lead me to believe he has superstar ability. (and 1,500 plus 15 TD's is superstar)

        I hope I am wrong, but instead, I'll keep my expectations mellow, so I can be pleasantly surprised.

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        • #49
          HILLIS/BUCK w/NOSHO on 3rd down

          Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
          If not Moreno, who would most of us have drafted at RB? Or would have played RB all year?

          Don't say Hillis because I don't want to hear it.

          I wont say Hillis because you must hate him, instead HILLIS/BUCK combo with KNOSHO as a backup.
          HILLIS for between the tackles and Buck for outside runs. Buck has very good speed. Hillis is the best inside runner they have and has the best hands.

          As I said before, Moreno lacks speed to go outside and is too small for inside. Capable backup tho as he tries hard.(needs to improve his blocking)

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          • #50
            Originally posted by golota View Post
            I wont say Hillis because you must hate him, instead HILLIS/BUCK combo with KNOSHO as a backup.
            HILLIS for between the tackles and Buck for outside runs. Buck has very good speed. Hillis is the best inside runner they have and has the best hands.

            As I said before, Moreno lacks speed to go outside and is too small for inside. Capable backup tho as he tries hard.(needs to improve his blocking)
            I actually like Hillis, I just don't think he's a starter.
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            • #51
              Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
              I actually like Hillis, I just don't think he's a starter.
              He may not be a starter, but I would like to see him play a little more, especially when Buck isn't healthy. I just don't see how he's THAT bad to not be at least getting a couple carries that Buck would have gotten had he been in the game.

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              • #52
                I don't want to rag on Moreno (b/c I like him and wanted us to draft him), but I have to admit I was ticked off last night watching M-Jones-Drew smash Brackett on the goalline and run through him for a TD....

                Just liek against US, Brackett came through the LOS and had MJD, but BAM! He manages to hit-n-squirm and wiggle his way into the endzone (TD).

                MJD also did it a few times on short yardage situations.

                Moreno is bull strong, but he hasn't learned how to get hit and still fall ahead for a yeard or two. Not consistently (or when it really matters).

                Oh well....

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pratama View Post
                  Knowshon will be fine and is going to be a great back for the Bronco's for years to come. I think a lot of people in here have hit on the reason he seems to fall, so I apologize if I repeat some.

                  1) He has hit the rookie wall - - most college football players play 12-13 games in a season, and at that they are not as physical as games in the NFL. So by week 12-13 the "college" body is used to shutting it down, and in the NFL you are playing the most physical football. So he's fatigued.

                  2) He's a rook, so he gets a little too excited and plays too fast so he ends up tripping himself up.

                  3) He is overcompensating for his early season fumbles. . . so he has two hands over the ball as he crosses the line of scrimmage - throwing off his balance.

                  4) McD is getting him used to being a "feature" back. So, he has to learn to stay in games rather than taking himself out because he is going to have to do that to be a "franchise" back. So, he has to be used to getting 20-30 carries per game, a few receptions per game and staying in to block on passing downs.

                  5) He runs with a low pad level. . . this is crucial for two reasons. First, to avoid a negative play when you get hit at the line of scrimmage. Second, to avoid injury - - this was a problem (identified by many on these boards and at the combine) for Ryan Torain, and we all know how that turned out.
                  I could not agree more. You hit the point right on the head. He has done very well for a rook. I expect much better next year and the year after that, but for a rookie season he has been impressive. I just hope that he has put the "butter hands" while crossing the line of scrimmage behind him.
                  BRONCOS

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by golota View Post
                    I wont say Hillis because you must hate him, instead HILLIS/BUCK combo with KNOSHO as a backup.
                    HILLIS for between the tackles and Buck for outside runs. Buck has very good speed. Hillis is the best inside runner they have and has the best hands.

                    As I said before, Moreno lacks speed to go outside and is too small for inside. Capable backup tho as he tries hard.(needs to improve his blocking)
                    why does every thread have to become a Hillis debate....:brick:
                    BRONCOS

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                    • #55
                      Wow Moreno is slow, weak, and dosnt have quickness...some of you are just untapped experts who need to be on the NFL network with your wisdom

                      Yes, Moreno ran a 4.62 40 but he beat out Shonee Green and 11 other backs in his class. Plenty of good no track star backs have made their way through the NFL. Why? because top speed is not required to be a good back but cone drills are.

                      Moreno is weak? Really he had more reps than Rey Rey Maualuga, Clay Mathews, Aaron Maybin, tied Aaron Curry w/ 25 and yes beat out our DT Chris Baker...no wonder he isnt playing much

                      Knownshown was second overall in his class in the cone drill at 6.84. He beat out receivers Mike Wallace and our own Kenny Mckenley. He also beat phonzo Smith in the cone by far

                      I dont know what game some of you are watching but Moreno is anything but slow. He explodes through holes and breaks plenty of tackles. the problem may be some of you arent looking very closely at the film because morenos runs dont last long between the tackles. He broke 3 tackles in the giants game to get in the endzone.

                      When does a running back look like he's tripping? When defenders are diving for his feet. Take a look at film on Barry Sanders....

                      Why would a running back be stumbing? Well other then the aformentioned tackle breaking maybe its a good way to get extra yards. Try tackling a wobbling dummy and see how much force you can get behind it....
                      Last edited by Uptown; 12-18-2009, 05:12 PM.

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                      • #56
                        Moreno is not fast

                        Originally posted by Uptown View Post
                        Wow Moreno is slow, weak, and dosnt have quickness...some of you are just untapped experts who need to be on the NFL network with your wisdom

                        Yes, Moreno ran a 4.62 40 but he beat out Shonee Green and 11 other backs in his class. Plenty of good no track star backs have made their way through the NFL. Why? because top speed is not required to be a good back but cone drills are.

                        Moreno is weak? Really he had more reps than Rey Rey Maualuga, Clay Mathews, Aaron Maybin, tied Aaron Curry w/ 25 and yes beat out our DT Chris Baker...no wonder he isnt playing much

                        Knownshown was second overall in his class in the cone drill at 6.84. He beat out receivers Mike Wallace and our own Kenny Mckenley. He also beat phonzo Smith in the cone by far

                        I dont know what game some of you are watching but Moreno is anything but slow. He explodes through holes and breaks plenty of tackles. the problem may be some of you arent looking very closely at the film because morenos runs dont last long between the tackles. He broke 3 tackles in the giants game to get in the endzone.

                        When does a running back look like he's tripping? When defenders are diving for his feet. Take a look at film on Barry Sanders....

                        Why would a running back be stumbing? Well other then the aformentioned tackle breaking maybe its a good way to get extra yards. Try tackling a wobbling dummy and see how much force you can get behind it....
                        dont know much about cone drills but I have been watching football since the 60s. Dont know what Jim Browns cone drill time was.. But I do know that the only first round RB drafted who ran a 40 that slow in recent memory was Green in 2002 and he didnt turn out very good. Usually Rbs with that kinda time end up in the fourth round unless they are about 230 pounds.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by golota View Post
                          dont know much about cone drills but I have been watching football since the 60s. Dont know what Jim Browns cone drill time was.. But I do know that the only first round RB drafted who ran a 40 that slow in recent memory was Green in 2002 and he didnt turn out very good. Usually Rbs with that kinda time end up in the fourth round unless they are about 230 pounds.
                          Sorry but you have no point in suggesting a RB’s 40 time makes much of a difference in their ability. Apparently, you need to read up on cone drills and the 10 yard split (Moreno ran a 1.52, 1.55 and below is elite) also benched 25reps at 225lbs beating out high profile LB's that some folks here think we'd been better off drafting.....

                          Really, the negative opinions here on Moreno are highly ignorant to say the least. Apparently, a 40 time is the only measurable for success being used around here...how is that working out for Darius Heyward Hayward Bey? Works for Al Davis, right?

                          LT scored a 13 on his wonderlic and is stupid but made a great back...

                          Moreno has a slow 40 time (average actually) but is a poor back because he has only 4.1 ypc and on a pace for a thousand yards.

                          Waaaannnhhh why doesn’t Moreno have 15 touchdowns and 1500 yards like a number 12 pick should have…

                          Blah blah blah I watched football since the sixties and I know what I am talking about….

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                          • #58
                            Moreno is very avg

                            Originally posted by Uptown View Post
                            Sorry but you have no point in suggesting a RB’s 40 time makes much of a difference in their ability. Apparently, you need to read up on cone drills and the 10 yard split (Moreno ran a 1.52, 1.55 and below is elite) also benched 25reps at 225lbs beating out high profile LB's that some folks here think we'd been better off drafting.....

                            Really, the negative opinions here on Moreno are highly ignorant to say the least. Apparently, a 40 time is the only measurable for success being used around here...how is that working out for Darius Heyward Hayward Bey? Works for Al Davis, right?

                            LT scored a 13 on his wonderlic and is stupid but made a great back...

                            Moreno has a slow 40 time (average actually) but is a poor back because he has only 4.1 ypc and on a pace for a thousand yards.

                            Waaaannnhhh why doesn’t Moreno have 15 touchdowns and 1500 yards like a number 12 pick should have…

                            Blah blah blah I watched football since the sixties and I know what I am talking about….
                            The main quality I like in Moreno is his effort. He never stops trying although he loses some concentration on his pass blocking.

                            I think experience and speed is the reason why Buck has a way better ypc than Moreno.
                            Knoshon is not fast enough to get outside and is on the small side for an inside runner. Avg moves. I just dont see what special qualities he has to be the 12th pick in the draft. Besides his cone drills of course. If Buck or Hillis had the same no. of carries as Moreno, they likely would be up over 1000 yds already, IMO.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Uptown View Post
                              Wow Moreno is slow, weak, and dosnt have quickness...some of you are just untapped experts who need to be on the NFL network with your wisdom

                              Yes, Moreno ran a 4.62 40 but he beat out Shonee Green and 11 other backs in his class. Plenty of good no track star backs have made their way through the NFL. Why? because top speed is not required to be a good back but cone drills are.

                              Moreno is weak? Really he had more reps than Rey Rey Maualuga, Clay Mathews, Aaron Maybin, tied Aaron Curry w/ 25 and yes beat out our DT Chris Baker...no wonder he isnt playing much

                              Knownshown was second overall in his class in the cone drill at 6.84. He beat out receivers Mike Wallace and our own Kenny Mckenley. He also beat phonzo Smith in the cone by far

                              I dont know what game some of you are watching but Moreno is anything but slow. He explodes through holes and breaks plenty of tackles. the problem may be some of you arent looking very closely at the film because morenos runs dont last long between the tackles. He broke 3 tackles in the giants game to get in the endzone.

                              When does a running back look like he's tripping? When defenders are diving for his feet. Take a look at film on Barry Sanders....

                              Why would a running back be stumbing? Well other then the aformentioned tackle breaking maybe its a good way to get extra yards. Try tackling a wobbling dummy and see how much force you can get behind it....
                              Dude, all you can do is this....:brick: :shake::brick:

                              They truly are clueless. No rationale whatsoever. It is like a bad football religion!! Believe what they are told!! Most of these people watch a different game than I do! I swear!

                              Guess some people lack the knowledge of football and how to EXECUTE! Like Coach jmcd said, Franco Harris couldn't have gotten a yard with that play". Hell, less than a year ago these same jackasses were wanting us to "draft a guy that will help us in the future"....now we're a good, young team that has a good mixture of vets and a winning record with a legitimate shot at the playoffs.

                              And if they did/could/would watch and observe!! football they would realize that km runs very very hard...which may be why he is top 15 in all categories and has buck taking runs away. He is top 11 or 12 in yards per carry (4.1) compared to players with over 180 attempts!!!!!!

                              He runs hard and if we get into the playoffs this team could be dangerous!! I believe that. They have to win one in postseason then I think they go crazy!! It could happen as easily as it couldn't happen!!

                              GO !!!!

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                              • #60
                                More Moreno

                                I don't quibble with drafting Moreno in Round 1 @ #12. Lord knows we were all growing weary of RB by committee. I have been watching football since the 60's myself and Moreno is a good back, but not a player you "mail in" as a starter year in/out.

                                The reason he's not a lock to be in the lineup, is he's not a stud broken field runner. (Watch Brandon Marshall run after the catch to see what I mean). He can't outrun guys to the corner then dust them enroute to the end zone.

                                He's a nice back, who has done well as a rookie. He looks to have a future in the NFL but will never be an elite back as he is not gifted with outright footspeed, super field vision, or great hands.

                                He looks pretty ordinary to me, but here's hoping he runs wild vs. da Raida's.

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