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  • Originally posted by RunYouOver View Post
    Here's what, unfortunately, most fans don't realize.
    I'm sure most fans realize the reality of the situation. I think what *some* fans don't understand is that McDaniels wasn't hired to be the coach for life. He'll be given a fair chance but he's not on a long leash.

    McDaniels is here to stay for at least the duration of his contract (be it 3 or 4 seasons total).
    That's unlikely. Most coaches don't finish out the duration of their contract, as no one wants a head coach to enter the final year of their contract as a lame duck.

    At MOST, McDaniels will have the 2011 season to prove what he has. If 2011 winds up being a hold-out year, Bowlen will just cut the cord at the end of 2010 if things don't improve this year. You're not going to have McDaniels go into 2012 without an extension, and you're not going to extend him if 2010 winds up being a bad year.

    Even if we go 5-11 or 6-10 next year. Any worse than that, then he could be in trouble.
    Then explain to me how Wade Phillips went 9-7 and playoffs his first year, and 7-9 and shown the door his 2nd year?

    The reason? We'd be moving backwards another 3-5 years just by firing him. It's the same point I made when Shanny was fired, and it hasn't changed (because it's right).
    That's just not true.

    We've seen in the NFL several coaches come in and turn it around their first year.

    This notion of a 3-5 year rebuilding project in today's NFL is simply not true anymore.

    After I had a few months to think over the shanny firing, I supported it, because while we would've been in the playoffs, I really don't know if we could have won it all. And that's all that matters in the end.
    I agree to a point. However, no one is under any delusion that you MUST win the Super Bowl every year. Obviously any year you don't win the Super Bowl is technically a failure, but let's not kid ourselves - if we make the playoffs in 2008 Shanahan would likely have been coach in 2009. Point being, he didn't have to win the Super Bowl to save his job.

    So, Mr. Bowlen decided that he could afford to sacrifice a few years if it meant we would become legit title contenders. Which I think we will be in another season, but that's a different point.
    Really? Because quotes from Pat Bowlen indicate something completely different.

    If you know something about Pat Bowlen's mindset that differs from what he's emphatically stated publicly over and over again, please share.

    If you fire McD after he goes 6-10, you'd be doing the team an injustice. We'd have wasted two years and not really given him the entire chance he deserved. Unfortunately, it will almost always take patience to build a strong team, it won't happen over night, it doesn't usually happen over one season.
    Then once again, explain to me the decision making process that went into firing Wade Phillips after 2 years.

    Give him his contract to get it right, especially since I consider him to be a quality coach in the making.
    So because YOU consider him a quality head coach in the making, means he should be allowed 4 years to potentially destroy this team?

    The counter to that argument would be that you would let him go after 2 years, so that you AVOID him doing any further damage.

    2 things to remember: While everyone is all over the fact that he finished the season 2-8...he STARTED HIS COACHING CAREER OFF 6-0. What happened? Personally, I think teams adjusted to his gameplans better than he could adjust, which brings me to my second point:
    Let's be realistic though - the Broncos got very lucky in about half of those games to start 6-0, and once teams did catch on to what they were doing, McDaniels showed he couldn't adjust.

    Last season was his first ever as a NFL head coach.
    Agreed, which is why I stated that the 2010 season would be the make-or-break year with my opinion as to McDaniels' abilities.

    Since when have the expectations risen so high that in his first year ever, he's gotta be successful.
    I don't think it was so much that in his first year he *had to be* successful. But to be fair, McDaniels put a lot of unnecessary pressure on himself as a rookie head coach, and didn't come through.

    Cutler was overhyped, Marshall wanted out and we didn't want to pay him, and we wound up with significant value for them, when we probably shouldn't have gotten as much.
    I think the jury is still out on Cutler. Keep in mind that Cutler and Orton had the same int % going into 2009. I think it's fair to say that Cutler would have had a substantially better year had he stayed in Denver than he did by going to Chicago, a team void of talent offensively.

    All you need is an good O-Line, a solid defense, and the right system/coach, and you can succeed in the NFL. We have the Oline, we're building the defense, and I'm telling you, McDaniels is going to be the right coach for this team.
    YOU NEED A QUARTERBACK. Plain and simple. It's great to have a solid offensive line and solid defense, but everything starts and ends with the quarterback. If you don't have Peyton Manning behind center, you're already behind the 8-ball.

    The Broncos won't win a Super Bowl with Kyle Orton, or Brady Quinn for that matter, behind center. They may make the playoffs. They may win a game or two. But they're not elite quarterbacks, and you need an elite quarterback to be successful consistently in this league.
    Last edited by mojo0730; 04-18-2010, 03:35 PM.
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    • I will still be a fan!
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      • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
        I'm sure most fans realize the reality of the situation. I think what *some* fans don't understand is that McDaniels wasn't hired to be the coach for life. He'll be given a fair chance but he's not on a long leash.
        Never said he was the coach for life, I just think he'll be given 3-4 years.

        That's unlikely. Most coaches don't finish out the duration of their contract, as no one wants a head coach to enter the final year of their contract as a lame duck.

        At MOST, McDaniels will have the 2011 season to prove what he has. If 2011 winds up being a hold-out year, Bowlen will just cut the cord at the end of 2010 if things don't improve this year. You're not going to have McDaniels go into 2012 without an extension, and you're not going to extend him if 2010 winds up being a bad year.
        Most coaches don't, but Bowlen kept Shanny forever, even through struggling times, and of course I could be wrong, but IMO I don't see Bowlen firing him too quickly.


        That's just not true.

        We've seen in the NFL several coaches come in and turn it around their first year.

        This notion of a 3-5 year rebuilding project in today's NFL is simply not true anymore.


        Teams aren't all run by the same people. Some teams have a different style. And the coaches that turn it around in the first year are the coaches who already have a lot of the pieces in place to begin with. McDaniels had those pieces, but didn't think they were winners, and moved on without them. Teams may turn it around and have winning seasons, but they won't win a superbowl in a complete one year turnaround.


        So because YOU consider him a quality head coach in the making, means he should be allowed 4 years to potentially destroy this team?

        The counter to that argument would be that you would let him go after 2 years, so that you AVOID him doing any further damage.
        What I think, and what you think doesn't matter at all though. They're opinions, and not the important ones. The only one that matters is Bowlens.



        Yes, you need a QB, yes McD was a rookie head coach, we'll see what happens. I like his thought process, we'll see if it works out. If not, I'm wrong, I'll admit to it, and I'll be pissed. If I'm right....well, I'll be right.
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        • Originally posted by Boltheads View Post
          I know that a lot of people on here were not happy to see Shanny leave. And many more people were upset with the hiring of a young and inexperienced HC. He has completely dismantled a Top 5 offense, ran several good coaches out of town, and conducted a questionable (at best) draft last year.

          So, I was curious as to how much rope Mr. Bowlen is giving McD to play with. Would he consider his experiement of trying to replicate the Patriot's organization a failure after two years? Or, is Josh here for the long haul?
          Why 6-10 ? why not 0-16 ? 2-14 ? 1-15 ? Im curious as to how people pull these random numbers out ....


          and then start a discussion asking everyone what would a 3rd parties reaction be .
          "(Touchdowns) are the goal," Orton said. "You can run for as many yards as you want, throw for as many yards as you want, but you have to convert to seven points. I think we're going to be explosive, be dynamic, be versatile."

          "Perception is everything in this league, and a lot of times, unless you're a self-promoter, it can become negative," - Kyle Orton

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          • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
            Shanahan rarely took a chance on questionable guys.
            Im sorry, I just have to disagree with this. Here are some of the most recent players with character issues:

            Maurice Clarrett
            Brandon Marshall
            Travis Henry
            David Kircus
            Todd Sauerbrun (twice)
            Javon Walker

            These are just a few off the top of my head. If you add in guys that had attitude issues:

            Dre Bly (who had to "learn to be a Bronco")
            Ashley Lelie

            ....it makes the list longer.
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            • Originally posted by RunYouOver View Post
              Never said he was the coach for life, I just think he'll be given 3-4 years.
              And I disagree. Wade Phillips proved that Bowlen isn't as patient as you give him credit for. And Wade Phillips is a decent head coach.



              Most coaches don't, but Bowlen kept Shanny forever, even through struggling times, and of course I could be wrong, but IMO I don't see Bowlen firing him too quickly.
              Bowlen kept Shanahan 'forever' because Shanahan was his best friend, Shanahan helped him get his stadium, and Shanahan won him two Super Bowls.

              Plus, we think Shanahan *failed* simply because he didn't win another Super Bowl after the '98 season, but really he was very successful and seemingly had control up until the latter part of the 2006 season. So there wasn't any real reason to fire Shanahan up until things clearly weren't working anymore.

              Teams aren't all run by the same people. Some teams have a different style. And the coaches that turn it around in the first year are the coaches who already have a lot of the pieces in place to begin with. McDaniels had those pieces, but didn't think they were winners, and moved on without them. Teams may turn it around and have winning seasons, but they won't win a superbowl in a complete one year turnaround.
              Again, you're assuming things that have never been stated by anyone associated with the organization or from credible sources.

              Do you really think that Orton is more of a winner than Cutler? REALLY? That's not why Cutler isn't here anymore. Ditto for Marshall.

              What I think, and what you think doesn't matter at all though. They're opinions, and not the important ones. The only one that matters is Bowlens.
              I don't disagree. However, I just don't get where you see this infinite patience Bowlen has, when he's shown not to have such patience.

              Yes, you need a QB, yes McD was a rookie head coach, we'll see what happens. I like his thought process, we'll see if it works out. If not, I'm wrong, I'll admit to it, and I'll be pissed. If I'm right....well, I'll be right.
              Fair enough.
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              • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

                The Broncos won't win a Super Bowl with Kyle Orton, or Brady Quinn for that matter, behind center. They may make the playoffs. They may win a game or two. But they're not elite quarterbacks, and you need an elite quarterback to be successful consistently in this league.

                I disagree with Quinn, his ceiling is alot higher. Maybe in Denver things can turn around and he can make the move to the next level. We do not know either how much the Cleveland experience has damage Quinn.
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                • Originally posted by Luckyshot View Post
                  I disagree with Quinn, his ceiling is alot higher. Maybe in Denver things can turn around and he can make the move to the next level. We do not know either how much the Cleveland experience has damage Quinn.
                  I wasn't trying to knock on Quinn. I actually think he's a better prospect for us than Kyle Orton.

                  But being realistic, I don't think I'd call Quinn an elite quarterback or a quarterback who will consistently win you championships.

                  But we'll see.
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                  • Cmon Bolthead....this is two threads that you are actively pushing the "McD is not likely to succeed" button. If you are trying to stir up things, you aren't being very creative.

                    For the Bronco fans - argue about Josh as you will, but don't fall for a San Diego fan's nifty maneuvering to get us started. I'm sure the SD dudes are having a good laugh at our expense.

                    BTW Bh.......you should worry about under-achieving again this year.

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                    • I see a lot of people pointing toward the firing of Wade Phillips. I don't think it had anything to do with impatience so much as to do with the fact Shanny was available.
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                      • Originally posted by Bigoosh View Post
                        I see a lot of people pointing toward the firing of Wade Phillips. I don't think it had anything to do with impatience so much as to do with the fact Shanny was available.
                        Shanahan was available in 1993 too, and in fact was Bowlen's first consideration. But he turned it down.

                        But what's to say that a better prospect won't catch Bowlen's eye after 2010?
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                        • I think even if McDaniels went 0-16, he would be here at least for next season.

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                          • Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                            Shanahan was available in 1993 too, and in fact was Bowlen's first consideration. But he turned it down.

                            But what's to say that a better prospect won't catch Bowlen's eye after 2010?
                            If there was a candidate he thought was a better fit, Im sure he would make the change.

                            But the original topic really wasnt about that.
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                            • Originally posted by SmokeBassett View Post
                              I think even if McDaniels went 0-16, he would be here at least for next season.
                              LOL!

                              Please tell me you're joking. And if you're not, I'd love to hear your rationale.

                              Also, keep in mind guys that it's looking more and more that there will be no football in 2011. So why on Earth would you bring him back for 2012, if he goes 0-16 this season?
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                              • Originally posted by McSmashie View Post
                                If there was a candidate he thought was a better fit, Im sure he would make the change.

                                But the original topic really wasnt about that.
                                No it's not.

                                However, I just don't understand how fans think that it'd be ok to go backwards to 6-10, and assume that it's the natural order of things or that it's part of McDaniels' master plan.

                                I just don't see why fans are so bent on keeping a head coach we know almost nothing about for years and years, if we wind up doing worse next year than we did this year.
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