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  • #76
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    I didn't anticipate that thought process, given that the OP took a misguided shot at me for being too tough on Marsh (in a previous thread), to which I provided evidence that I have supported Brandon. Just didn't get the humour right away, based on that other experience.

    So it's humour........if that's the case, fine with me.

    Nothing more......
    I didn't see the poll when it came up, so I'm not sure what my reaction would have been initially. but after reading the first page, it was quite clear what he was trying to do, which is to somehow influence thought by manipulating a poll.

    It's quite a common practice in the political field, but just like politicians will talk in circles, a lot of people don't understand the implications when answering a push poll that they don't even realize is a push poll. Andrew didn't seem to be hiding his purpose,nor his disrespect for polls in general.

    I thought is was quite creative.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by broncolee View Post
      If Marshall faked the injury, which I doubt he did, then he was in the wrong and should be removed from the team.

      If you want to make this about business, then Marshall, as a business man, had a responsibility to provide the service for which he was contracted to perform. If he had indeed faked the injury, that would essentially put him in a breach of contract. He was contracted to play the game of football for the Broncos in all games for which he is eligible and healthy enough to play. Faking an injury would be the same as him committing fraud in order to get out of his responsibility to live up to his contract.

      I think Marshall is enough of a competitor that he wasn't faking the injury, but that doesn't mean he wasn't exaggerating the impact of the injury. That too is reason enough to get rid of him if that's what the Broncos believe happened. The Broncos were going into a very important game and needed all available players to help win that game. If Marshall was healthy enough to play, he should have played and should not have gone to the coaches and said he didn't think he could play.

      With a negative MRI it's understandable that the coaches might have thought Marshall was exaggerating the impact of his injury. That, however, doesn't mean that McDaniels should have publicly questioned Marshall's toughness. He should have waited until game time to see if Marshall would be ready and willing to go. If Marshall still said that he couldn't go, then McDaniels should have waited until after the season was over to talk to Marshall to find out where he stands on his commitment to the team.

      If Marshall's only motivation is money then he needs to go somewhere else. A team that truly wants to compete for the playoffs can't put up with a player who isn't committed to winning.
      wrong again the broncos look like they just dont want to pay him so dont give the broncos the benefit of the dought because thats a bunch of bs. marshalls production is almost unmatched in the nfl, also the way he plays. since the incident in training camp all he did was put up with mcdaniels and done very well might i add. dont forget last season he played with a messed up hip ALL YEAR and what did he get in return??? a bunch of idiotic/stupid fans and an organization being ungrateful towards him. i will repeat this to you and the whole message board EVERY PLAYER IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! Marshall gets paid pennies compared to wr like fitzgerald, andre johnson, heck even calvin johnson and he never had a 100 catch season in the nfl. why else would you play in a GAME where you risk your life and i mean thats, on every play every game??? its all aboiut the money and dont act like its not for every player. like i said before (again) the patriots did it with average players and why??? they straight up cheated because notice since mangini ratted bellichek out they havent won a super bowl, thank you mangini :salute!: enough said about the money theory pay the man because he earned it and no one can deny that

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by andrewmlb View Post
        Answer me this Alastor, if we got rid of Rod Smith's production, in the prime of his career, would our offense be worse?

        If the answer is yes, then how is it wrong for me to make this poll?
        Once again you're misrepresenting your position. While it's a somewhat clever trick I suppose, it's really not very genuine and it doesn't really have a place in reasonable discussions.

        Rod Smith had much greater production than Brandon Marshall has so far.

        Beyond that, there are the other factors that you're not including that matter. Leadership, integrity, character, behavior off the field, and so on.

        Brandon Marshall has a lot of physical talent, but he's no Rod Smith.

        As soon as you ask a fair question that isn't intended to mislead or manipulate, I'll be happy to engage you further. For right now, I'm just going to keep pointing out that the questions you're asking simply aren't authentic or relevant.

        Comment


        • #79
          It is of my belief that we would win more without him.

          I disagree with these questions. Just admit it dude. When so many people notice and disagree with you, something has to be flawed.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Alastor View Post
            Once again you're misrepresenting your position. While it's a somewhat clever trick I suppose, it's really not very genuine and it doesn't really have a place in reasonable discussions.

            Rod Smith had much greater production than Brandon Marshall has so far.

            Beyond that, there are the other factors that you're not including that matter. Leadership, integrity, character, behavior off the field, and so on.

            Brandon Marshall has a lot of physical talent, but he's no Rod Smith.

            As soon as you ask a fair question that isn't intended to mislead or manipulate, I'll be happy to engage you further. For right now, I'm just going to keep pointing out that the questions you're asking simply aren't authentic or relevant.
            The question I asked is about production, not once did I mention character or leadership or work-ethic. As far as production on the field, Rod has only had 1 year that surpasses Brandon's last year. Besides that, their career's are pretty comparable.

            It's really hard to get straight up answers around here. If we get rid of 100+ rec. 1100+ yds. and 10 tds, will our offense be worse? That is as fair as it gets.
            I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
            I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
            I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
            "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
            God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
            Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by broncolee View Post
              When was Marshall promised a payday? I remember Bowlen suggesting that Marshall was playing his way into a nice contract but I don't recall any reports of Marshall being promised a payday.

              Let's not forget that Marshall has still yet to prove that he can get through an offseason without getting arrested.

              If he leaves then he leaves. The Broncos will just have to find another way to move the ball.
              he wasnt but how long will he have to wait to get paid what he deserves and dont you forget that all his charges were dropped aka he was inicent from beating his wife (may i remind you) you guys are a big deal put of nothing you pay someone for their production and he only got suspended ONCE and no matter the reason it was only for ONE game. so what has he done so wrong to this organization that the organization cant pay him the big contract that he deserves??? if bowlen said he was playing his way into a contract and marshall when it was all said in done went over 100 catches, doesnt that garuntee him a contract??? i think it does... PAY THE MAN

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Hoserman117 View Post
                It is of my belief that we would win more without him.

                I disagree with these questions. Just admit it dude. When so many people notice and disagree with you, something has to be flawed.
                I'm glad you believe that. But at least explain why. Who will pick up the drop off that Brandon leaves.

                I didn't realize that being in the minority = being wrong. Just because 3 people keep posting against me, doesn't solidify them as the truth or majority, no matter their position on the board.
                I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
                I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
                I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
                "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
                God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
                Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

                Comment


                • #83
                  funny thread andrew....the poll clearly goes over the heads of many here

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by andrewmlb View Post
                    I'm glad you believe that. But at least explain why. Who will pick up the drop off that Brandon leaves.

                    I didn't realize that being in the minority = being wrong. Just because 3 people keep posting against me, doesn't solidify them as the truth or majority, no matter their position on the board.
                    Gaffney Royal,Lloyd,Stokely and whoever else we add to the team. To suggest that the only reason we won is because of Marshall is crazy.

                    For every T.O you let go there is a Miles Austin waiting to step up.
                    "(Touchdowns) are the goal," Orton said. "You can run for as many yards as you want, throw for as many yards as you want, but you have to convert to seven points. I think we're going to be explosive, be dynamic, be versatile."

                    "Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," - Kyle Orton

                    Kyle Orton Army member #83 :logo: :smug:

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by KO8pectate View Post
                      Gaffney Royal,Lloyd,Stokely and whoever else we add to the team. To suggest that the only reason we won is because of Marshall is crazy.

                      For every T.O you let go there is a Miles Austin waiting to step up.
                      Very true, and when we do get rid of Marshall, I really hope one of those players can make up the difference. Do I believe they can? Probably not, but that's what were left with, they will have to do more.

                      I just think Brandon is taken for granted here a little bit. Top 5 wr's who get paid close to the league minimum don't grow on trees. You have to admit, without brandon, we would not have been 8-8.

                      I don't think that is such a bold statement. Without Orton we wouldn't be 8-8, or Doom. This applies to a lot of people. Would we be 8-8 without Orton? No chance simms gets us to 8-8. But is it wrong for me to say that Orton is the reason we won some games?
                      I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
                      I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
                      I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
                      "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
                      God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
                      Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by andrewmlb View Post
                        It's really hard to get straight up answers around here. If we get rid of 100+ rec. 1100+ yds. and 10 tds, will our offense be worse? That is as fair as it gets.
                        Except you're not getting rid of 100+ rec, 1100+ yards, and 10 tds. You're getting rid of 100+ rec minus the rec of his replacement, 1100+ yards minus the yards of his replacement, and 10 tds minus the tds scored by the replacement. So if the replacement gets 80 rec, 1050 yards, and 7 tds, you're getting rid of 20+ rec, 50+yards, and 3 tds. Can the Broncos win with that? If they improve the running game and the defense, yes.

                        The truth is they may not even be giving up anything in production if the replacement produces more or if the combination of receivers increases the overall production. We won't know how losing Marshall will affect the offense or the Broncos' ability to win games until the games are played. We can only make arrogant assumptions that the offense will get worse and that the Broncos will lose more games because that's the easiest assumption to make when a bad offense loses it's best player. Well, they're going to lose their best player if what happened in the final week of the season is any kind of indication. They're going to have to find a way to increase their offensive production and win games without Marshall if they have indeed decided that he no longer fits into their plans.
                        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                        You Mad Bro?
                        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by broncolee View Post
                          Except you're not getting rid of 100+ rec, 1100+ yards, and 10 tds. You're getting rid of 100+ rec minus the rec of his replacement, 1100+ yards minus the yards of his replacement, and 10 tds minus the tds scored by the replacement. So if the replacement gets 80 rec, 1050 yards, and 7 tds, you're getting rid of 20+ rec, 50+yards, and 3 tds. Can the Broncos win with that? If they improve the running game and the defense, yes.

                          The truth is they may not even be giving up anything in production if the replacement produces more or if the combination of receivers increases the overall production. We won't know how losing Marshall will affect the offense or the Broncos' ability to win games until the games are played. We can only make arrogant assumptions that the offense will get worse and that the Broncos will lose more games because that's the easiest assumption to make when a bad offense loses it's best player. Well, they're going to lose their best player if what happened in the final week of the season is any kind of indication. They're going to have to find a way to increase their offensive production and win games without Marshall if they have indeed decided that he no longer fits into their plans.
                          Thank you for your answer, I agree with you completely. Cp's to you when I get more. The question now is do we have the pieces to fill that loss? I personally say we don't. We can address it through FA and the draft, but how much is that going to cost us? How much easier would it be to keep Marshall and already have that rock solid piece to our offense in place?
                          I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
                          I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
                          I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
                          "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
                          God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
                          Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by andrewmlb View Post
                            Very true, and when we do get rid of Marshall, I really hope one of those players can make up the difference. Do I believe they can? Probably not, but that's what were left with, they will have to do more.

                            I just think Brandon is taken for granted here a little bit. Top 5 wr's who get paid close to the league minimum don't grow on trees. You have to admit, without brandon, we would not have been 8-8.

                            I don't think that is such a bold statement. Without Orton we wouldn't be 8-8, or Doom. This applies to a lot of people. Would we be 8-8 without Orton? No chance simms gets us to 8-8. But is it wrong for me to say that Orton is the reason we won some games?
                            Everyone has a value to the team .I think everyones understand that Brandon is a playmaker but you also have to understand that passing game does not stop because a wideout leaves . It just doesnt and most players following a guy like Brandon play well simply because they know the ball will be coming there way a lot . Teams that lose guys like Brandon just dont stop throwing the ball they plug someone in and expect that player to produce and history has shown that they can be replaced .

                            Marshall is valuable but hes not invaluable.

                            If you look at the early games you would see quite a few guys stepping up .Marshall didnt catch his first td until week 3 but we were easily a top 10 passing team the first two weeks with over 500 passing yards.
                            "(Touchdowns) are the goal," Orton said. "You can run for as many yards as you want, throw for as many yards as you want, but you have to convert to seven points. I think we're going to be explosive, be dynamic, be versatile."

                            "Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," - Kyle Orton

                            Kyle Orton Army member #83 :logo: :smug:

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by KO8pectate View Post
                              Everyone has a value to the team .I think everyones understand that Brandon is a playmaker but you also have to understand that passing game does not stop because a wideout leaves . It just doesnt and most players following a guy like Brandon play well simply because they know the ball will be coming there way a lot . Teams that lose guys like Brandon just dont stop throwing the ball they plug someone in and expect that player to produce and history has shown that they can be replaced .

                              Marshall is valuable but hes not invaluable.

                              If you look at the early games you would see quite a few guys stepping up .Marshall didnt catch his first td until week 3 but we were easily a top 10 passing team the first two weeks with over 500 passing yards.
                              I agree that he's not invaluable. But he is by far our best player, that is in place. We have many other needs elsewhere, so if we get rid of Brandon we will have to address that need, which will in turn cost more and leave holes that could've been addressed otherwise, untouched.
                              I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
                              I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
                              I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
                              "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
                              God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
                              Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by KO8pectate View Post

                                If you look at the early games you would see quite a few guys stepping up .Marshall didnt catch his first td until week 3 but we were easily a top 10 passing team the first two weeks with over 500 passing yards.
                                Those numbers are skewed to a certain extent. 90 yds came on the immaculate deflection and we played a poor browns team in week 2. But you are correct.

                                I would prefer if Brandon wasn't targeted 15 times a game actually. I would like the ball spread a lot more. But in our offense right now, it seems pretty apparent that we target the same receiver over, and over again.

                                Just what he does y being on the field makes defenses change. Whether it's coverage or scheme he makes the defense game plan for him. Imo he is a good run block wr as well.
                                I adopt Peanut, mod of the stars
                                I adopt Brakshow, you mess with him, you answer to me
                                I adopt PAINTERDAVE, my conservative elephant
                                "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry." -James 1
                                God Bless Our Troops!!!!!
                                Adopted by the Greats: Peanut12and4, Freyaka, McSmashie Thanks Guys

                                Comment

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